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Changing HT system around with Power Sound and Yamaha (1 Viewer)

gadgtfreek

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Well,

For a long while I have had huge Klipsch towers and the center (RF7II and RC64II), but I find myself wanting a little room freed up, and maybe something with a less in your face horn. Plus I never do 2 channel music any more either. So, the shopping began, and Ill start with, speaker shopping sucks...

Original HT Setup:
Marantz AV7702II
Outlaw Model 7140
RF7II's
RC64II
Rythmik FV15HP x 2


After looking around at what could replace what I have, handle high volume HT levels, and not break the bank, I settled on the Power Sound Audio MTM210 for my fronts and the MTM210C for my center (slash tv stand ;) ). Also, needing Dolby vision pass thru, I am selling the Marantz AV7702II and have a Yamaha A3060 arriving today. The PSA monitors need little power to play LOUD, so I can also sell my Outlaw amp and free up more room.

The final thing this allows me to do, is spread the subs out more. I know the farther they are apart the better, I proved it with REW, but due to the huge Klipsch towers the subs are cramped closer together. After speaking with Tom at PSA, I am going to place the MTM210 monitors on the subs with an isolation pad, so I can spread the subs out farther and then just toe the speakers in as needed for the MLP. The A3060 will drive these 3 speakers fine, so I don't have a large area of my stand tied up in an amplifier. The center is huge, its basically the same as the two monitors set to lay down (I've never owned a true LCR setup before in this manner), and I can place my OLED on top of it without issue. My HT stand is only 17" tall, I like the display to be as low as possible.

Final setup:
Yamaha A3060
PSA MTM-210's
PSA MTM-210C
Rythmik FV15HP x 2


I'll post some updates as I get it all in and try it out. Going to use the Sorbothane pads and feet they sell on Amazon in all kinds of sizes, for the MTM bases.


bda2c-RXA3060BLfr2UCAGBTKLRFS_f.jpg


117yamaharec.bac.jpg


MTM-210-4.png


MTM-210C-1.png


  • 2 way, audiophile loudspeaker
  • 1" titanium compression driver
  • Cast aluminum exponential horn
  • Dual 10" high efficiency woofers
  • Audiophile grade crossover completely designed in house
  • Frequency Response = 70Hz - 18kHz
  • Sensitivity = 98dB 1W/1M
  • Nominal Impedance = 8 Ohms
  • Power Handling = 175 W
  • Size HxWxD = 11" x 28" x 16" (includes grill)
  • Weight = 55lbs

Also nothing wrong with good ole made in the USA speakers.
 
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gadgtfreek

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Impressions after learning the menu's as a 100% Yamaha newbie, running YPAO with 8 measurements, level checking, and using some well known high SPL action scenes for listening:

  • The menu system is confusing as hell first, but once you get used to Display, On Screen and Option, it becomes easier than a Denon to look at certain things quickly, and what's nice even with Direct for processing (I don't like to use any), the overlays still work well and Direct does not cause issues with test patterns. Another very nice item is overlays when in HDR mode, my 7702II would not do that.
  • After YPAO was run, I did some listening with all my speakers set to small and 80hz, and it sounded pretty good but something was off. I put in spears and munsil 2 with the true HD track of -30 and -40dbfs tones, set the 3060 to 0.0 volume, and my levels were all off (the subs being the worst; too high). Explains why I had to crank the gains higher than I ever have for YPAO, so I know what to do next time. I had to drop the sub levels -8db, so Ill back off the gain some and rerun so that the subs are around +6, this should have me end up around -2. The fronts were perfect, and the center was about 2.5db higher than the fronts. I leveled all of that out, left it on YPAO Flat, and then watched some scenes from the first Bayformers and the armored car chase from The Dark Knight.
  • On Bayformers, I always use the attack on the base in the beginning, the highway fight, and the scene in the city battle were Hound flips over the lady in the street (deep bass hit) and fires rockets at the tank. Everything sounded GREAT (system is a 3.2, dual FV15HP's, two RF7II's and a RC64II) and the Yamaha drove it like a champ. Max dB at the MLP was 115.1 LOL.
  • Armored car scene is good, but has always been a little harsh with the Klipsch Horns to me, but it sounded great and hit 113.2 dB ;)

Impressed so far, this thing is a little beast. Other than levels, YPAO flat sounds pretty dang good.

Sum up the settings I am using:

8 Ohm MIN
Mode 1 (passes BT2020 HDR fine on Netflix and UHD Blu)
Video Processing on Direct
DSP is set to Straight
YPAO Flat
Speakers at 80hz and Small
 

gadgtfreek

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Speakers should be here soon, have everything moved out. Just talking with PSA about my speakers (7.5 feet apart and 9 feet from MLP), going with a 15 degree toe in. That is pretty much where the Klipsch were aimed, not at the MLP directly, but somewhat behind the MLP. The MLP is actually a spot right between where my wife and I sit (recliner beside a couch), and the Klipsch were aimed at our inner shoulders.
 

Robert Crawford

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All my new stuff is filtering in slowly. Today, I received my SVS PC13-Ultra. Tomorrow, I get the Yamaha A3060. My Outlaw 7140 shipped today so I probably won't get that unit until Monday or Tuesday of next week. I'll change out the receivers this week and play around a little bit with the settings. Next week, I'll be doing a lot more calibrating once the 7140 is in place.
 

gadgtfreek

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Got the beasts unpacked, as soon as the feet get here Ill get them all in the HT and post pics.


57JkY1.jpg
 

gadgtfreek

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Won't be able to run them like this, with the dogs...

c29L8U.jpg


Still looks powerful though

3qquAU.jpg


Used these lo-pro sorbothane grippy feet I found, rated at 8lbs per, so I put enough on all 3 speakers to cover weight, and they don't slide at all.

dwYVDu.jpg



Have to finish cleaning up now, and maybe get YPAO run tonight...
 

gadgtfreek

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Pretty much run out of time, but everything is done. I used a speaker angle app for the iphone, works real well. Set the speaker straight on, zero, and turn to 15 degrees. Using the image below, you can see where the right and left speakers hit the couch and recliner, aiming at a spot behind us. This is pretty much how the klipsch were too. I make the MLP measurement on any room eq in basically the split between our two armrests. Figure it gives as best sound as possible for both seats and then I measure the other 7 positions between the two seats in a box.

Sug4f3.jpg



Will run YPAO and set levels tomorrow when I get home, and then going to watch a new UHD movie tomorrow night.
 

gadgtfreek

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Well, I tested some Bayformers last night and then watched Great Wall UHD. Impressions are:

  • Sound great
  • Horns are more mellow, warm, not sure how to describe it, vs the Klipsch and that was something I wanted
  • Not sure if it is the new center, or the fact the LCR are all the same speakers, or what, but the front sound stage meshes very well and also seems more powerful, but still with excellent clarity. In the first part of Bayformers 1 when the helicopter lands at the base, and begins to transform for attack, the clarity of the metallic noises during transformation was outstanding (this was listening at reference level).
  • The speakers are highly efficient, and I have an Outlaw amp which only got slightly warm at reference, and the playback sound was clean as a whistle.
  • With the horns being in the middle of these monitors, they are 6-7" lower than the Klipsch horns, and more inline with the ear.
 

Robert Crawford

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Will run YPAO and set levels tomorrow when I get home, and then going to watch a new UHD movie tomorrow night.
I haven't even started messing with YPAO yet. My 3060 arrived on Thursday, but I came down with some flu bug which kind of slow me down. I was still able to rewire my HT with a 7.2.4 setup and change out another equipment rack. Since my Outlaw 7140 won't be here until Tuesday at the latest, I'm using my Onkyo 3010 receiver for my four Dolby Atmos speakers and using 3060 for the 7.2 speakers & subs. I had a HDMI handsake issue with my Roku Ultra unit and the 3060. I got resolved. I watched the Logan 4K/UHD disc this morning so it was my first Dolby Atmos soundtrack I heard at home. Anyhow, I'm still reading up some things with the 3060 and taking a deeper dive into my SVS PC13-Ultra sub before the Outlaw amp gets here. I might run some YPAO tomorrow and Monday.
 

gadgtfreek

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I'm real happy with the YPAO sound, coupled with the new speakers. YPAO seems to do a better job than people give it credit for.
 

gadgtfreek

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After many hours of HDTV content now, I can say a few more things:

  • As stated above, these speakers just sound more meaty, like with deep voices and other noises than the Klipsch did.
  • The horns as def more laid back, so that is a YMMV on which you would prefer, as much of audio is subjective anyways.
  • The whole front is more seamless when watching content, not sure if that is because the speakers are closer together, the fact they are all the same, but it is obvious. I also wonder if some of the sound improvement I notice is because being on the subs the horns are a perfect height. Also not sure how directional the Klipsch horns are vs the PSA horns.
  • IMO, the 210C is better than the RC64II strictly looking at the center channel sound. It is the most obvious improvement for me, other than a more mellow horn sound.

You will never hear me say the Klipsch top end models were bad, they weren't and they kicked ass in 2 channel music, but these do for me what I hoped the change would bring.
 

Robert Crawford

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I took some initial YPAO readings this afternoon. I'll do more over the next several days especially after I get all of my new equipment hooked up.
 

Robert Crawford

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The one thing I don't like about the Yamaha 3060 is the receiver display not showing what audio format is playing on a Blu-ray or 4K/UHD disc or watching HBO. You have to access the information tab to find that out and it just looks strange seeing "Straight" on your receiver display instead of Dolby TrueHD, DTA-HD, Dolby Atmos or etc.
 

gadgtfreek

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The one thing I don't like about the Yamaha 3060 is the receiver display not showing what audio format is playing on a Blu-ray or 4K/UHD disc or watching HBO. You have to access the information tab to find that out and it just looks strange seeing "Straight" on your receiver display instead of Dolby TrueHD, DTA-HD, Dolby Atmos or etc.

Hit info on the remote once, that will change it from saying the processing format to what is coming in (True HD for example). I was irritated by that at first, but then figured it out. I just then use the display button to confirm its on Straight.
 

Robert Crawford

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Hit info on the remote once, that will change it from saying the processing format to what is coming in (True HD for example). I was irritated by that at first, but then figured it out. I just then use the display button to confirm its on Straight.
Thanks, I need to read the manual more, but I try to figure things out before resorting to the actual instructions.
 

Robert Crawford

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Well, I got all of my new stuff hooked up. I've been playing around YPAO, but it keeps switching my speakers over to large while they should be small.
 

CraigF

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Well, I got all of my new stuff hooked up. I've been playing around YPAO, but it keeps switching my speakers over to large while they should be small.

That's pretty normal for these systems when they do an auto setup/determination. It's just sort of telling you that they're "full range" speakers. I always have to manually set them to small, which is what we usually want when we have subs and bass management, except in special circumstances.

Also, if the system determines your speakers are "large", it does give you some flexibility in deciding on the bass management XO frequency (i.e. you could lower it), though most people use 80Hz and I'm pretty sure that's what any THX cal would use since they pretty much "invented" that "standard".

As an aside, you would probably find, if the system determined your speakers were "small", that you would have a few less setup options.

Edit: I said all that making the assumption that your speakers are in fact "large". Not physically, but sonically "large". :) Speaker placement can make a "small" speaker measure as "large" to the system as well, besides the speaker's inherent capabilities. The system decides between large and small based on the speaker's low frequency capability.
 
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gadgtfreek

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Yeah, I always change mine to small and the appropriate xover point.

Really loving these PSA's after some time. Powerful, seamless, clean, and the center is the best center I have ever heard.

I still should have Chad B out in August to touch up the E6 and cal my system with the Yamaha PEQ and REW.
 

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