Changes to 2002 Toshiba RPTVs?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Brent_N, Oct 20, 2001.

  1. Brent_N

    Brent_N Stunt Coordinator

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    I am in the planning stages of a basement finishing project and plan to build a RPTV into the wall. Currently, I am considering a Toshiba 53H71. In order to frame the opening, I need to take precise measurements on a current 2001 model TV, but probably will not purchase the TV until I get my tax refund next year (at least there will be some small consolation for losing money in the stock market this year).
    Does anyone know if Toshiba is changing the physical dimensions or appearance of their RPTV models for 2002?
    Also, do you know if the 2002 Toshiba RPTVs will have the HDCP-DVI and/or 5C-IEEE digital interface in anticipation of future encryption?
    Thanks,
    Brent
     
  2. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    The currect model year for Toshiba sets is 2001/2002. Toshiba normally announces new models in July and ships between August and November.
     
  3. Brent_N

    Brent_N Stunt Coordinator

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    Ok, so when will Toshiba (and other brands) add HDCP-DVI and/or 5C-IEEE type connectors to their RPTVs?
    Considering my situation described above, should I wait for this capability before buying a HD ready TV?
    Thanks,
    Brent
     
  4. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    When will they add DVI? Hopefully never! If nobody ever adds DVI jacks, then there will never be a point to broadcasting material that will end up being down-res'd on everybody's HDTV.
    1394/5C will become standard eventually, but only on those TVs that have integrated DTV decoders. It's pointless to put a 1394 connector on an HDTV Monitor (a display with no integrated DTV decoder).
     
  5. BradZ

    BradZ Stunt Coordinator

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    Brent- The rumor, perhaps it's been confirmed by now, is that the next models that are released will have firewire inputs. This stands to reason as Toshiba is part of the 5c consortium.
    JohnnyG, I think you're a little confused about a couple of things. First JVC currently has a set out with a DVI input. Second, The whole point of Firewire or DVI is a connection between a STB and an HD ready set. So your assertation that these digital inputs are only needed on integrated HDTV's is backwards. Integrated sets are just fine, it's the HD ready sets that are threatened by the new standard.
    Who will win and what should a potential buyer do? No clue- I'm waiting a bit. Basically the MPAA wants DVI because its more secure- DirecTV and Echostar have both announced future support of DVI. The 5C consortium wants firewire because they already have it ready to go. Who's more stubborn? Consumer Electronics companies or the Movie Studios? your guess is as good as mine. But it's time to face facts- eventually analog input HDTVs will be receiving down-rezzed signals. The only way to assure future HDTV is a digital connection.
    ------------------
    zaphod
    end of transmission...
     
  6. Brent_N

    Brent_N Stunt Coordinator

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    Ok, so it sounds like the safest HD ready RPTV purchase would be one that includes both DVI and Firewire connectors.
    Which manufacturers are likely to offer both interfaces to consumers (Mitsubishi? Toshiba? Panasonic? etc.). How soon would they be available? 6 months? 12 months? 24 months?
    Again, my situation is that I am in the designing stages of a basement refinishing project, and I would really like to know the exact dimensions of my future RPTV (since I am building it flush into the wall). On the other hand, I would rather wait for the digital interfaces if they will be available within the next year or so (hopefully sooner).
    Thanks,
    Brent
     
  7. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    My point was that if no (or very few) displays support a DVI input and the majority of sets will not have integrated decoders and therefore no 1394 interface, where are the customers for the encrypted content going to come from? It simply won't be worth encrypting it because they won't be able to sell it.
    1394 is a widely supported format, but the DVI interface was agreed upon by the HDCP folks and the MPAA. NOT the CEA. With the exception of the aforementioned JVC unit, there isn't a single set that I hear of coming down the pipes with a DVI input, or even a manufacturer that supports it for that matter. Got evidence to the contrary?
     
  8. BradZ

    BradZ Stunt Coordinator

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    Johnny-
    not trying to start a flame war, I just mis-read some of your points. I think perhaps you also mis-read some of mine.
    in the end, we agree that DVI would be a mistake for the consumer- but the fact that the MPAA is so infatuated with it and that Echostar and DirecTV have agreed to support it is reason enough to be worried that something may come of it.
    True currently there is only one set with DVI inputs, but if the sat companies play ball with the MPAA I could see the electronic companies- especially those not involved in the 5C group- incorporating them in their new designs.
    Again- sorry for any offense- none was meant. I hope that DVI and firewire both go the way of the dodo, but I'm afraid neither the MPAA or the CEA care what I think.
    ------------------
    zaphod
    end of transmission...
     
  9. Glenn Overholt

    Glenn Overholt Producer

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    Brent - don't. Stop right where you are. If you buy a TV now, and fit a side of the room to fit it in perfectly (which would look good!), what is going to happen if you have to replace it and that size is no longer available?
    I have no idea exactly what you're doing, and you might want to post this in the building section, but if you made a 2 x 4 frame and faced it with paneling cut to the exact size, then if you got a bigger tube later you could just cut away enough for the new size.
    And I think this 'port' would be in the back, so make sure that you have an access hatch.
    Glenn
     
  10. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    Brad, no offense was taken...it's just my nature to debate with zeal!
    Actually, I'd like to see analog component inputs go the way of the dodo! DVI is a much better display interface as far as I'm concerned.
    If you read the documentation for the DTCP and HDCP systems, they really aren't that bad. Personally, I can live with them as they are written in the specs. The real 'evil' is in the wording of the agreement that you must sign to use this technology. This is what puts the nasty restrictions on analog outputs.
    As for the sat companies, none of them have said that their next HD receivers - the ones that will include DVI and/or 1394 - will omit analog component video outputs. They most certainly will still sport these.
     
  11. Sean_S

    Sean_S Auditioning

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    What is the advantage of DVI as far as display quality unless the display device is truly digital? CRT's, LCD's, and plasmas all require a processed, analog signal for display. So, even if they accept a digital input (1394 or DVI), they will convert it to analog internally for display. According to an article in TPV (I forget the author and title of article. Forgive me.), DLP is the only truly digital consumer display device -- i.e., each picture element can be addressed seperately/individually in the digital domain. (There is conversion that takes place, but it only converts the digital signal to the digital format the display device actually uses when addressing the pixels.)
    The only way DVI might increase the picture quality on a CRT based rear projector would be if the D/A conversion in the display device is better than that in the STB. Another advantage would be less signal degradation from STB to the display device -- the longer the signal is digital the less chance it has of degrading.
    I'm all for DVI, but using it on a non-digital display device would introduce added costs with hardly any, if at all, improvement in picture quality.
    Regards,
    Sean
    [Edited last by Sean_S on October 23, 2001 at 04:32 PM]
     
  12. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    According to computer monitor manufactures, the DVI input allows the manufacturer to better tune the DAC to the display. Also, the digital DVI connection is immune to EMI and RFI. Now I'm sure the end result isn't going to be a night and day improvment, but incremental ones are always welcome.
    Let's not forget the confusion that 3 identical video cables are going to cause Joe 6-Pack either! How many people out there in 'lowest common denominator' land don't have the left and rights connected properly on their CD players today, or have their speakers wired out of phase?
    Consider too that some day, it's likely that all display devices will be 'digital' by nature.
    [Edited last by JohnnyG on October 24, 2001 at 12:12 PM]
     
  13. Sean_S

    Sean_S Auditioning

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    Points well taken. I agree.
    Sean
     

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