Choosing a TRUE subwoofer (1 Viewer)

[Bob_Collins]

I would also look into Mackie's HRS 120 12inch studio sub. extention flat to 21Hz, at 19 Hz -3db. Considered one of the best subs among recording industry and used by a lot of higher end studios. Its about 1250 MSRP I think and has both XLR balanced and RCA unbalanced circuits. THX PM3 certified too.

I am definitely going have to check into this guy. It looks awesome from your description and the info you posted, and if the price is what you said you thought it was, it may well be a bargain.

Thanks to everyone that responded, and recommended. I am looking forward to more comments too, so keep 'em coming!

Also, I may be posting this or a similar message on other forums, so if you see it there also, be kind and don't holler at me for posting it everywhere. I am just trying to gather enough information to make an educated decision, based on the input of as many different and (hopefully) valid/educated sources as possible.

 

[Brian Bunge]

Maybe the ACI Titan II LE would be a good sub for you. Many consider it to be the best sub for music systems. I know of several people that would put this sub ahead of the likes of REL and some of the other more pricey "musical" subs. You definitely won't get the output of an SVS sub though. If I went that route I think I'd go with the 16-46 version due to the lower group delay with the lower tuning frequency.

 

[Alex Prosak]

Finally, I have heard that the SVS ULTRA is a killer sub to look at, yet I believe it is tuned for 20 Hz., is this correct? I would think that the 16-46 which is tuned to 16 Hz. would be better, as it is capable of more bass extension. Am I wrong here? Is there something else that makes the Ultra superior? If so, can the Ultra be had in a tuned for 16 Hz. version?

Bob,

You are correct, the ULTRA is tuned for 20 Hz. The big difference between the Ultra and the 16-46 PC+ is the driver. I do believe the SS is tuned to 16 Hz though, uses the same driver as the Ultra, and you get your choice of wood finishes if you get one of these subs. The SS subs are not powered so you would need to get an out board amp too.

Alex

 

[Seth_L]

Certainly I would. Show me one that is FLAT across the board, and I'll look at it. The figures I quoted for the subwoofers listed WERE measured in a room, and not in an anechoic chamber, but were measured at the listening position (approx. 3 meters), and not at the usual 1 meter.

I don't know of anyone who sells a FLAT subwoofer. It seems they don't think people would buy something as large as is needed to achieve that criteria.

It is however possible to build one. Probably the only place you could buy one from would be someone who builds and sells DIY type subs. Brian or Kyle could build you something custom (Tumult Passive Radiator design), but that puts you back into buying without hearing category.

Seth

 

[Edward J M]

Show me one that is FLAT across the board, and I'll look at it.

Bob:

This FR curve is for my 20-39PC+ with one port plugged.

1) Measured at the listening position 11 feet from the sub.
2) No EQ or BFD applied.
3) C-Weighted curve with NO correction factors applied for an unweighted curve.

I would say 100-11 Hz +/- 3 dB qualifies as "FLAT across the board", wouldn't you say?

Regards,

Ed

 

[Kevin*Harley]

Also, when you finally found a good price on the HGS-15, was it from an authorized dealer? Since it is not just a passive device, it has active electronics, etc., I feel that a warranty is an absolute must have on it.

Bob,
AGREE! Not worth the risk. Purchased from authorized dealer with full warranty.

 

[Chris Quinn]

Do you have an attic or basement that you can house an infinite baffle sub in? I've even seen pictures with the drivers housed outside the house. checkout "The Cult of the Infinitely Baffled" at http://f20.parsimony.net/forum36475/index.htm . You can build a very nice; clean, fast, and deep sub for easily less than $1000 that will best a $10,000 commercial sub. Also no box or tube to contend with just an opening to the manifold that is easily finished with grille cloth or an air register high WAF!

 

[Bob_Collins]

Edward, that response curve you show is pretty decent, I will definitely have to consider SVS.

Kevin, would you mind telling me where you got your HGS-15 from, and how much it cost? You can e-mail me the response, if you'd rather not post it in the forum.

Chris, I'll have to check out the link you provided.

Thanks again for your responses!

 

[Edward J M]

Edward, that response curve you show is pretty decent, I will definitely have to consider SVS.

In my best Matt Damon "Ocean's 11" voice: "Well, yeah."

All kidding aside Bob, that curve is with the SS filter set to 12 Hz and I normally don't run it that way since it might bottom the driver at high levels. The appropriate SS filter setting with one port plugged is 16 Hz. It won't change the look of the curve any, except at 15 Hz it would nosedive to protect the driver below the tuning point. I would guess the SS filter rate to be on the order of 24 dB/octave.

I never bothered to plug two ports for the 12 Hz tune, but I imagine it would show even a bit more gain way down low - perhaps flattening out that slight depression between 16 and 12 Hz. With two ports plugged, it would be considerably underported and this would only be an appropriate configuration for a small room where volume was not the main priority.

FWIW, I normally run the sub with all three ports open (for maximum air flow and SPL) and the SS filter set to 20 Hz, and I don't feel like I'm missing much of anything on the bottom end.

There are a few DVDs and some organ music that drop into the teens. I suppose to capture ALL of that, you would want to consider a 16-46 sized enclosure with all three ports open (16 Hz tune), or with one port plugged (12 Hz tune).

Finally, while the Klipsch RF-7 is a GREAT speaker, I have serious doubts about its ability to extend flat to 20 Hz. You might see good extension to around 30 Hz in-room, and then it will sign off pretty quickly. Even the mighty RF-7's would eventually benefit from being high passed at some point - maybe at 50 Hz and 12 dB/octave - that would still allow them to contribute strongly well into the upper 30s.

Regards,

Ed

 

[Kevin*Harley]

Bob,
Sent you a PM

 

[Bob_Collins]

while the Klipsch RF-7 is a GREAT speaker, I have serious doubts about its ability to extend flat to 20 Hz. You might see good extension to around 30 Hz in-room, and then it will sign off pretty quickly. Even the mighty RF-7's would eventually benefit from being high passed at some point - maybe at 50 Hz and 12 dB/octave - that would still allow them to contribute strongly well into the upper 30s.

I totally agree, it is most certainly not flat down to 20, but it will reproduce audible sound at 20, that was the point I was getting at.

Thanks for the PM Kevin.

 

[Michael R Price]

What, no one cares about dipoles? A good dipole sub might sound better than an IB even... unless you want to rock the house... or you have a wonderful room, that is.

I'd be partially motivated to get one of those big 16Hz tuned ported subs, if the room-induced boominess (affecting any other subwoofer just as much) isn't a problem. Vented can still sound pretty good; an SVS is probably better for music than 90% of sealed subs...

 

[JohnDG]

FWIW, I run an SVS 16-46 PCi at low volume levels (most of the time ). I'm amazed how, at -30 dB's (calibrated), that one can still feel the subsonic bass.

jdg

 

[JakeMcM]

I had an Adire Tempest based sub built for me for $470, on Avia its still going strong when the freq. sweeps stops at 20hz or so, I don't know how far below 20 it goes, but during some parts of LOTR I feel some tingling on the back of my neck, and my spine...it actually does bother me sometimes, but at least I know its working...probably the best 470 I've spent on my system, and it would be cheaper if you built it yourself...don't know if thats possible
On a side note the guy who built mine for me buit himself a different model w/tempest, it was about twice the size of mine something like ported 4x2(mine is sealed 2x2) and he said it went down to the low teens in hz...that would have cost me about 600 I think but it wouldn't fit in my room...In my biased opinion if DIY can be done right it blows away anything in the price range, and possibly above.

 

[Yee-Ming]

and on rolls the SVS bandwagon...

I am also of the opinion that the subwoofer should actually not be noticed so much (when playing music, anyway), but rather the lack of it should be noticed (playing music with the subwoofer engaged should sound good, true, and accurate (not boomy, or thumping), and then if the subwoofer were suddenly switched off, you should notice that it is missing).

when I first got my SVS25-31PCi (tuned 22), I hooked it up to my office minicompo. in the office, I of course listen at pretty low volumes. once I got it calibrated (by ear only), it nicely filled in the missing bass, and once I removed it, the bass part of music was simply anaemic, as it is now with the SVS at home and part of my HT system.

likewise now with the main system at home, I sometimes run source-direct, and though my main Mission 782s are rated down to 48Hz, on some rock tracks the oomph simply isn't there. switch to "stereo", so bass management kicks in, and it's there, never obstrusive nor overpowering, just nicely thumping the heavy bass-beat when required.

IMHO, SVS has plenty of die-hard fans on this forum (e.g. me ) and their reputation is richly deserved. I really took a leap of faith since shipping it out here cost US$106, making a return rather expensive, so I really took a chance -- and I'm glad I did.

 

[Josh Lowe]

I'll just throw in that I also have an SVS and consider it to be my favorite part of my HT/music system. It's versatile as hell and is of great quality.

 

[KyleGS]

I will reiterate what others have said. I really think you should contact Kyle @ Acoustic Visions (or DanW @ www.adireaudio.com) and have him design the exact sub you want based on the Tempest or Tumult. You can have high to mid teen extension with pristine musical reproduction. YOU tell him exactly what you want- SPL, extension, low group delay, etc and they'll design something for you to fit your needs. They then can laminate it or paint it like you want with the dimensions you want, etc...

If you have to buy from a "subwoofer company" then SVS is your best bet in your price range IMO.

 

[Terry St]

This FR curve is for my 20-39PC+ with one port plugged.

1) Measured at the listening position 11 feet from the sub.
2) No EQ or BFD applied.
3) C-Weighted curve with NO correction factors applied for an unweighted curve.

I would say 100-11 Hz +/- 3 dB qualifies as "FLAT across the board", wouldn't you say?

That's definately quite flat, at 75 dB in your room anyways. That curve will look very different at 85dB, and won't be recognizable at 100dB. A radio shack car speaker could probably produce an identical curve at 3 or 4 dB! I'm not trying to insult SVS, I'm just pointing out the context. It is rather deceptive to say a sub is flat based on only a 75dB curve in your own room. Not only is the volume low enough to hide low-end rolloff that *will* accompany higher SPL levels, for all we know your room has a coincidentally favorable distribution of modes that is hiding a sharp roll-off somewhere in the lowest octaves, or alternatively, flattening out humps. Your room might be giving you lower and flatter extension than is normal for that sub. Again, this is not meant as a knock. I'm just pointing out that others may be less fortunate than you!

 

[JimmyK]

SVS and Hsu subs are really popular these days because they offer incredible SPL levels for the buck. Apparantly their sound quality is decent too. I haven't heard a SVS, but I did try a Hsu out, and it was pretty good.

I would bet that those who have SVS subs or have at least heard one properly set up would descibe the sound quality much better than "decent".

It seems the only people who describe SVS's as being "loud" without comment on quality are people who have never heard one. Yes, they can go loud, but they are also very clean!

Ok, I feel better now.

JimmyK

 

[KyleGS]

Terry St