CD Burners... (1 Viewer)

[Kevin C Brown]

I thought I was going to get a Pioneer PDR-609. But then I figured out that I can't have SCMS.

So I'm going to get a professional one.

Any suggestions?

Any reason to *not* get the Tascam CD-RW700? (I have

a Tascam DA-40 DAT machine, and really kind of like

it.)

Any known problems with it, or, any other better value

machines out there?

HBB is Pioneer, right? But they are kind of hard to

find.

Thanks!!

 

[KeithH]

Kevin, I have read good things about Tascam CD recorders, including the CD-RW700. Not only do the professional burners allow you to bypass SCMS, you can also use data CD-Rs and CD-RWs, which are cheaper than the audio CD-Rs and CD-RWs.
I'm not so sure that HHB products are made by Pioneer, but some of their past CD burners have resembled Pioneer models. I remember seeing an HHB burner awhile back that was based on the famous Pioneer Elite PDR-99. Www.samash.com should have some HHB products. I know there are other online dealers of HHB gear. Post a question on the pro audio board on Audio Asylum. People there will be able to point you to online HHB dealers.
If you decide to go with the Tascam burner, check Oade Bros.' price. I got a Tascam DA-20mkII DAT deck from them awhile back brand new for $675, which was an excellent price. As with Sony gear, Oade Bros. has great prices on Tascam equipment.
Best of luck in your search.

 

[Brian Bowles]

What makes this type of cd burner better than the Plextor in my computer?

 

[Sebastien David]

they're easier to use, i guess...

but they don't offer nearly as much flexibility or different uses...

try to backup mp3s with those things...

imo, there isn't any real reason apart ease of use to go for standalone cd burners.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Keith- (Hello!) Thanks for the tip on the Audio Asylum Pro Audio board...

I have a PC CD burner. But I also have a stereo. Across the room. My internal debate was either an internal sound card in my PC and stringing cables across my room, or a standalone burner. The standalone burner won mostly because it will be easier to use. (vs "recording" with PC software) But then if I want, just use sneakernet to brings discs back and forth to my PC for any editing anyway.

Plus, I have heard, that D/A and A/D converters in standalone burners can be/are usually better than PC cards. (But I was looking at the M-Audio 2496 card, so I don't think that would be an issue anyway.)

But the real reason is the cables and convenience.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Keith- It wasn't the Pro Board where I found stuff, but the general Digital board. (Digital Drive)

 

[Sebastien David]

Kevin,

aren't the D/A - A/D converters moot for that kind of use? if using a PC burner, you're not decoding anything to analog, are you? you're just taking the digital track and putting it on another cd...

i can see one important use of a standalone cd burner that would be expensive/difficult/not as high-quality with a PC solution: recording analog sources (such as LPs or casettes) to CD. I'm guessing it's pretty easy to do with a standalone deck, whereas with a Pc configuration, you'd have to have a really good soundcard to get good results, and even then they might be compromised by all the noise going on inside that box. as for normal soundblaster live! class soundcards, I'd guess the sound wouldn't be nearly as good as with a standalone deck.

apart from that...

 

[Bergan Peters]

That is a BAD BAD website. The reason I can think of NOT buying this is that it is SO expensive, you could buy 2 TDK 20x burners with Burn proof and a copy of Prasi Disk Juggler to burn CDs simultaneously, and STILL be ahead by $300!!

 

[KeithH]

Kevin,

No problem. Glad to help. I would have thought that the pro audio board on Audio Asylum would have more information on pro CD burners. Certainly, CD burners in general have been discussed on the Digital Drive.

Others,

Hi-fi component burners are more convenient to use in general than are computer burners. Also, for some people, a dual-tray burner serves as a CD player, not just a burner. I have read in both UK and US hi-fi magazines that component burners make better-sounding copies than do computer burners. I'm not so sure about that, as my computer burner with Adaptec Easy CD Creator makes excellent copies. Still, I feel component burners are more convenient. I have a Harman/Kardon CDR 30 dual-tray burner, which is great when I am in a rush. Still, I find that my computer and component burners both serve a purpose. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

 

[Philip Hamm]

i can see one important use of a standalone cd burner that would be expensive/difficult/not as high-quality with a PC solution: recording analog sources (such as LPs or casettes) to CD. I'm guessing it's pretty easy to do with a standalone deck, whereas with a Pc configuration, you'd have to have a really good soundcard to get good results, and even then they might be compromised by all the noise going on inside that box. as for normal soundblaster live! class soundcards, I'd guess the sound wouldn't be nearly as good as with a standalone deck.

You're not kidding! For analog recording components are way better unless you buy a pro sound card. My sound card is a cheap game card.

For fun I made a copy of some LPs recently, gogin directly from the tape out on my HK3270 receiver in my office. I had previously recorded this record using the same receiver on my old MD deck, a Sony MDS-JE510. I then took the analog PC recorded CD (Recorded using SoundForge, mastered with CD Architect, meticulously tracked much like MD BTW) and my old MD down to my HT room. I A/Bed the two recordings, the MD analog and the PC analog. The MD analog sounded great, the PC one sounded OK, but like complete GARBAGE in comparison to the MD. I mean really really bad compared to MD.

Avoid the PC like the plague if recording analog unless you're willing to pony up the bucks for some pro sound gear. The mass media stuff is not worth it.

 

[Brian Bowles]

Thanks for the post Keith. So far no one really can tell why component cd burners are better. They just say they are. lol I can not imagine how. It is digital. Ones and zeros. It either copies it correctly or it does not copy it. I really do not see how they could be easier to use. Heck mine is real easy. I wish someone could show hardcore proof on why the audio burners are better. I wonder if someone could tell the difference in a blind test? As for having two trays, I have a Plextor cd burner and a Toshiba DVD drive. I have two trays and so do many others. I guess if one did not have a computer it would be a good choice, but you could almost buy a computer for the price of some of those "high end" component burners. Keith I too would like to believe that a component burner is better for some reason but right now I do not. Until I see different I think it is just marketing or people just saying they are better just because they believe them to be. Please do not take this as a flame anyone. I just disagree. Can you burn songs from various cd's with a component burner to make a greatest hits cd? I just wondered.

 

[KrisM]

I have had a Pioneer PDR-509 for a few years and have been very happy with it. The SCMS can be a problem but I don't have much use to burn copies of copies, and if someone said 10 years ago that I would be able to copy a CD for $2 I never would have beleived it.

I had a roomate who used a computer burner and the sound was great, but there was a small audible tick or pop before the start of most songs. Is this because of the burner or cheap software?

KrisM

 

[Brian Bowles]

Dont know Kris I have never had that problem. I think something was wrong in his setup or the cd's he was using.

 

[jeff peterson]

I have the Tascam RW700 unit. I also have a Yammy CD changer w/digital out and a Yamaha 2092 receiver. I've tried the DACs(for playback) in all 3 and the Tascam's kicks their butts as far as playback quality.

A question for PC CD burner fans, does the PC based burner copy bit for bit or is there a file conversion in between? I used to have a PC burner (without another CD source in the PC) and I seem to recall the source CD got stored on the hard driver, prior to writing to the destination CD, in a different format; ie, WAV vs CD (or something to that effect). The Tascam unit (AFAIK) does true bit to bit copying from my source deck through its optical output.

 

[Brian Bowles]

Good point Jeff. I do not know. Maybe that is the answer we were looking for. I think it is bit for bit but I am not sure. I can copy from cd to cd or save it on the hard drive first too.

 

[KrisM]

Brian,

I tried different brands of cd's on the computer burner and it didn't matter. Its not a big deal since I don't live there anymore and the old roomate denied that there was a problem.

As far as making mixed discs on component, it is very easy, kind of like making a mixed tape. My machine also has a recording level adjustment for analogue and digital recording.

I would also like to see proof(or lack of) regarding the quality of stand-alone burners. Sometimes it sounds like people that have spent alot of money trying to justify their expense.

Regards

KrisM

 

[Brian Bowles]

I agree that is a good point. I could always send you a cd made on mine and you could compare. Of course I am sure you would destroy it after testing so as to not break copy write laws. I sometimes wonder if people just say their equipment sounds better when really it does not either. Things like real expensive cords make me wonder. I have good cords like monster cables for everything and a Better Cable going to my SVS. I wonder if a $150 cord would really better. The samething applys to cd burners.

 

[David Pitkin]

If your library is entirly cd's then the pc burner is the best way to go. As long as you have a good program to do the ripping your copies will sound as good or arguably better than the originals.
If want to make CD's from analog sources like tapes and LP's then the component burners are much easier since its built to do exactly what you want and there are no messy analog to digital conversions to use your computers very noisy electronics to do. Now there are upgrades you could do to your computer and software to bring it to the level of the 700 Tascam for recording and mastering but why bother? Plus when explorer or the finder crashes your copy is safe
--
David

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Good discussion!
BTW, one big part of my use is going from vinyl to CDR/RW, so that's my main motivation for looking at a (pro) component burner. Then, the Pro part comes in because I want to make digital copies of all the MDs I have.
Oh, check out www.cdrfaq.org . Lot's of good info in there. If you look around, that's where I saw the comment about the DACs in a component burner being better than sound cards.
Also, one thing about the Pioneer CDR-609 I spotted (man, I wish I could get a pro version of this baby...), it has measured at 200 ps for jitter. That is *very* good. Now, whether you believe in jitter's effect on sound quality or not, or whether a jitter measurement can even be made, this can only be looked at as a plus. So, 609 at least, also provides a state-of-the-art CD transport.
(I though HHB was Pioneer's professional division, but 1 person said not. ??)
One thing, I was all set to pull the trigger on the Tascam today, when I started to hear rumblings about "problems." (Maybe 3 out of 10-15 people.) But I don't have any info. 2 of the 3 said I should go for an HHB (830) instead.
Any thoughts?
Oh, another stupid reason why I'm not adverse to spending the money to get a component burner: it would replace the MD deck I have, and not leave a "hole" in my rack! Hee, hee.

 

[KeithH]

Brian said:

Can you burn songs from various cd's with a component burner to make a greatest hits cd? I just wondered.

Yes, you can. The problem with using a component burner to make mixes is that if there is an error in dubbing one song causing you to make a "coaster", you have to start over from scratch. With a computer burner, you store all songs as WAV files on the hard drive, so you just have to copy the one song over again and burn everything again. When I makes mixes onto CD-Rs, I usually fit about 16 songs on a disc, and each song comes from a different CD. If I were to make a coaster in the process with a component burner, it would be a lot of work to start over from scratch. As a result, I like to use my computer burner to make mixes, but I like using my Harman/Kardon CDR 30 component burner for making quick dubs of entire CDs.

Although I like using my component burner for making dubs, it doesn't allow me to incorporate CD TEXT. I am now using my computer burner for making a lot of dubs of my CDs onto CD-Rs. I want to have CD TEXT on all the CDs in my megachangers, so I am using the computer burner to put CD TEXT onto CD-Rs. It takes awhile to copy the songs onto the hard drive and then onto CD-Rs, but I can add CD TEXT this way. So, in the end, I feel a computer burner is more useful than is a component burner. Still, if I want to make a quick dub, I will use the component burner.