Canare V3-5CFB: If you've used it, please read...

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Vince Maskeeper, Aug 4, 2002.

  1. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    I am building some component cables with V3-5CFB cable from Canare and have run into some issues I wanted to ask about.
    If anyone here has ever built finished cables using this cable, please email me ASAP:
    [email protected]
     
  2. Hank Frankenberg

    Hank Frankenberg Cinematographer

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    Vince, I have a run of it from my DVD player to my RPTV. I'm in the process of building one for a local customer's front projector, which will be about 20 ft long.
    OOPS, I see you want an e-mail. I just sent you one.
     
  3. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    I have the cable and found that inside the V3 version, the cables have an OD closer to .25 than the real 5-CFB's OD of .303. This smaller cable size seemingly makes it impossible to use Canare's stripping tool that they suggest (the TS-5C, which I have).
    Is anyone here doing V3-5CFB cables and actually using the Canare suggested stripper and die on this cable?
    If you make cables with V3-5CFB, please post here to say what you're using for strippers and die (if you use the TS100 stripper, post what setting you use for V3-5CFB).
    Canare says that the 5 series stripper and die set should be used for this cable, which seems impossible. Of everyone I've talked to via email- none have said they actually use Canare's 5 series stripper on this cable!!
    -Vince
    PS: I even contacted CHRIS WHITE about this problem, as it was his website and discussions here which spawned a lot of the interest in crimp DIY cables (and was the sole reason I ordered V3-5CFB assuming I could use the Canare tools)... and from his reply I gathered that he actually didn't know much about the Canare cables and parts at all. In the end, he said his wife actually built most of their cables.
    I'm still waiting for an return email from his wife on what tools they used for V3-5CFB.
     
  4. Rob Lloyd

    Rob Lloyd Stunt Coordinator

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    Have you contacted Canare? I've called them on the phone a couple times and they were very helpful.

    Let us know how this works out. I was going to order some of this cable for going to my projector in the next couple weeks.
     
  5. Phil A

    Phil A Producer
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    I have found that if I turn it too many times and grip hard sometimes it pulls off everything down to the conductor for the full length or if something gets stuck in the blades it won't cut right. I generally err on the light light side and it either strips it or perhaps leaves just the top to be stripped to the conductor. Whatever does not strip readily I use a simple stripper similar to Radio Shack catalog 278-347. In many cases in tight places (wall plates or where it goes to the projector, I have used the other stripper since the Canare stripper would not readily fit in the work space and I just mark 3/4 inches on the jacket and it is a quick and simple process once you know the proper lengths to cut everything.
     
  6. Greg_R

    Greg_R Screenwriter

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    When I build my cable (V3-5CFB w. RCA terminations) I used the Radio Shack stripper and a delicate touch. I think the Canare stripper needs fine adjustment (besides setting it for the actual cable). I used the Canare crimp dies (w. Canare RCA). If you purchased the parts from Have, Inc., then you may want to call them and see what they use (they build custom Canare cables).
     
  7. Phil A

    Phil A Producer
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    Greg - that is exactly right. The screws in the unit allow for adjustment to the cuts. Vince, sent you a picture of where my screws are set - sorry for the photography quality
     
  8. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    I couldn't really make out the picture- will have to open it in Photoshop and play with it later.

    What I'm confused about is the fact that while the stripper does allow fine adjustment- even setting mine all the way closed is NOT EVEN CLOSE.

    With all 3 blades set to as deep as they will go, it does 2 of 3 strips, each with the wrong blade:
    The 1st blade which is supposed to strip the outer jacket is not deep enought to even touch the cable and thus does nothing,
    the 2nd which is supposed to cut deep enough to cut the braid only cuts deep enough to strip the jacket,
    and the 3rd which is supposed to cut to the core only barely strips the braiding...

    Also, I have a perfect setting for 5CFB and LV77 currently, and hate to have to repeatedly readjust when the V3 should be the same cable!

    I'm still confused with Phil's post. Is your "right grip" assessment of the canare stripper related specifically to the V3-5CFB or for all types of cables stripped using the canare stripper? Are you using the TS-5c series stripper, or the adjustable 100E (it looks from your picture like you're using the 100E). If you're using the adjustable 100E, it's not wonder you can get clean strips- since it's designed to adjust to do any size (including mini-coax).

    The TS-5C stripper is the FIXED size stripper, which is designed only to do 5CFB, V*-5CFB and LV77 cables. The TS-5C series stripper I'm using isn't affected by how you "grip" it- the blades are spring loaded and the user doesn't apply pressure to execute the strip- and you can watch the backside of the blade retainers to see exactly when they have reached their full depth to prevent turning too many times.

    The bottom line is, I can use this stripper for LV77 and 5CFB and get PERFECT strips 100% of the time. No variance, no "sometimes"- it is identical everytime. However, the V3-5CFB coupled with this stripper will not work, despite Canare's insistance that the 5C stripper is correct.


    Again- to anyone else who posst here- please be clear on
    specifically what tools you're using, what experience you have with specific cables. If you're using the 100E stripper, please note what size position setting you have it on.
     
  9. Phil A

    Phil A Producer
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    Yes - use the TS100E which looks like a camera sort of and one turns after inserting teh cable and has that yellow mail-box like flag too. The picture I sent attempted to show the position of the screws relative to the holes on the white plastic piece. The TS100E also has a dial with different positions for the 'V*-5C,' V*5CFB,' 'LV-77S & L-5CFB,' LV-61S & L-4CFB.'
     
  10. Neil_S

    Neil_S Stunt Coordinator

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    I used a three level Ideal Industries stripper from Home Depot. It did a decent job but I had to touch up the outer shield with a razor blade.

    I will definitely agree that the V5-CFB is smaller than the L5-CFB. I had to make adjustments every time I worked on a different set of cables (I finally got smart and did like cables at once :b ).

    It does appear that they market the same stripper for the V5 and L5 cables.

    Neil
     
  11. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    Ironic that the 100E has two different settings for V*5CFB and L-5CFB, but they market the same Stripper (the TS-5C) to strip both.

    Looks like I will have to buy the TS 100. Maybe Canare will upgrade me, since I bought $3000 worth of their cable this month and feel totally hosed that the TS-5C doesn't work.

    A small update:
    I went to radio shack and Home Depot and bought all the coax strippers each offered (I ended up with a total of 5 tools). Of them, only one did a job comparable to what the Canare stripper should do. With some tweaking of one of the Home Depot tools (which in turn inspired some tweaking on the canare stripper)- I managed to get the two to work "tag team" to sorta do the job. It's not as elegant as I would have hoped (nor as quick as the LV77/5CFB strips)- but for now it works.

    Another interesting development:
    Neil_S sent me some photos of the tweak he did with the PE crimp handle and the canare die which provided a 100% better crimp for me. While Chris White's website said the PE crimp frame was acceptable- I always found the crimp mediocre. Using Neil's advice, I shimmed up the dies with small panel nails- and the crimp is two-fold tighter. The crimp on the center pin specifically is wholly different.

    I think after all this is said and done, I'll borrow a digital camera and setup a basic site about Canare building which offers some more in depth info that Dr. White's site overlooked (like the major difference in OD on V*-5CFB and how the TS-5C son't work well with it and the PE Crimp shimming tweak).

    -Vince
     
  12. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

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    Vince,
    So are you saying that the PE handles are not up to par with the Canare handles as everyone suggests? Would you have gotten the Canare ones instead having known this prior even with the higher cost?
     
  13. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    I probably would have still avoided the Canare handles, simply because the PE handle can be "tweaked" for pennies, and will provide a solid crimp.

    The problem seems to actually be the canare die (I'm wondering if they specifically design the die to slightly non-standard to make them work better with their handle). I tried a misc die a friend had in the PE handle, and it fit much better.

    The Canare dies in the PE handle are just a bit sloppy. Even in the proper position, they have too much play. By inserting a pair of small panel nails in behind the bottom die, the die holds much tighter.

    Basically- without the nails- the crimper doesn't meet much resistance until it hit the absolute max tightness. With the nails in place- the resistance hits about 2-3 clicks before max squeeze- meaning that by the time it hits max it is REAL tight.

    So, bottom line is I would still opt for the PR handle, but I think with the asterisk that the shims are absolutely necessary to getting a solid crimp.

    Vince
     
  14. RonM

    RonM Extra

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    Vince,
    It's been a while since I built my cables (from Chris White's website)but I don't recall a stipping problem. I do however recall frustration with getting a good solid crimp on the center pins. Look forward to your webpage with updated instructions...especially confused on the "panel nails" you inserted.
     
  15. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    Ron,

    I'd post Neil's picture here on the forum, but I don't have access to a server right now to post it on. I emailed you a copy- and by looking at the pic, it should be self explanitory.

    If anyone else would like to see the pic, you can email me for a copy- or if someone has a server to post it on, I can link to it here...

    -V
     
  16. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

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  17. Richard Travale

    Richard Travale Producer

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    I recall reading something about if the crimp is too tight you may damage the cable. Would adding the nails possibly damage the cables?
     
  18. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    Richard,

    Doubtful- as the dies can only be "so closed". The die halves go together, so it has a maximum point of crimp where the two halves are 100% together with no gap, creating a perfect crimp that is as tight as is possible. But, because of the design it's not possible to smoosh the cable or "over crimp". Maybe when someone mentioned damaging the cable, them ment if you use a non canare die and it crimped too tight...

    I've done about 100 crimps since I shimmed the dies, and I'm getting perfectly working cables. Th crimps are much more solid...

    -V
     
  19. Neil_S

    Neil_S Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey! That's my carpet [​IMG]
    I agree with Vince that you cannot over-crimp while using the Canare dies. Those dies are SOLID and will not compress any more and over squeeze the cables.
    The first crimp I made (before I figured out the nail trick) was not solid at all and looked like it would fall apart... In fact, while crimping I watched the dies slide back a bit and I could still get the crimp ring to move a bit. I was in the process of re-modeling my home theater room and a box of those nails laying next to me. I decided I needed a shim and they worked like a charm.
    If you've made cables using this setup, throw some shims in there and you will be amazed at the difference.
    Neil
     
  20. Richard Travale

    Richard Travale Producer

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    Vince, that's right. The statement was made about using non canare dies. I guess I just wasn't thinking last night.
    I am definitely going to try this out.
    Oh and Vince, let us all know when you have the site you were talking about up and running.
     

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