car subs vs. HT subs (1 Viewer)

[TerryC]

Jeff,
I did back to back comparisons of a great car sub called the Mass 2012 and compared it to the Shiva. Used 4.1ft3 box tuned to 20hz.
Mass "barely" beat it audibly but it did beat it by at least 2db to 3db at the lowest octaves when measured.
For those that do not know about the Mass it is without a doubt one of the best drivers around and is sold direct for $299 and it would likely be 2 to 3 times as much if sold retail. The Shiva is only $115, like everyone says on this thread, it's one very hard driver to compete with. Surely not the best for every application but overall it is one heck of a workhorse and goes very well with the "typical" DIY subs that are seen on the web.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Coincidentally, the Mass12 was what I was thinking about when I said that it's possible for subs people call "car" subs to be used successfully in a room. There's no mystery there, of course, as its value is obvious from its parameters, specifically its massive linear throw.
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[Robert A]

Jeff,
I build speaker boxes for car audio and home theater. I've had guys put some of the best car audio subs in their HT's and vice versa. The point is that you get so much more speaker for the price with the tempest and shiva. I personally have 3 JL Audio 10w3's in my truck and they are LOUD. But they don't have the low end reach that these better HT subs have. They really aren't meant to. They are meant to produce some seriuos thumping in the 40-60 Hz range. They rely a lot on cabin gain. Most of the time these subs get stuck in a box that is the wrong size for them and they don't live up to their potential, so car audio manufacturers make them louder to compensate. That is another reason why they're so much more expensive. To get a good car sub you have to pay about $250 or more (usually a lot more). We've talked a lot about xmax in this thread as well and alot of the car subs don't have near the xmax of these HT subs ( except ofcouse for the stroker ahh .75" one way). If you were to hook up an 18" stroker to 1500 watts it would beat the tempest pretty easily. But that is a lot of money.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

What is an "18 Stroker", and how much does it cost? Got a link to the specs?
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[Robert A]

Jack,
Stroker is made by cerwin vega. they come in variuos sizes and are very expensive. I think the 18 is $800. Just go to www.cerwinvega.com (I think). They have the biggest xmax I've seen and the win more car audio competions than any other speaker. I'm not sure if you can get all of the T/S param. form the web site, but they do have some of them.
-Rob

 

[Robert A]

Here is the link http://www.cerwinvega.com/products/m...stroker18.html
click on the technical data sheet to see the specs(pdf file).

 

[DanWiggins]

Jeff,
Sean Belanger is the current SC State IdBL champion, and runs Tempests; nailed a legal (on the dash) 153 and change with two Tempests. We'll see what he does at IASCA championships, but my guess is he'll raise quite a few eyebrows, and beat several big names.
Marshall Joyner (AKA Black00) has won every competition he's entered, with a single Tempest and 500W (best is the 152.3 dB SPL run, with a true SQ tune of 23 Hz no less, not 45-50 Hz like most SPL competitors). Currently running a single Maelstrom, estimating he's in the upper 150s with a single driver and 500W (and a higher tune in the 40-50 Hz range). He's getting a comp score later this month, so we'll have that to post, but I think he'll join that rare group of 160s with a single driver and 500W or less of power (numbers around 6 world-wide right now, IIRC).
Scott Stoner posted a 161.3 dB SPL run with twin Tempests, 11 cubic feet of box, and 1200W. Beat his competition by over 5 dB. Is looking to break the 165 dB mark by the end of the year, and I think he'll do it. That would put him in elite company as well; probably fewer than 3 dozen world-wide who consistently top that score. None too shabby for a less than $700 for the sub system (amp and drivers).
There's multiple folks winning competitions and nailing the 150s with single or multiple Adire drivers. In addition, there's quite a few state or world champions looking to run Adire products right now; several of these competitors have units in their hands for evaluation/trial before making the switch (at the extreme of the sport, you don't make changes without knowing that you will improve, and the best want to try before they buy).
Overall, our products are very new in the car market; pretty much just this year. We've made great strides into the market, on the strength of the drivers, pricing, and our tech support. Take a quick peak over at http://www.caraudioforum.com or http://www.soundillusions.net or http://www.sounddomain.com and you'll find dozens of threads about our drivers, and success stories left and right.
Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio
[Edited last by DanWiggins on September 20, 2001 at 10:33 PM]

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Thanks, Robert, got it.
Well, the 18S looks like a typical car sub to me. It has nice displacement, but its high Fs (31Hz) means that the $140 Tempest will begin to outperform it as Fb gets lower, low enough to be used, that is, in a home. If you look at the box they show for the 30Hz tuning, there's almost nothing left at 20Hz.
It's also seriously outdone by the 18" Blueprint 1803 ($249), which has an Fs of 25Hz and a P-P Xmax of almost 52mm, compared to the 38mm of the Vega.
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[Jack Gilvey]

Hi Dan!
I've mentioned this before, but if you guys want to talk Adire in cars (aside from with Dan), get in touch with Kirk at Ampmanaudio.com here in Jersey. Really knows his stuff.
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[Edited last by Jack Gilvey on September 20, 2001 at 10:41 PM]

 

[Robert A]

Jack,
I didn't nessecarily mean that the stroker would be a good HT sub. It is kind of joke I have going with a freind of mine. When most people think of bass they think of the big boom (50Hz) of popular music, which is where most car subs do well. They mistake that for good bass and think they will do well in HT. I happen to build a lot of car sub boxes. It's not that I like it more I just have a much better market for it than for building HT subs. You are absolutely right about the stroker not having the low end. I just read Dan Wiggins post and I'm am very excited about the tempest. I hope it gains even more exposure in the car audio arena. My next personal sub purchase is going to be the tempest. I put some shivas in car for a guy and they were awesome. I just need to build a few more boxes so I can purchase a tempest for myself.

 

[jeff lam]

These subs sound pretty good from what all of you are saying. Do the Shiva and Tempest Drivers work well in sealed enclosures as well as ported? The Rava is sealed isn't it? That houses a Shiva right?
So do all of you think I should get rid of my Audiobahn in my trunk and put in a Shiva???
Guys,
I wasn't trying to start any arguements or harsh attitudes. I was just wondering how a Shiva or tempest would rate against a high end car sub. I did not say the Car sub was better did I??? All of you have lot's of experience in this stuff and I'm sure all of you are right but I haven't seen a direct comparisson yet and I was just wondering how they would compare.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Maybe all of you are biased to these subs because that's all you know and that's all you care about.

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[jeff lam]

Jack,
Now that I reread that it does sound a bit harsh if you cant hear the tone in which I said it. I could have made it a little less direct I guess. Anyway, don't get me wrong, I have given up on Car audio crap and am focussing on H/T so I couldn't agree with all of you more. but I saw this thread and had to see what it was all about and It's just something I have always wondered about being into car audio for years and all. I guess since I haven't heard any Adire Audio subs I wouldn't know how good they are. However I plan to in the near future.

 

[Geoff L]

Jeff,
Dont jump ship on your Audiobahn just yet. Dont know what driver your running, BUT, as Jack suggests post your drivers params to see -if and what might be gained for your desired use.
Audiobahn builds some pretty good drivers for car audio and one of thier lines looks pretty good for some HT designs. Cant remember which line though. (Alum-12 I think) though a little pricey. It would seem you pay alot for those flashy extras, chrome,etc.
MA-Audios MAW line looks fair also for HT use. Much cheaper and apears to be very well built. Specs are posted at thier site.
www.MAAudio.com
Ive picked up two of the MAW-612s for 77.00 apiece threw a friend who can buy direct. Playing with some designs for a friend who wants and needs some ht subs. Man the mark up on this stuff is unreal!! Store bought close to 200.00 apiece, crazy.
Geoff
[Edited last by Geoff L on September 21, 2001 at 07:26 PM]