UHD Review Close Encounters of the Third Kind UHD Review (1 Viewer)

[JoshZ]

You never know; someday Disney may buy Universal and Columbia (or heck, all of Sony) and fold all their respective IPs into its mega-multiverse. E.T. and the Close Encounters aliens will get some Jedi training and team up to battle Galactus or something.

E.T. is already an official part of the Star Wars universe. You can see some of his people in the Galactic Senate during The Phantom Menace.

 

[James Luckard]

Roy is not consciously sacrificing anything in the finale. He's so far down a psychological rabbit hole that he's not thinking about his family, his country, the good of mankind, or, frankly, even himself. He's just giving another scratch to an obsessive itch. Analogizing Roy to a soldier who makes a choice to sacrifice for his country does not work at all for me because Roy is not making a choice. A more appropriate analogy would be to an addict who alienates his family and thereafter overdoses with a smile on his face.

I also strongly disagree that his wife breaks any marriage vows, that she "abandons" him, or that Roy's family is somehow the villain of the film. Roy checks out from the family well before they leave. Even during the first scene in the Neary household, before the aliens show up in Muncie, Roy treats his family like a ball and chain, and he presumptuously expects them to want to do whatever he wants to do. He's a self-absorbed man-child from the beginning. By the time Ronnie walks out, Roy is behaving erratically, he's lost his job, he shows no interest in regaining employment to provide for his family, he's trashing the house, he's destroying his neighbors' property, he's scaring his kids, and Ronnie makes a justifiable decision as a mother to get her children away from him before he can inflict further psychological and emotional harm on them.

It's one of my all-time favorite films, but as I get older, the more I realize that it's a tragedy told as a fairy tale.

I'm sorry that I'm so late to this conversation, and I'm not trying to derail things, but this was a really interesting discussion, and I'd like to briefly add my thoughts.

I completely agree. I've always found it fascinating that many people blame Ronnie, in the exact same way many people look at Breaking Bad and blame Skyler, for being a killjoy/spoilsport.

In both cases, the father is the protagonist/"hero" of the story, but in both cases, the father is going down a self-involved/self-destructive road that's also destructive to his wife and kids. The wife wanting no part of this, and fighting him every step of the way, is the sane reaction, showing she puts the kids ahead of herself.

I was absolutely horrified by all the anti-Skyler stuff that appeared online when Breaking Bad aired, even attacking the actress, to the point where Anna Gunn had to write an editorial in the NY Times defending herself.

Similarly, in CE3K, Ronnie abandoning Roy is a painful but wise choice that character has to make. I applaud her for doing it. As for the kids, they're too young to blame.

Also, it's important to note that, while she may be shrill, and while she and the kids aren't supportive of his quest in the first half, I think that's a very intentional writing choice. Even at that young age, Spielberg's story sense was clearly sharp enough that he realized, on some level, that Roy abandoning a warm, supportive wife and warm, supportive children, would be unforgivable. So Spielberg intentionally wrote the wife and kids to be as shrill and annoying as possible, and directed Teri Garr to play the role as gratingly as possible. And yet, despite that, every time I see CE3K, I'm entirely on their side.

In the end, Roy doesn't give his wife and kids a second thought after they vanish, halfway through the film. They're never mentioned again. It's as if they no longer exist. If he displayed even SOME hesitation about leaving earth, some look to a prop representing them at the end, I might hate him less as a character, but he doesn't. I can see why Spielberg feels he's grown since he made the movie, because the film similarly doesn't give Ronnie and the kids a second thought after they vanish. We never see what becomes of them, because it's irrelevant to Spielberg too.

And it's not like Roy has some unique skill that will save humanity or something, it's not like the aliens need him more than any other person. His sacrifice isn't helping his family, or the rest of humanity. He simply wants to go see their world. His drive is entirely selfish.

It's fascinating to watch this and War of the Worlds back to back and see how Spielberg's view of fatherhood changed after having kids. The whole core of WotW is a self-involved dad learning to put his kids before himself.

I respect CE3K enormously as a masterpiece of world cinema, but I find Roy to be one of the most loathsome characters in pop culture. I find it fascinating how many different takes there are about the film, especially because the film was so clearly personal to Spielberg, and because his own opinion of it has changed so drastically since he had children of his own.

 

[Tino]

I think we should start discussing E.T. In the Close Encounters thread to be fair.

 

[James Luckard]

I just love that everyone here is so passionate and knowledgeable about films that an intelligent discussion about one film can morph into a discussion about a related film.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I've always found it fascinating that many people blame Ronnie, in the exact same way many people look at Breaking Bad and blame Skyler, for being a killjoy/spoilsport.

With respect, I don’t see these as being remotely the same things.

Close Encounters is the story of mankind beginning its journey into the stars, learning that it is not alone, and taking its first steps to find its place in the universe. There have always been missions of exploration throughout the entirety of human history, and it has generally always been perceived as a noble sacrifice to pursue explorations that benefit one’s country or society at large at the expense of one’s personal obligations.

Breaking Bad is the story of a man who, upon receiving a terminal diagnosis, reacts by transforming into a violent psychopath, responsible both for murdering people with his own hands, making toxic illicit drugs that destroy the lives of countless others, while subjecting his family to domestic violence.

Roy’s actions are in search of something outside of himself; Walter White’s actions are to benefit something within himself. I don’t believe they are remotely comparable positions. I do not believe Roy’s family treated him right; but I also do not believe Skylar White was in the wrong for being aghast at her husband’s criminal turn.

For me, one of the crucial pieces of that puzzle is that Roy’s family does not provide him any support, compassion or understanding of the profound life changing experience he had. I think it would have been entirely possible for his wife to not believe that aliens are real, while simultaneously believing that something did happen to her husband. You don’t have to necessarily believe your partner to be supportive of them. I think the film presents a fair amount of evidence even before the arrival of the aliens that this is not a perfect marriage and that they are not ideal partners for each other; had there never been aliens, I don’t think that marriage would have lasted happily ever after anyhow.

We as audience members do have the scale weighted somewhat in Roy’s favor; we have the objective knowledge that the thing Roy saw was real, while Roy doesn’t have the same kind of proof to offer his family.

I think that one’s take on Close Encounters, to a certain extent, depends on whether one views space exploration and the possibility of meeting other species as being a worthwhile and noble endeavor that justifies sacrifice. I do. It also depends if one accepts that Roy hasn’t merely witnessed an unexplainable phenomenon but was profoundly changed not only by what he saw, but the implications that discovery has for the entirety of our way of life. I do. Therefore, I see Roy’s actions as being justifiable.

It’s also worth considering that Roy didn’t just happen upon the aliens; he was chosen to some extent. Not everyone who encountered the aliens came away with the same visions at the same level of intensity; not everyone was compelled to look further. Some might label that an unhealthy obsession on Roy’s part, but I believe the film gives at least equal weight to the possibility that Roy is having an experience that cannot be fully quantified or explained by our human understanding of the events.

So while I can understand why Spielberg feels differently now than he did then, I don’t interpret what I’m seeing onscreen from the perspective he has now taken.

 

[James Luckard]

We all have wildly diverging opinions of CE3K, and this is exactly why I can see that it's a true masterpiece and a seminal work of cinematic art. It's not just popcorn entertainment, it's exploring the human condition, and, more brilliantly, it's doing it through a form that managed to work as popcorn entertainment as well, so it connected with a HUGE audience.

I totally respect your opinion too, I don't think there's really a right or wrong position about this film, especially when its own creator has had such polar-opposite opinions about it.

I do think, however, that Ronnie doesn't support Roy precisely because Spielberg, the clever writer, knows that his audience will only stay with Roy if Ronnie is so profoundly annoying that we're glad to see her go. And yet, even with all the writing and acting choices designed to distance us from her, every time I see the film, I'm 1000% on her side.

I'm still able to enjoy most of the film because I can follow it through Jillian's perspective, and I'm HUGELY glad Spielberg chose to add her as a co-protagonist. The movie is all too often spoken about only as Roy's journey, but it's hers too.

I love when she finds her son and is satisfied, and goes home. Roy's journey doesn't really do anything at all for me, except annoy me. I do respect space exploration, but the film never suggests that Roy has any unique skills that might help humanity in that field.

Also, while Roy and Walter White are very different in many ways, what I meant was that both of them decide to pursue entirely selfish goals, which become destructive to their families. Their wives see this, and fight against this, and try to stop it. Both routinely get condemned or criticized by fans for not being more supportive.

I'm not sure I agree about Roy's goals being outside himself. His journey seems profoundly selfish, and I think that's where we differ enormously in our readings of the film. Obviously, they're both our honest personal opinions about a work of art, so neither is right or wrong. Again, the film is a fascinating Rorschach test for those who view it, a sign of a great work of art.

 

[James Luckard]

I'll gladly take this conversation into another thread, I was just afraid that if I did so, nobody here would follow, and there have been some really great posts here

I hope the ET fans don't mind this too much, they're closely related films, and the CE3K posts are easy enough to skip past.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Now, you guys can discuss "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" to your heart's content.

 

[dpippel]

Thanks Robert. Another option, of course, is for someone to create a NEW thread for discussion centered on comparing these two films, their themes, and their merits.

 

[WillG]

As I've grown older, I've grown to sympathize a lot more with Neary's wife and children.

I think the main issue I have with Ronnie aside from the fact that she’s not, at least of what we see of her, very nice, is that she knows Roy was not the only one to have claimed to see the UFOs. She even cuts an article about it out of the paper. That alone should at least have more belief in Roy. There is actually a deleted scene that didn’t make it into any cut of the movie where the cops that were chasing the UFOs are typing their reports later on at the police station and their supervisor especially mocks them and has them cease their reports. Maybe that should have been included to explain why law enforcement seems to drop investigation on the ufos

And while I appreciate others thoughts about Ronnie, there is one other moment that doesn’t work in her favor. There is a moment where after Roy builds the big sculpture, he gets a call from Ronnie, this call makes it clear that Ronnie is either declaring an intention for separation or that at least is not coming back for the foreseeable future. Roy momentarily comes to his senses and pleads with her to discuss the matter in person to which she apparently hangs up on him. Ironically if she kept the conversation going, Roy might have missed the news broadcast showing Devils Tower

 

[Robert Crawford]

Thanks Robert. Another option, of course, is for someone to create a NEW thread for discussion centered on comparing these two films, their themes, and their merits.

Well, that’s up to you guys to create such a thread.

 

[dpippel]

Well, that’s up to you guys to create such a thread.

I think you meant THOSE guys.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I think you meant THOSE guys.

You're the one that suggested it!

 

[Kyle_D]

Also, while Roy and Walter White are very different in many ways, what I meant was that both of them decide to pursue entirely selfish goals, which become destructive to their families. Their wives see this, and fight against this, and try to stop it. Both routinely get condemned or criticized by fans for not being more supportive.

Exactly.

I see a lot of people who project their own altruistic values onto Roy, and I get it. As audience members, we want to see the aliens and Roy wants to see the aliens, so our interests are aligned, and we're pre-disposed to justify his behavior and react negatively to any character (like Ronnie) who doesn't want Roy/us to see the aliens. But, as written, Roy's motives aren't at all altruistic. He's just self-absorbed and destructively obsessed, and his self-absorption predates his first encounter with the aliens. Further, if his destructive obsession was "implanted" by the aliens, as the film suggests, then the aliens aren't all that altruistic either.

Again, I don't mean this as criticism of the film. For me, it's a feature, not a bug, and it makes the film much more interesting and layered. I actually think Spielberg's post-fatherhood impulse to moralize and clarify everything for the audience has led to weaker films. I can have a "conversation" with CE3K because the film asks questions and allows for ambiguity, whereas films like Amistad, Munich, The Post, and even Minority Report are so busy puffing up their own righteous sense of authority and spoon-feeding the audience pat answers that they generally leave me feeling like I got a lecture from a well-meaning dad. He's still a master craftsman, but after Schindler's List, he stopped allowing his subject matter to speak for itself.

I think the main issue I have with Ronnie aside from the fact that she’s not, at least of what we see of her, very nice, is that she knows Roy was not the only one to have claimed to see the UFOs.

Can you blame her though? Put yourself in her shoes. She has three young kids. The film implies that money is tight. Her husband is the sole breadwinner for the family, but he loses his job and shows no interest in regaining employment because he's obsessed with aliens. Further, he never once shows any interest in her thoughts, feelings, anxieties or interests throughout the film, nor does he do anything to help her with the kids. I'd feel pretty resentful of the aliens too, and I'm not sure I'd be that chipper either.

 

[Worth]

…I actually think Spielberg's post-fatherhood impulse to moralize and clarify everything for the audience has led to weaker films. I can have a "conversation" with CE3K because the film asks questions and allows for ambiguity, whereas films like Amistad, Munich, The Post, and even Minority Report are so busy puffing up their own righteous sense of authority and spoon-feeding the audience pat answers that they generally leave me feeling like I got a lecture from a well-meaning dad.

I feel the same way. I think his best films have a little bit of a mean streak in them. Just about everything from The Color Purple on has tended toward the saccharin.

 

[Kyle_D]

I feel the same way. I think his best films have a little bit of a mean streak in them. Just about everything from The Color Purple on has tended toward the saccharin.

I'd say the over-sweetening tendency started with Kick the Can. Whenever he attempts to deal with social, political, philosophical, or historical subject matter, he generally adheres to the theory that "A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down." I wish he realized that he doesn't need to administer medicine; it's not in his skillset.

Schindler's List is the notable exception where--for the most part--he trusted the subject matter to speak for itself without editorializing, and even the much criticized breakdown at the end works for me as emotional catharsis for everything that came before. That film also has the best screenplay he ever directed.

 

[Worth]

I'd say the over-sweetening tendency started with Kick the Can...

I forgot about that one - probably one of the worst things he’s done, though he did follow it up with Temple of Doom.

 

[MartinP.]

Whether you see the interior of the ship or not, having Roy abandon his family to take a joyride on the spaceship crosses the line from Roy being a complicated character to being a loathsome one.

What about having a wife that completely disregards what he's going through and doesn't even try to understand him. What you wrote makes it sound like he chose to go to a rock concert and not something profoundly unlike anything people have known before. I realize Neary's obsession isn't as clear cut as joining the military for some greater good or something like that, he doesn't exactly know what's happening, but he is trying to find out.

Sometimes people have obsessions because they just want to find out something. That's what's led to some of the best discoveries. I'm sure it's also caused family problems. It's hardly the same thing as Close Encounters, but Jake Gyllenhall's character's obsession in Zodiac leads to his wife moving out with the kids. Obsessions can take on a life of their own with people. Presented with what Neary is going through, how do you think he should've resolved it?

I think I remember this TV Guide description of Close Encounters when it came on TV: A man abandons his family and goes on an alien joyride.