Cheap Home Theater review of nOrh 4.0's is up - one question though. . . (1 Viewer)

[Ryan Schnacke]

quote: We were somewhat concerned about nOrh's low sensitivity rating of 85db.[/quote]
I think the current 4.0 is at 87dB, up from 85dB for the original. Which explains why quote: we achieved the reference level with the nOrh system, just slightly higher on the volume than with the HTD Level III towers, a speaker with a sensitivity rating of 91db.[/quote]
I wasn't expecting such a negative reaction to the appearance of the 4.0. But my wife initially had a similar reaction. After a couple of months she's gotten used to them and thinks they're "kinda cute". But it helps that we got the more conservative white ceramic rather than the blue/silver speckled.
These enclosures are crafted rather than manufactured. And as such you will see some variations from one to the next. That's part of what makes them special. If you're expecting the sort of identical speakers you'd get from an assembly line then you'll be disappointed. Even so, ceramic has GOT to look better than most of the plastic boxes out there.
The performance review repeatedly notes the great imaging and soundstage. And while it does mention accuracy (while watching The Matrix), it seems that when the 4.0 was compared to the HTD towers they only talked about bass response and again imaging, plus a little note about brightness. No mention of which speaker was more accurate or detailed. This is where I believe the 4.0 excels (especially with music) but I'd like to hear what a reviewer has to say. (Edit: Joel answers this in the post that slipped in just ahead of mine. Thanks, Joel.)
Overall its an excellent review. I can filter out all the appearance comments since I like the way they look. And I want for a bit more depth in the performance review. Especially the performance when paired with a quality subwoofer. But maybe these things will be satisfied in the upcoming speaker comparo.
[Edited last by Ryan Schnacke on August 09, 2001 at 09:38 AM]

 

[Rob Curtis]

Joel,
"If you are asking if I think the nOrh's sounded better than the HTD Towers, yes. And remember, I really like those towers, I think that speaks volume."
Thank you for clarifying that.
It would have been nice if that had come through a little clearer in the review, but it is nice to see here.
As a nOrh owner I would like to thank you for taking the time and effort of doing the review.

 

[BryanZ]

Thank you for the clarification! The 4.0s truly are wonderful speakers. Looks are subjective. Personally I think they look cool. Would love to have seen how you would have rated the marble 4.0s (but they are $700 a pair vs. $400 for the ceramics). Ah well. That being said, will be tuning in for your upcoming shootout. Should be fun!

 

[John Gates]

My review of the review...

Copied from the Harmonic Discord nOrh forum for convenience. Sorry in advance to those who've already read this on HD:
I thought the review was, for the most part, very positive and fair. I agree completely with their assessment of the binding posts... I'd love to see these mounted on the bottom, if possible.
It's true that you either love or hate the looks of the drums. The ceramic design is probably the most controversial in terms of looks, with wood and marble being more acceptable to the general crowd. Makes me wonder, however, how the performance and features sections of the review would change IF they loved the looks of the drums. I believe their assessment of the appearance did color their review and their overall perception of the product, but this is absolutely human, normal, and forgivable.
Most impressive was the fact that, although they wanted to hate these, they *still* appreciated and praised the sonic value the drums offer.
I especially liked the fact that they brought out the HTD Towers for comparison. This speaks volumes! The hateful nOrh performed so well they felt compelled to drag out their #1 favorite speaker for a direct comparison on the spot!
While some here have said it's an unfair comparison because of design, etc, a pair of 4's is $400, and a pair of HTD Level 3 towers is $429. CHT is all about gettin the most bang for the BUCK, not the most bang for the CABINET VOLUME or WOOFER. Therefore, I think the comparison was completely valid and fair. That said, I also agree that any credible HT will have a subwoofer, so the real comparison for HT speakers (IMHO) is how they handle 80 Hz and up.
All in all, I am very pleased with the review. The sweet spot on these babies is HUGE compared to even much more expensive speakers, the detail is incredible, and *I* love the looks! I'm glad that CHT did the review, and I respect it as generally honest and direct. I can't wait for the shootout! It's interesting to note that, already, CHT is admitting you can't get more QUALITY HT SOUND for the price in anything they have yet tested.
John
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[JoelW]

I especially liked the fact that they brought out the HTD Towers for comparison. This speaks volumes! The hateful nOrh performed so well they felt compelled to drag out their #1 favorite speaker for a direct comparison on the spot!

This is the reaction that I expected to get by including the comparison to the HTD Towers, but unfortunately for the most part it has not been what we've heard back.
Also, another side note. We did team the nOrh's with and without subwoofers. I believe in the article it mentions something about when teamed with a subwoofer this problem goes away. If the review doesn't mention that it should.
I am going to make a couple minor corrections/updates to the article today.
1. The surface isn't painted, it is dyed
2. The feet are stainless steel not aluminum
3. $850 price includes shipping.
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Joel White
Editor CheapHomeTheater.com

 

[John Gates]

Joel, A few additional comments, suggestions:
These are the ratings the nOrh 4.0 received in the CHT review:
Look/Feel: 3
I'd suggest that you rate this even lower in the review, maybe even a 2, since you really didn't like the look/feel. I think you were trying to say with a 3 that it could be a 1 for some, and a 5 for others, but ended up saying nothing as a result. Might be fair to say that for your review staff, this was a 2, but for others, it could be a 5 depending on taste.
Features: 4
Ding for binding post location and quality of front grill. Plus for binding post quality. Probably a good rating here.
Performance: 4.5
Given the detailed accuracy of the sound, width of the soundstage, etc, I would've thought a 5 justified in this area. I'm not going to nitpick this one, however, since there was a concern about bass response < 65 Hz or so, and 4.5 is still a VERY good rating. Still, I think you'd be VERY hard-pressed to find a better-sounding speaker in this price range (or even double this price range), and I'm concerned that the looks of the speaker may have impacted the performance rating (see the 5/5 rating you gave the HTD Level III towers as an example of how the "looks" bias may affect a reviewer's rating of performance; two totally separate issues, IMO).
Overall: 4
Perfectly good rating, given the reviewing staff's dislike for the appearance. Might be good to add something like "if you like the looks of these speakers, the overall rating could jump up to 4.5 or even 5).
Lastly, I'd like to thank CHT for doing the review on the nOrh speakers. It takes some guts to go out there and register your opinion on subjective issues like this. I imagine some egos get bruised, and you endure some flames. I respect the CHT staff and your conclusions, and I thank you for offering, in general, a very interesting review, IMO. I apologize if any of the above comes off as overly critical. It's intended strictly as feedback to help you refine your review process and perhaps improve it over time. Take it or leave it, and thanks again for conducting the review...
John
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[Greg S]

"We immediately noticed that the off axis sound of the nOrh's was better than anything we had heard to date. At one point, I was at a 90 degree angle to the speakers, almost behind them, and it sounded as it I was in the sweet spot."
This is the very reason I chose nOrh. Suddenly there is no longer a "sweet spot" your whole room is a sweet spot!!
VERY IMPORTANT TO ME!
Greg

 

[JoelW]

Overall: 4
Perfectly good rating, given the reviewing staff's dislike for the appearance. Might be good to add something like "if you like the looks of these speakers, the overall rating could jump up to 4.5 or even 5).

Our overall is a pseudo average of the three review components, so for a speaker to score a 3 on look and feel and still get an overall 4, I thought this was a very positive review on the sound of the nOrh speakers. I can't emphasize enough, if you like the looks take a look at these speakers.
We always welcome comments and suggestions, it helps us get better at this whole review thing... And while we do often get flamed from extremists, we get lots of compliments and we certainly enjoy doing it. You have to remember that most people doing the flaming haven't had the opportunity to test like we do. Being able to have the exact same environment and test speakers side by side really can open your eyes. It is certainly a difficult task to "remember" how a speaker you heard two months ago sounded.
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Joel White
Editor CheapHomeTheater.com

 

[BruceD]

So, what are the crossover configurations for these speakers under discussion?
For those that are good at off-axis response, are the xovers 1st-order/6dB slope? Is the poor off-axis response of the others due to higher 12dB slope xovers and the higher phase-shift anomolies that come with these xovers?
Anybody have any information?
BruceD

 

[John Gates]

This statement is right on the bull's eye. Maybe you should be writing for us....

Do you have any openings?

John
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[Ryan Schnacke]

quote: Look/Feel: 3 I'd suggest that you rate this even lower in the review, maybe even a 2, since you really didn't like the look/feel.[/quote]
This is complicated by the fact the CHT tends to include "quality of construction" in the Look/Feel category. But these are really very different things. So, for instance, while CHT hates the way the nOrh 4.0 looks, it wouldn't be appropriiate to give it a 1 or 2 rating since the construction is solid. A better solution might be to swap the "Look/Feel" category for "Construction" - let people decide for themselves whether they like the looks.
Considering that there is some human tendency to follow-the-leader, I wonder how many people will let this review convince them that the nOrhs are ugly.
[Edited last by Ryan Schnacke on August 09, 2001 at 10:54 AM]

 

[JoelW]

So, what are the crossover configurations for these speakers under discussion?

From the HTD Website on their Tower information page
Crossover
2nd order at 2700 Hz
phase equalization on woofer
Not sure about the nOrh crossovers though.
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Joel White
Editor CheapHomeTheater.com

 

[JoelW]

Considering that there is some human tendency to follow-the-leader, I wonder how many people will let this review convince them that the nOrhs are ugly.

Now don't blame us for all the people that don't like the looks of the nOrh...
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Joel White
Editor CheapHomeTheater.com

 

[Jack Gilvey]

"Post-review" threads are my favorite.

 

[David Head]

Very nice review Joel! You can’t please everyone with a review, so there were bound to be some comments defending the nOrh speakers. nOrh owners are some of the most passionate on the net (along with SVS), which says a lot for what great speakers these are.
You originally rated the HTD Level III Towers a 5/5 on performance and just gave the nOrh speakers a 4.5/5, which was due to the bass response without a subwoofer. Would you now rate the performance of the HTD III Towers a 4.5/5 based on the nOrh review considering the off-axis sound?
I do find it interesting that some of the people responding here are surprised that you didn’t like the look, since I’ve read many comments here and on other forums that agree with you. I personally think the nOrh speakers look cool, but I can understand why others don’t.
I had considered the nOrh 4.0 speaker package when I was shopping around, but eliminated them for a couple of reasons. One reason, the sensitivity, seems to have not been an issue. It was very interesting to read that you “achieved the reference level with the nOrh system, just slightly higher on the volume than with the HTD Level III towers, a speaker with a sensitivity rating of 91db.” The speakers I ended up choosing (PSB Image Series) have a sensitivity rating of 92db. My other reason had to do with placement of the speakers. The nOrh speakers would not fit on “standard” speaker stands, so I would have had to come up with something else (I preferred not to hang them). I was also concerned that I might not be able to put the nOrh center channel on an RPTV (which I will be getting soon) because of weight distribution. My PSB Image 8c (23” wide and 23 lbs.) has good weight distribution. Maybe I should have solicited input from nOrh owners on these points, but I'm still happy with the PSBs.

And I don't understand the oft mentioned problem these guys have with the appearance of the Outlaw 1050, again referenced in this review. I have never read of anyone except them having an issue with the 1050's appearance (which, subjectively, I find far superior to the Onkyo's).

I have read various comments about the Outlaw’s “ugly green button and logo”. I like the clean appearance of the Outlaw, but I personally agree with those comments. I prefer the look of the Onkyo…maybe that’s why I just got a 696.
David

 

[Ryan Schnacke]

Now don't blame us for all the people that don't like the looks of the nOrh...

No way, Joel, its all your fault! And taxes and speed limits and gas prices - that's somehow your fault, too. It's all a big CHT conspiracy to take over the world ... I'm on to you!

 

[Greg S]

Joel,
Perhaps a grading system similar to computer equipment would be in order here.
5 Categories
1. Looks - looks only nothing else.
2. Build Quality/Construction - after it could look like a million $$ but be built like a cardboard box
3. Features - whats it got to offer you
4. Performance
5. Documentation/Company support - This is typically based on the ease of use of the item and how responsive the Manufacturer is to questions/problems. Naturally this could be hard to determine unless you have questions for the vendor.
LAST BUT NOT LEAST the OVERALL SCORE.
Typically in computers you also get graded on Overclockability and Stability but last time I checked you can't o/c a speaker

!!
I personally liked the review. I agree with others that your opinion of the looks detracted from your overall review, HOWEVER you were very clear to state that if you like the looks than these are great speakers. I noticed this immediately and do not fault for your opinion as well as how it was presented.
I also agree with the off axis comments as this is what sold me on nOrh and I firmly believe that no speaker I am familiar with has this same ability.
One last thing, its your review not the members of any forums review. Stick to your guns and beliefs. I am nOrh fan but I am bigger fan of "You are entitled to your own opinion, even if it does not agree with mine."
Afterall if we all had the same opinion about things how would we ever get better products???
Thanks again for the review!
Bring on the SHOOTOUT BABY!!!
Greg
[Edited last by Greg S on August 09, 2001 at 11:45 AM]

 

[JoelW]

You originally rated the HTD Level III Towers a 5/5 on performance and just gave the nOrh speakers a 4.5/5, which was due to the bass response without a subwoofer. Would you now rate the performance of the HTD III Towers a 4.5/5 based on the nOrh review considering the off-axis sound?

If we were reviewing the HTD Towers again, I would give them a less than perfect score due to their off axis sound. At the time we reviewed them, we hadn't heard any speaker that produced better off axis sound, but certainly the nOrh's do. I think that the single best feature of the nOrh 4.0 speakers.
Another point is that we review everything on performance/price ratio. Even if a $200 speaker and a $1,000 speaker get 4.5/5 for performance, obviously the $1,000 speaker sounded considerably better than the cheaper speaker to justify the same rating. I think we need to make a review and rating explanation page to clear some of these issues up.
Certainly a big thanks for all the comments, suggestions, compliments and criticism. We've certainly created quite a stir with this review, something that nOrh will probably ultimately benefit from.
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Joel White
Editor CheapHomeTheater.com

 

[chris c]

Jeez guys. It's ok to love a speaker, but quit telling the reviewer how to do his job. Some of you have even gone so far as rewriting the review and suggesting he use your version. Give me a break. This is in poor taste and makes me wonder why you need such validation. If you love the speakers - great - why are you taking this review so personally?
I may have been a little harsh in the above statement. I suppose if the criticisms help Joel become a better reviewer, all the better. Still, it strikes me as a little tacky....
[Edited last by chris c on August 09, 2001 at 12:47 PM]

 

[Due N]

Joel, TWO THUMBS UP on the review. I agree with what you said about the ceramic 4.0. The look is a love it or hate it proposition. I used to get a pair of ceramic nOrh. I'm ok with the look, except the SO. (Just like you mentioned in your review) I ended up bringing home the marble version. Same great sound, terrific look. On top of that, very high approval from the SO.
One thing that I like about nOrh is that they're receptive to customer feedback. Just recently, nOrh has no plan to come out with synthetic marble for the 4.0. After a lot of requests from customers, nOrh is working on one. Just based on that, I'm led to believe that your review certainly will have some impacts.
Kudos to you guys at CHT.
Now, when's the SHOOT OUT supposed to be out?