Will Krupp
Senior HTF Member
This is all very puzzling to me....
I just glanced at his caps (which BTW, I don't usually bother with screen caps and don't use them to make decisions about moving images) and they are not at all lifeless or drab on my screen. Granted, I'm not looking at them on my calibrated proofing monitor or anything, but I'd be a little surprised if they were lifeless on it.haineshisway said:Fascinating screen caps not a one of which resembles one whit the color on either the Criterion or Universal - not in those caps, sorry. Read the reviews of this title and its color and then tell me how the drab, lifeless color on the caps you've posted can reflect what the reviewers have said and what everyone on these forums have said - great color. Maybe it's my iMac 27-inch monitor displaying your caps incorrectly, but since I visit many sites and images look and great and accurate on them, I somehow doubt it. Which is why I don't take caps at any value and why Will Krupp is right - there are differences between the two - very minor, but there.
My screencaps are identical to the ones you will find at sites like Hundland, Cinema Squid, Land Of Whimsy etc etc, the sites that know how to take them, not my fault if your monitor is set up differently and the results are not to your liking, there is no difference in colour between these two discs, none, nada, not a single bit of difference, not sure why you see drab colours.haineshisway said:I've now compared both - just spot checking - I'll watch the Universal in its entirety in a day or so. But my cursory look reveals - same transfer. That's the simple part. Color is VERY close on each and from what I saw, I really have no preference because the differences are so tiny and minuscule to my eye. Both have the same sharpness and clarity, at least in my spot check.
Examples.haineshisway said:Fascinating screen caps not a one of which resembles one whit the color on either the Criterion or Universal - not in those caps, sorry. Read the reviews of this title and its color and then tell me how the drab, lifeless color on the caps you've posted can reflect what the reviewers have said and what everyone on these forums have said - great color.
The only way there would be a difference is if Universal changed anything for their release, my painstakingly taken screencaps prove this is not the case, i just don't understand how people can argue the point when you go to the trouble of doing a comparison which shows everything to be the same, it's almost like the dark ages and trying to prove the Earth is round but coming up against skeptics who claim it's flat.Douglas R said:Stepping in here, in a state of total ignorance (as if that stopped anyone from making comments!) and I don't have the discs but why should there be any difference between the two? As Universal hold the original elements, would they not have prepared the master for Criterion in the first place?
You basically put me down with your words in the post before this one, i will accept an apology anytime you want to give it, until then i feel i have proved conclusively there is absolutely no difference between the Criterion and Universal discs.haineshisway said:If screen caps appear differently on every person's monitor or viewing device then what possible good can they be in assessing anything because Foxy will say they look great and vibrant and I will say they look drab because we are not viewing them the same.
When I put someone down there is no "basically" about it. I did not put you down. The only thing I put down is screen caps and I'm not discussing them anymore. Even in the Zulu thread I believe I said something along the lines of I don't do caps but those caps look good or whatever. I have never EVER wavered in my loathing screen caps. I watch motion pictures with an emphasis on the motion. Really no need to discuss this anymore is there - I said early on in this thread, perhaps one of the first to say that the source material is the same.FoxyMulder said:You basically put me down with your words in the post before this one, i will accept an apology anytime you want to give it, until then i feel i have proved conclusively there is absolutely no difference between the Criterion and Universal discs.
I have also checked both discs, on three different displays, on a 60 inch plasma, on a 104inch projector screen and on a 17 inch Sony Vaio 1080p laptop screen, i have used four different blu ray players, one in the laptop, a Panasonic, a PS3 and an Oppo, all of which are setup correctly, no difference whatsoever, i have spent 10 hours making a screencap comparison to show all this and yet you for some reason want to doubt the evidence that the comparison provides.
You don't like screencaps, i get it, yet you will use them to prove a point when it suits you as seen in some other threads, Zulu, where you say the caps look great to you, of course when it doesn't suit you, then you rally against their use, okay i truly get it.
I wonder, how can my Zulu caps look great and yet you feel the Charade caps are drab and lifeless, i wonder a lot about that.
I should have said that screencaps do not appear different on everyones monitor, apparently just your monitor.
Incidentally i can think of a reason for why someone might set both discs up to a television and view a difference, let's say you have two blu ray players and connect each one to a different HDMI input to do a comparison by switching between each input, if those 2 HDMI inputs are not calibrated identically you may see a difference, you may also see a very mild difference if one of your players is a Panasonic and you have chroma upsampling switched on, other than this i am not sure why you would see any difference when there is none.
You claim there is a small colour difference, my screencaps prove this is not the case, i have also given you a possible explanation for why people might see a slight difference in colour related to calibration and using two different HDMI inputs, i consider it an insult because you still refuse to acknowledge the work i have done and instead continue to debase that work, if you want to say there is a mild colour difference then prove it, prove my screencaps are inaccurate or acknowledge they are correct and acknowledge there is absolutely no difference.haineshisway said:When I put someone down there is no "basically" about it. I did not put you down. The only thing I put down is screen caps and I'm not discussing them anymore. Even in the Zulu thread I believe I said something along the lines of I don't do caps but those caps look good or whatever. I have never EVER wavered in my loathing screen caps. I watch motion pictures with an emphasis on the motion. Really no need to discuss this anymore is there - I said early on in this thread, perhaps one of the first to say that the source material is the same.
It is not in my job description to acknowledge the work you've done - it may be important to you, but it isn't to me. I don't know how much clearer I can be. I don't care about screen caps, I don't care about what you or anyone else perceives as the result of the screen caps and the work involved. If it makes you happy to do what you do then that should be all the acknowledgement you need. I have not "debased" the work you've done, I've debased the idea of screen caps - it's not a secret how I feel about them and I'm not changing how I feel about them ever. If people want to judge transfers based on screen caps then that's just dandy. There are, as you know, people who ONLY judge transfers based on screen caps - they never actually buy Blu-rays at all. I understand what you're saying about the small color difference and if that's what's causing several of us to post that we see it, then that's what's causing several of us to post that we see it. I cannot acknowledge your screen caps are correct because I don't know enough about screen caps to know whether they are or aren't, but that is bypassing the real point - I don't care about screen caps - yours or other people's or other sites'. I just don't care. They do not interest me. You're obviously not going to get what you want from me so I think maybe it's time to move on. I'm not trying to be obstinate or stubborn, but you are demanding that I respond to you in a certain way and I find that rather, how shall I put it, presumptuous. I am, of course, always available to carry on this conversation by private message so we're not boring others to tears.FoxyMulder said:You claim there is a small colour difference, my screencaps prove this is not the case, i have also given you a possible explanation for why people might see a slight difference in colour related to calibration and using two different HDMI inputs, i consider it an insult because you still refuse to acknowledge the work i have done and instead continue to debase that work, if you want to say there is a mild colour difference then prove it, prove my screencaps are inaccurate or acknowledge they are correct and acknowledge there is absolutely no difference.
This is exactly right, i wish to add that mouseover screencap comparisons allow the viewer to interact and see any real world differences, they can be a very effective medium to show the real story when review sites claim to see differences, hopefully those who dislike screencaps will at least come round to admitting how effective they can be.Persianimmortal said:I'm not sure what the argument is here. It's true that screencaps may not be an accurate reflection of what each person sees on their own screen, or on a properly calibrated screen. But a comparison of the two discs using screencaps taken under identical conditions will objectively show any difference between the two transfers, and in this case there obviously is none.
Chill out John, it's just a conversation on a forum.John Hermes said:Oh, good. I thought the Haineshisway-FoxyMulder I-got-to-get-the-last-word-on-this-subject battle was over. Of course not, that's not possible.
Me chill out? Take a look at this repetitive drone that's gone on for two pages.FoxyMulder said:This is exactly right, i wish to add that mouseover screencap comparisons allow the viewer to interact and see any real world differences, they can be a very effective medium to show the real story when review sites claim to see differences, hopefully those who dislike screencaps will at least come round to admitting how effective they can be.
When a top review site claims a colour difference and there isn't any and a mouseover comparison proves this then it provides useful feedback for the entire community who can then make a better informed decision on whether to buy the title or not.
Chill out John, it's just a conversation on a forum.
It's called chat, people discuss things, if you don't like it then there are plenty of other threads to spend your time on, you consider it repetitive drone, that's fine, i call it a debate, one which had reached it's end, why even bring all this up unless you just wanted a response from me, well you got it. Live and let live, hit the ignore button on me and Haine if our chat offends you.John Hermes said:Me chill out? Take a look at this repetitive drone that's gone on for two pages.
Hello everyone. I just joined the forum. Looks like an informative and fun place.FoxyMulder said:"No difference in colour, here is my screencap comparison, exact same transfer with very small difference when viewing the caps to grain structure in some scenes, not noticeable in motion, this is due to VC-1 codec vs AVC codec and not any DNR being applied to the transfer.
http://www.darkrealmfox.com/film_reviews/2013/07/31/hd-comparisons-charade/"
That's the html file not the image file, in your browser it will say charade1.html, charade 2.html etc etc all the way to 20, the image files are in a folder called dvd_bluray comparisons, so for example click the two different links below for two different images of the same scene, one is Universal, one is Criterion, i simply bring the images together for a mouseover comparison, i use Dreamweaver for that and those files are used on the website and link to html files which hold the mouseover comparison of the two images.FilmArchivist said:Hello everyone. I just joined the forum. Looks like an informative and fun place.
I think I am missing something because I went to your site Foxy and only see one set of grabs.
For example, with the first grab, "charade1.html". It says that when I hover and also says "charade1.html" when I click to make it larger.
Where is the second photo of it compairing the two different versions of the film by Criterion and Universal ?
Thanks for any clarification on how to do it .