Clerks X: Missing sound cues?

Discussion in 'DVD' started by Eric_B_C, Oct 5, 2004.

  1. Eric_B_C

    Eric_B_C Stunt Coordinator

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    I do NOT own the prior DVD of Clerks. My copy is the VHS release. I am CERTAIN that the new mix on the tenth anniversary edition has sound effects missing, most noticeably when Dante is opening the store.

    I know the hideously looped dialogue from the little girl was mentioned (it sounds awful) but I don't recall reading this anywhere.

    Am I going mad?
     
  2. Bill GrandPre

    Bill GrandPre Cinematographer

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    Actually, the little girl's dialogue is not looped. The new 5.1 mix restores the original production dialogue. Technology has allowed the filmmakers to use that production sound, but it was unusable at the time. The 2.0 theatrical mix featured a version of the line dubbed by Marilyn Ghigliotti. In any case, the new 5.1 soundtrack is a new soundtrack, regardless of the source of said sounds. The 2.0 track that we're all familiar with should have been included. I'm a huge Kevin Smith fan but it's undeniably hypocritical of Smith to criticize George Lucas's alterations in the same restoration featurette that glorifies the technology that has allowed a closer approximation of the original intention to be presented.
     
  3. Tim_Stack

    Tim_Stack Second Unit

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    Are you kidding? How in the world does a different voice - with the same line - change anything with the film itself? There's a big difference between a few tweaks and what Lucas did that changed fundamental aspects of characters and other changes, notably the Jabba's palace music scene. That just turned it into a half-assed cartoon with that CGI and "funny" Motown crap.
     
  4. Adam_ME

    Adam_ME Supporting Actor

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    I agree that Lucas' butchery is in an entirely different league. A better comparison would be WB's Superman DVD and its brand new 5.1 track. As much as I love that disc, it feels incomplete without the original soundtrack(not to mention the theatrical cut).

    And the same goes for Clerks X. It's an incredible set and is in the running for DVD Of the Year. But it wouldn't have been that difficult to include the 2.0 track.
     
  5. Vincent_P

    Vincent_P Screenwriter

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    Regarding the opening montage, Kevin was never happy with the overdone foley work in that scene- said foley was added at the insistance of Harvey Weinstein, and Kevin never liked it, so that would be why it was removed for the remix. The scene was always intended to play as a musical montage without sound effects, but Harvey had all that overdone foley added right before the film hit theaters.

    And Bill, re: the little girl's "Happy scrappy" line- there WAS no on-set recording of that bit of dialogue. I know because the little girl in that scene is my neice Ashley (age 3 1/2 at the time, now about to turn 15), and we couldn't get her to say the line during shooting. So, they had to record it in post, and Marilyn did it for the theatrical sound mix. Since the line was never recorded on set originally, the replacement on the CLERKS X dvd can only be a new bit of ADR.

    Vincent
     
  6. Eric_B_C

    Eric_B_C Stunt Coordinator

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    We'd have lost the 2.0 track in Canada anyway probably to fit their precious French track on.

    So it's the original dialogue is it? Interesting. It just sounds REALLY out of place. Probably because I'm so used to the original one.

    I'm guessing nobody else can confirm/deny my missing sound effects?
     
  7. Jay Gunn

    Jay Gunn Stunt Coordinator

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    I believe Vincent just did, and if anyone on HTF should know, it's him.
     
  8. Eric_B_C

    Eric_B_C Stunt Coordinator

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    He did? I shall check that out.

    And yes, if anyone would know, it'd be VP[​IMG] I was posting that from my other computer, and that post wasn't there when I hit reply[​IMG]

    Thanks for the answer Vincent. (OR Vince, Vinnie, whichever you prefer.[​IMG]) I was SURE I read that the dialogure was ADR'ed.

    As for the opening, if that's what Kevin wanted, I can get used to it. So long as it's not a screw up, I'm happy[​IMG]
     
  9. Bill GrandPre

    Bill GrandPre Cinematographer

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    I believe Scott Mosier and Kevin Smith say that the dialogue is production audio on the sound restoration featurette. I honestly believe that Vincent would be more knowledgable about a detail such as this (I've seen him post on several online forums and his technical knowledge is incredibly impressive), especially considering that the girl in question is his niece, I just thought I'd pass along where I heard my info. I'm sure you're right, they don't call you the View Askew Historian for nothing.
     
  10. Eric_B_C

    Eric_B_C Stunt Coordinator

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    I've not watched that part of the disk yet. My plans to listen to the original commentary fell through due to my network going kablammo in this machine so I had to fix it.

    I think I would believe Vincent. Not just because he's posting here[​IMG] But because in the past on Smith's other stuff, I've seen/heard him correct Kevin about stuff.
     
  11. Benjamin Ricci

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    But what's weird is during the commentary for the rough IFFM cut, Kevin is making fun of the akward "Happy Scrappy" line, I guess the one on the Clerks X Theatrical DVD is the same as the one used in the IFFM cut as well. Weird, since he didn't seem to like the original line reading during the commentary (neither do I, it seems really out of place if you're familiar with the theatrical sound mix and dialogue) that they would replace Marilyn's ADR line with THAT one for the theatrical cut on the new DVD.

    -Ben
     
  12. Eric_B_C

    Eric_B_C Stunt Coordinator

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    Not watched the other cut yet. Trying to do the disks in order. Which means I still have to watch the theatrical one twice[​IMG]

    I think Marilyn did an awesome job on that line as I never once believed it was anything other than the little girl saying it.
     
  13. Vincent_P

    Vincent_P Screenwriter

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    A bit off topic, but a funny story re: my neice and the saying of that line:

    Her mother (Connie, the woman in the scene with her) and I coached Ashley prior to taking her to the "set" (i.e., RST Video), and the 3 1/2 year old Ashley was comfortably saying "Happy Scrappy!" before we went to actually shoot the scene.

    WELL, we get on set, and Ashley refuses to mutter a word, so Kevin shoots the scene, and Connie says "She loves it" over a bit of silence where Ashley was supposed to speak the line, then we wrap the shooting and drive home...

    And on the way home, no more than 10 minutes after shooting the scene where she wouldn't mutter a sound, Ashley suddenly spurts out in the car at the top of her lungs, "Happy Scrappy!". That made us all laugh.

    ALSO, a bit more on-topic re: the replaced line:

    I haven't watched the original edit in quite some time (I misplaced my old VHS tape of it, and do not have a copy of the new CLERKS X dvd set yet, as apparently Disney/Miramax doesn't believe in sending out complimentary copies of DVDs to folks who actually participate in their making and provide them with material for inclusion therein, but I digress...), but as I recall, during shooting Kevin had the little girl who played the cigarette purchaser record the line "Happy scrappy" on-set since my neice hadn't said it, and that recording was used for the film-festival version of CLERKS before Marilyn re-recorded the line for the theatrical release. I'm GUESSING that maybe during the sound re-editing at Skywalker for the CLERKS X re-mix, Scott Mosier came across that original recording of "Happy scrappy" by that 4-year old girl on the original production sound tapes and used it for the remix, hence them saying that it was production sound from the era as opposed to Marilyn's ADR or new ADR. Technically, that would be correct- the line would've been recorded during production, but it was STILL a form of ADR, since the girl who spoke the line was not the actual girl in the scene, plus it wasn't recorded on an ADR stage, which is probably why it doesn't match as well as Marilyn's professionally recorded ADR version of the "Happy scrappy" line does.

    Vincent
     
  14. Eric_B_C

    Eric_B_C Stunt Coordinator

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    That's moronic that Disney didn't supply you with copies. I always figured those at the top involved with the production got free copies. If I could make a copy, I'd send you the VHS version. But since it's the only source I have of the original theatrical sound mix, I'm not letting that one out of my grubby little paws.

    I first saw Clerks in 1996 in England. Purely because a friend said about this movie called Clerks where "There's this funny little speech about Star Wars". Ah... Kevin's made a few hundred bucks off me because of that friend.

    Watched the trivia track tonight and it says that Jeff wouldn't say the movie titles in front of your niece. Which is funny, because that implies everyone else was quite happy for him to rattle off that list in front of her![​IMG]

    I really can't stand the new voice saying "Happy Scrappy". If someone asked me to guess which one was said by Marilyn, I'd guess the new one as it sounds more like an adult said it![​IMG] And if you're story is right, it's a four year old...

    Oh, another apparent change. Could be my lameass TV (since my lovely big stereo one went kablammo), but the funny sounds when Randal is watching "Return of the Jedi" seem a LOT quieter.

    And it's still hard to get used to that opening montage without sound. If for no other reason than there's no sound cue that makes Dante turn around and get his money back from the paper vending thing. (I just realised I have no idea what their technical name is[​IMG])
     
  15. Vincent_P

    Vincent_P Screenwriter

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    Well, the thing about the porno titles was, most of us were pretty leery about actually saying those titles in front of Ashely, so we blocked the scene so it would go into close-up on Jeff before he said the first "bad" title (so he could do those takes without anybody else in the room), but the funny thing was, Connie couldn't really react to nothing being said when we shot the reverse angle on her listening to Jeff reading off those titles, so I was standing behind the camera in Jeff's place during Connie's close-up and actually DID read off those titles in front of my young neice! Connie basically said, "Whatever, she doesn't know what you're saying and she's just looking at the TV screen anyway and isn't paying attention", so it wasn't a big deal, but me actually reading off those awful porn titles helped Connie to react a bit more.

    Vincent
     
  16. Gregory E

    Gregory E Second Unit

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    That's a funny story Vincent.

    Thanks. [​IMG]
     
  17. Benjamin Ricci

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    In any event, the "new" Happy Scrappy line is just plain awkward for those of us who have watched this movie with the theatrical mix a million times. At least it's no digital Jabba, so I can live with it.

    -Ben
     
  18. ZackR

    ZackR Supporting Actor

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    Question for you guys - I used to watch this film a bit back in VHS days, but never got around to picking up the DVD. A local store has several copies of the old DVD release, would it be worth picking it up along with the new "X" release? Is this sound thing a big issue? Thanks for your input!
     
  19. Benjamin Ricci

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    No, it's not a huge issue at all, IMO. The Happy Scrappy line is a minimal annoyance, but other than that there's really no reason at all to keep the old DVD.
     
  20. Eric_B_C

    Eric_B_C Stunt Coordinator

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    I find it funny the old DVD... Cheapest I've ever seen it in Canada was $38! And the new 3 disker which, I believe, has most if not all the features of that release, is $10 cheaper.

    Fun story Vincent[​IMG] Despite having seen Clerks about 20-30 times, that scene still slays me. "Men Alone 2: The KY Connection" is just classic!

    And no Zack, don't dismiss this awesome new release just because of that dodgy ADR line. It's a 2 second annoyance. It'll stick out like a sore thumb every time you watch it though[​IMG] But as Benjamin said, it's no digital Jabba. And it's CERTAINLY not a "Greedo shoots first"[​IMG]

    I believe the phrase is "cutting your nose to spite your face"[​IMG]

    So get the new release. WELL worth it.
     

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