C'mon, somebody's gotta put a nail in that Blu-Ray coffin!

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by AaronSCH, Aug 3, 2006.

  1. AaronSCH

    AaronSCH Second Unit

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    Just a few positive notes for the faithful HD DVD Camp (In case you haven't been keeping score):

    "People in gaming and game publishing are drastically less excited about PlayStation 3 than they were a year ago, and also a few months back, and competition is looking much stronger," says David Cole, a market analyst at DFC Intelligence, a San Diego market-research firm focused on the videogame industry. "There is a lot of anticipation about PS3, but not a lot of software coming out over the next few months that would excite consumers. And the price point ($600) is staggering."

    "At $600, it will be just too expensive for the mainstream," said Mark Friedler, chief executive officer and publisher of GameDaily, a games Web site and publication. "The question is how many people will upgrade to PS3 because the software for it also will be more expensive."

    In head to head comparisons of "Training Day" which is now available in both formats: Sound quality is a knockout blow. The Blu-Ray release gets a ported or copied version of the standard definition Dolby Digital 5.1 mix. The HD-DVD title gets not only a superior Dolby Digital Plus 5.1 mix, but a Dolby TrueHD 5.1 soundtrack. Comparing the Dolby Digital Plus against the older mix quickly shows the fuller sound, truer bass and cleaner feeling that the new Plus mix is capable of. …with MPEG-2 in its corner and HD-DVD trained by VC-1, Blu-Ray was not quite ready for the fight. When it came time for Blu-Ray to cry out and be heard, HD-DVD pummeled him. -DVD Town

    …I just love that last line.
     
  2. Seth=L

    Seth=L Screenwriter

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    Blu Ray has a 5.1 uncompressed pcm track on their disks.

    Seth=L
     
  3. Paul Arnette

    Paul Arnette Cinematographer

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    Seth=L,

    I think that that is supposed to be the rule, but apparently the Blu-Ray Training Day is, hopefully, the exception as it did receive a ported DD 5.1 soundtrack.

    From High Def Digest:


    Blu-Ray continues to disappoint...
     
  4. Peter Overduin

    Peter Overduin Supporting Actor

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    I'm reading way too many excuses and hopeful exceptions abt BD movies. It's inherently superior, its proponents say, but are compelled to acknowldge the numerous deficiencies, not only in the disks themselves, but also the technical specs regarding the audio capabilities of the hardware itself compared to HD-DVD.

    Nobody has to put the nail in Blu Ray...it will crucify itself with inferior product; overpriced product; incompetent management and marketing and the internet.
     
  5. Paul Arnette

    Paul Arnette Cinematographer

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    Peter Overduin,

    Please don't take what I wrote to be an excuse for Blu-Ray. I own an HD DVD player, and I don't plan on buying a Blu-Ray player anytime soon. I'm not a Blu-Ray supporter, yet, even still, while there is a chance it could be the winner of this format war, I would still like to see them put their best foot forward. For if they don't, and they still win, then we're all losers.
     
  6. Pete T C

    Pete T C Second Unit

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    DD TrueHD & DTS-HD are better than uncompressed PCM. The same lossless quality without eating up space/bandwidth. Every Blu-Ray title with uncompressed PCM has looked substandard thus far.
     
  7. Ronald Epstein

    Ronald Epstein Founder
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    Listen...

    I own HD-DVD and love it!

    I'm not overly crazy about having to buy Blu-Ray nor about
    its pricepoint.

    However, it's safe to say that the format hasn't really been
    launched yet and we are moving to put the final nails in its
    coffin.

    Come October, Sony will be releasing their flagship player.
    Fox and Disney have a big Q4 rollout, and I suppose Sony will
    add some exciting releases to their line-up.

    As much as I would love to think that my HD-DVD investment
    is secured as the "sure thing," I think it would only be fair to
    wait until Blu-Ray has its official launch before we declare it dead.

    My biggest gripe with these formats is with the studios who
    side with either one format or the other. I wish Fox, for instance,
    would have agreed to release their titles initially in both formats.
    At least Warner Brothers is catering to both formats, and for that,
    I am most appreciative.
     
  8. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    That's incorrect! The BRD of Underworld Evolution has a terrific looking video presentation.



    Crawdaddy
     
  9. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

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    Even with all the negativity surrounding BR at present, I will still be investing in a player (probably Sony) because I see the future as being quite different as many have said, because of BR50, better compression etc etc etc... things can only get much better.
     
  10. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

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    ˜Even if there were reason to barrack for the early demise of one format (perhaps you got good odds from a bookie), a prediction as to a game machine’s demise made well before it is due to be released and one comparison made of a single movie released in both formats (and in the very early stages for both formats) should not cause one to break out the Bollinger.

    I’ll make my toasts when I have both formats up and running in my home and am enjoying both.
     
  11. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

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    Man, this whole thing is really starting to feel like deja vu. It was just a few short years ago that many people wanted to see the demise of dvd too, those that had large laserdisk collections especially. I remember all too well the "crappy picture" quality of some of the early dvd's too, like Backdraft for instance and I am very glad that they are finally re-doing that dvd for what i consider to be a fine film indeed. Anyway, I can understand from the point of view of someone that has invested in the other format, and then seeing the problems of blu-ray at the early stages, the desire to see BR's demise, but I just do not see that happening for a long time if ever, until the next generation surplants it!
     
  12. AaronSCH

    AaronSCH Second Unit

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    I've picked my "candidate" for various reasons and I hope it wins. There is nothing wrong with a little chiding... Blu-Ray made many claims that it has failed to deliver on thus far… I happen to think the "war" is a good one because ultimately it will drive down the cost to consumers and make both formats focus on quality. You already have the Blu-Ray camp looking to make changes. That is a good thing. Much is being learned by Samsung's early mistakes as well as the first uninspired software titles. The tables could turn and HD DVD may be trying to play catch up at some point as well (I doubt it though).
     
  13. Marvin

    Marvin Screenwriter

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    I don't think anyone is being well served by a format war.
     
  14. Joseph Bolus

    Joseph Bolus Cinematographer

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    I have to agree with Ron here. There would be no problem with a format war as long as all the studios supported each format.

    It really gripes me that I may have to invest in Blu-ray just to be able to get Cars, POTC: Dead Man's Chest, X-MEN 3, and other Summer blockbusters in HD.

    Right now, Blu-ray seemingly has more studio support than HD-DVD; and yet the latter format is providing a superior HD experience at a very nice price point. It just doesn't seem right to me that the studios are trying to force Blu-ray down our throats with this tactic. After all, they were all a part of the "DVD Forum" which chose the Toshiba system as the HD successor to the DVD format (which is the reason Toshiba can use the 'HD-DVD' moniker). Now I realize that Sony decided not to submit Blu-ray to the "DVD Forum" as an official proposal (perhaps it wasn't ready yet?); but it still seems to me that, as a result of their participation in the Forum, every studio has a moral obligation to at least release product in the HD-DVD format. And yet Sony, MGM, Fox, and Disney apparently will not support the format in any way, shape, or form. (A Fox executive even recently stated that the format war was only a war in the press!)
     
  15. AaronSCH

    AaronSCH Second Unit

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    I happen to think we are all being served. Do you honestly think Sony would care about its compression codec, pricing, software and overall quality if HD DVD wasn't breathing down its neck? Competition is ALWAYS good and it will drive faster innovation, lower cost to consumers and a stronger heir to DVD overall. The studios will follow whatever direction the consumer takes them. We have the power to decide the future of high definition media in our back pocket.
     
  16. Ed St. Clair

    Ed St. Clair Producer

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    Hum. I thought the different forums for the two warring formats where to allow for open discourse of ones format of choice?

    Without allowing false information, of coarse!!!

    From the posts from "The Powers That Be" (thanks, guys!), it clearly seems HTF wishes to be open to both formats co-existing now.

    Would it be in the best interest of this entire forum to eliminate the two format specific hardware forums?
    It was always weird to me to have three HiDef hardware forums & one HiDef software forum (I think of HTF as a software forum first, just look at how many visitors are on the SD software forum at one time compared to all the other forums).

    Maybe one thing is clear, we are not going to win the format war for one side or the other with out & out bashing (w/o facts).

    I do find the subject matter of the thread OK.
    Maybe it's the title? ;-)

    From the title (and the forum), I thought this would be about the need/desire for another CEC to release a HD DVD player!

    This is almost, subject matter/thread folly, for a gaming thread.
    Although, the PS3, "has" always been toted as the BD Trojan Horse.

    I don't know anymore... :-(
    Just bring on the Uni's & killer HD discs!!!
     
  17. Cees Alons

    Cees Alons Moderator
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    You're trying to tell us you can't read?

    These two forums are for owners of the respective players and members wanting to become that who want to ask them some questions.

    Read the descriptions of the subforums and my warning post stuck up above, please.


    Cees
     
  18. Ed St. Clair

    Ed St. Clair Producer

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    I'm trying to tell you I can't do "anything" (right)!!! ;-)
    I know what each of the three HiDef Hardware Forums are for & have read the rules for posting in each.
    When I read this thread for the first time, it seemed to me that posters were saying it was inappropriate, if not fruitless, to put down one format over another.
    I will re-read this thread.
    Wish me luck!
    Thanks.
     
  19. Edwin-S

    Edwin-S Producer
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    If there were no format war (BD non-existent) Toshiba's HD-A1 would have cost 1200 dollars not 599 dollars. All of the early purchasers would have been on this board telling everyone else what a fantastic player it was and for a relatively "cheap" price point. Thanks to the format war, HD-DVD supporters can point fingers at how overpriced the Blu-ray format appears to be.

    The format war has been beneficial for consumers, because it has forced both sides to compromise. HD-DVD was forced to adopt a blue laser system, while BD had to compromise and add support for a variety of new codecs.

    HD-DVD appears to have the early advantage because of its low price (too low, IMO, for 1st gen product) and good reviews for the early software releases. BD does have a lot of ground to make up and the first step in doing that is to dump MPEG2 as fast as possible. As to price, BD is going to be at a disadvantage for sometime to come, because they have to recoup the costs of new tooling and production lines. Toshiba is well aware of that fact which is why I think they set the price of HD-DVD as low as they did

    To recap: I would say that the format war has served the consumer very well. Whether it ends up serving the main competitors in the present jousting match remains to be seen. At present, from a manufacturers perspective, I would say the format war has been somewhat of a disaster.
     
  20. Ed St. Clair

    Ed St. Clair Producer

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    I would agree with that! :)
    Just, if it is indeed a "disaster" for CEC's, then how are they going to justify building players from either warring format?
    And if its a disaster for manufactures, how is that good for us, the consumer?
    With a format war, I don't see any easy answers. :-(
     

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