CCR SACDs: Comments on how the CD layers compare to the SACD layers?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by KeithH, Nov 16, 2002.

  1. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    I picked up the Creedence Clearwater Revival Willy and the Poorboys SACD today at Tower Records. First, I listened to "Fortunate Son" and "Down on the Corner" on the SACD layer and was quite pleased. I've read here and on Audio Asylum that the limitations of the master tape are readily apparent on the SACD, and I have to agree. I would not quite consider the SACD layer to be a magical experience, but it sounds quite good. However, I then did some comparisons between "Fortunate Son" and "Down on the Corner" on the CD and SACD layers, and was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the CD layer. The SACD layer sounds deeper and more involving, but the difference is not as significant as I expected. Does anyone else feel the same way? Along those lines, how do the SACD and CD layers compare on Cosmo's Factory?

    Steve Hoffman and Kevin Gray were at the helm for this disc, so maybe with talent "behind the wheel", all is not lost in going from DSD to 16/44.1 PCM. Thoughts?
     
  2. John Tillman

    John Tillman Supporting Actor

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    Keith, wish I could answer your question but I haven't been able to get beyond the sacd layers yet. Willie & the Poorboys is a great great album and when my 555es defaults to the SACD layer I just let it play through. Last night, I did the same for Cosmos and the new Zombies disc which just showed up. I've got Green River on order as well.
    I'll have to move them to the car to force the CD layer on myself[​IMG].
     
  3. Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

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    Keith, what you describe is something I notice in most cases- both with hybrids and with non-hybrids and their CD equivalents. I am at the point where I feel that the mastering has a much, much bigger role in the final sound quality than the format.

    As for CCR specifically, I haven't listened to the CD layers.
     
  4. John Geelan

    John Geelan Screenwriter

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    I still haven't seen these in the stores yet.
     
  5. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    John Tillman,
    I understand. I normally just stick with the SACD layers as well. If you do ever listen to the CD layer on your home system ([​IMG]), please post your impressions.
    Mike,
    Mastering is certainly very important. Acoustic Sounds got the right guys to handle the CCR project. I think this is a combination of having excellent mixing engineers couple with excellent technology. I assume that the DSD master used for the SACD layer is used to produce the CD layer (through conversion to 16/44.1 PCM). As I said, perhaps all is not lost in this conversion process.
    I would be interested in comparing the CD layer on the Willy & The Poorboys SACD to Hoffman's DCC gold CD, but I do not have the latter. The DCC gold CD is undoubtedly very good, but DSD technology was not used in its production. I do have the DCC gold CDs of Cosmo's Factory and Pendulum and will have to compare them to the CD layers on the SACDs down the road.
    John Geelan,
    I was suprised to find the CCR SACD at the Tower Records in Cherry Hill, New Jersey yesterday. Unfortunately, they did not have Cosmo's Factory. If they had, it would be in my house right now. [​IMG] Anyway, I nearly missed the CCR SACD yesterday, as it was not on the shelf. It was in the understock. Things have progressed with SACD to the point where this particular Tower Record's selection has outgrown the shelf space allotted. That's great to see. Yesterday was the first time that they did not simply have duplicate copies of discs in the understock. I will be sure to check the understock every time I am there.
    By the way, I got the Willy and the Poorboys SACD for 10% off yesterday ($22.99). There was talk recently on Audio Asylum that Tower Records would be running a 10%-off sale on SACDs from, I believe, November 26th until something like January 2nd. Some people on Audio Asylum said that their local Tower Records stores had started the sale already. Obviously the store in Cherry Hill has too. [​IMG] I believe this sale is limited to in-store purchases only. [​IMG]
     
  6. John Geelan

    John Geelan Screenwriter

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    mmmm...thanks Keith...looks like I need to take a quick ride over to Tower.
     
  7. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    John, no problem. Hope the trip is worthwhile. The store in Cherry Hill also had some of the new Universal discs (e.g., Getz & Gilberto).
     
  8. John Tillman

    John Tillman Supporting Actor

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    John G,
    I usually hit the Tower in Huntington which like the one Keith describes has a good display with plenty of stock underneath on shelves (haven't seen any CCR or Zombies yet). Problem is all hi-rez is mixed and gets very messy, but they do keep restocking with most labels. Last week, I found one copy of Jorma Kaukonen's Blue Country Heart and scooped it up. Went back yesterday, and they had re-stocked with another copy. This has happened with other titles like Rebecca Pidgeon or Chesky's Intro to SACD, etc. I also found (and bought) a Universal SACD of Muddy Waters Folk Singer in the Blues section at the back of the store.
    I occasionally hit the Carle Place store which is good, but not quite as good as the Huntington store. I know there is another in Massapequa, but I haven't been there yet.
    Back to Kaukonen for a moment, I just picked up tickets to see him & some form of Blue Country Heart at the Huntington Imac in January... Lookin' forward to a little bit of live music [​IMG].
     
  9. John Tillman

    John Tillman Supporting Actor

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    Keith,

    I just listened to the first four songs on Willie & the Poorboys. After each song I switched over to the CD version and I have to agree with your observation. There is not a big difference between what I heard.

    Perhaps a slightly larger soundstage, pieces of songs such as the harmonizing voices singing "Down On The Corner" sounding a bit clearer on the SACD layer. Overall, an impressive sound on either format.
     
  10. Seth_S

    Seth_S Second Unit

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    Speaking of the CD layer, does the CD layer on a SACD sound superior to its CD counterpart? In other words, are labels creating new, remastered stereo mixes for the CD layer, or are they just recycling the old CD master?
     
  11. Justin Lane

    Justin Lane Cinematographer

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    I am curious like Seth, as to how the CD layer and SACD layer on the new hybrid disc match up to the K2 remasters. I have seen some comments that the SACD layer has no advantage over the redbook K2 and it is essentially a toss up. I am guessing that the K2 remasters probably out do the redbook layer on the SACD then.

    I know BMG offers the 6 disc CCR box set which contains all of the K2 remasters plus a disc of unreleased material for a little over 30 bucks (about 50 total shipped). If the K2 are just as good as the SACD I would rather get six discs for the price of 2 SACD Hybrids. Any comments?

    J
     
  12. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    John,

    I agree that the SACD layer on Willy and the Poorboys has a slightly wider soundstage, and there is a bit better separation between instruments and voices. All in all, however, the CD layer sounds quite good.


    Seth and Justin,

    I have all the K2 CCR CDs, and they are quite good. I have yet to compare the K2 and SACD versions of Willy and the Poorboys. I'll have to do that. Certainly if the K2 versions are as good or better than the CD and/or SACD layers, then the boxed set would be a steal at $50.
     

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