Canadian prices for receivers

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by ChrisAG, Nov 25, 2001.

  1. ChrisAG

    ChrisAG Supporting Actor

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    Does anyone know the Canadian prices one would expect to pay for the following receivers at an authorized dealer:

    Onkyo 797

    Denon 2802

    Yamaha 1200
     
  2. Patrick Senez

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    The retail price for the Yamaha RX-V1200 is 1450 $ at the Audio Center.

    You can deal it at around 1275 $ (that's the price they offer me to upgrade from my Marantz SR-5200)
     
  3. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Hey Chris. Here's some of my thoughts about receivers, since I'm in the same boat as you, I think, anyways. You're shopping for a replacement for your SR too, right? Same here. Where did you pick up your Marantz again? I am returning my SR 6200 and looking at the following receivers. Prices are what I've found calling around, the Onkyo prices are quotes which are better than MSRP. For example, I called Hi-Fi 2000 and they quoted prices $200.00 higher each for the 696 and 797. The Onkyo, Integra and NAD prices are quotes from Whitby Audio, where I bought my 6200:

    Onkyo 696 $1349.00

    Onkyo 797 $1699.00 (estimate using 787 current price)

    NAD T-761 $1195.00 demo or $1379.00 brand new

    Yamaha 1200 ? or 2200 ?

    Denon 2802 $1299.00

    Denon 3802 $1699.00

    Integra 6.2 approx. $1525.00

    Integra 7.2 approx. $1900.00

    My deciding factors are different from most, but I am going for music first. I like the 696 and 797 because they have alot of what I want, like a phono input (not on the NAD), an 80 hz crossover (100 hz on the NAD) and bass control center frequency of 50 hz (not so with Denon or integra receivers, no idea about NAD). Plus you can control the bass, treble and sub level via the remote without using the OSD or the front panel of the receiver itself. 797 has 6.1/7.1 and lots of inputs, THX, dts ES and DD EX, over the 696. 696 has powered zone 2 which I don't want or need.

    NAD works well with my DVD player, no dropouts unless you have just turned on the DVD player, but the NAD has 100 hz crossover, no DPL II and no 6.1.

    Yamaha's are ok, but you can't control the bass from the remote as far as I can see. 90 hz crossover is ok I guess, but 80 hz is better. Again, I would need to listen to a Yamaha to hear what the sound quality is like to me.

    Denon's are ok, have a phono input and 80 hz crossover. Also, bass control is centered at 100 hz and I don't like that. Haven't heard any Denon's to comment on sound.

    Weirdly, the Integra's use a 100 hz center freq for the bass control. They also use a 10,000 hz treble control like the Denon receivers. I dislike both choices, as I have used an amp with 50hz bass and 20K treble with positive results. 100 hz bass and 10K treble is akin to boom box tone controls. The 696 and 797 uses a 50 hz bass control and a 20,000 hz treble control which I believe are better. Integra's aren't really a good choice for me anyways, because I don't understand their choice of tone controls and the Integra's are over $200.00 more expensive. Why would I pay that for gold connectors, a detachable power cord and not necessarily better sound?

    I really want the 797, but its way over my budget. The 696 is a serious consideration, I only wish it at least had a pre-out for 6.1 rear center. I have heard that 696 and 797 owners do not seem to experience dropouts. One person has mentioned problems with the 696 and layer changes and extra's on DVD's causing audio drop outs. He has since picked up an RX-V1000 and has no probs.

    One side note, I noticed when using an optical cable, that a Pioneer DVD changer at the dealer cuts out its digital signal while changing discs, this caused dropouts on the NAD. My panasonic CV51 does not cut out the signal during disc changes and therefore it does not experience drop outs using the NAD receiver and yet the Marantz SR 6200 does!! The only time the NAD cuts off the signal is when I first play a CD after having played a DD DVD, which of course means that the receiver is displaying DD, and so it has to detect the PCM now, or after first turning on the DVD player. Couldn't get dropouts any other way. I will try the Onkyo 696 and possibly the 797 and NAD T761 too.

    Are the models you mention above the only ones you are considering or are there others? The sound of the Marantz is good, as I have noticed, so I do not want to trade for something with any decrease in sound quality. But I need to HEAR the sound, right? Drop outs suck!
     
  4. ChrisAG

    ChrisAG Supporting Actor

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    Chris,

    Yes, we are in exactly the same boat. You probably read my post on the other thread where I exchanged my Marants SR6200 for a newer unit, and ended up worse than before. I think Marantz has a lemon line on their hands. Even if the dropout issue is fixed 100%, there is still S-video vertical sync problems for bright edits - that is also something I am unwilling to live with.

    It looks like I will see if I can get my money back. I haven't talked to the dealer (American Sound of Canada, in Richmond Hill) about this yet - I hope they don't give me any trouble. Do you know what the law is on that issue?

    Too bad the alternatives are more expensive than Marantz right now. Maybe the other manufacturers know something Marantz doesn't - that you can't offer the latest 6.1 formats and decent amplification in the package for less than a certain price point without compromising quality in other areas.

    The only thing is, I love the stereo sound quality of the Marantz. I listened to a CD in Source Direct mode last night and said to myself that it has no right to sound that good.

    The Yamaha 1200 seems to be the best buy at the moment, with its 6.1 discreet, wide band compontent video, and extra video input. I'm not sure of the Yamaha sound though. I'll have to audition it. Kromer radio carries both Yamaha and Onkyo, plus that's where I got my Mordaunt-Short speakers. Maybe I can arrange an audition with both units using the MS speakers.

    Since I have the centre rear speaker already, I would not consider anything less than 6.1, which eliminates Onkyos below the 797, Yamahas below the 1200 and Denon below the 2802. I'm not an expert on other manufacturers, but I don't want Sony, Tecnics, Pioneer or Sherwood. I think you have to get the top models in those brands to get any sort of decent quality.
     
  5. Bruce Abar

    Bruce Abar Stunt Coordinator

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    Dont forget you fellow Canadians, do call Len Gerling at 604-832-8109(give him me name), Len will give you an excellent price, and ship to you.(a&b sound)
     
  6. Jagan Seshadri

    Jagan Seshadri Supporting Actor

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    ChrisAG and ChrisPC,

    Is there such a thing as x200 anxiety syndrome? That may explain my nervousness as of late.

    I purchased an SR-5200 a few weeks ago. The first one shorted out, but luckily didn't kill my speakers as I first thought. I got it exchanged for another SR-5200 but I still gingerly press the power button on it, as I've been bitten once.

    The SR-5200 is currently being used in a 2-channel configuration without a monitor or other HT stuff, so I haven't been able to check the S-Video problems and so forth, but I really should test these things. The stereo sound is pretty good (notwithstanding the dropouts and quiet pops at track markers), but though I use Source Direct, I think the bass is a bit overdamped (is this what people mean by "Warm"?)...it seems to lack the punch of my old crappy JVC receiver (especially on the Police track "Synchronicity" when the kick drum comes in).

    Too bad the RX-V1200 costs so much. Fact is, I don't need (or even want) the component video switching, the DSP soundfields, or the multiroom capability. But boy, reading about all these SR-x200 problems makes me want to consider getting the RX-V1200. Still, the Marantz looks better, and has a more solid feel.

    But then again, the SR-5200's remote sometimes doesn't work.

    Damn.

    -JNS
     
  7. Phil

    Phil Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi,
    I just sold my Yamaha RX-V1000 to my brother and replaced it with a RX-V1200. The build and sound quality is equal on both of these fine receivers....but.....I'm going to have to take back my 1200 because it has been "de-engineered".[​IMG] [​IMG]
    My "old" 1000, had "true" Zone 2 cabability. I have a set of Infinity outdoor speakers in the backyard that the 1000 used to send a totally independant audio source regardless of what you were listening to in Zone 1. So the wife could be out rummaging in the garden listening to a CD or radio and I could be watching my satelite, DVD, etc.. inside. To my utter disappointment, the 1200 has a Zone 2, but it has no way of selecting the source, ie. they sould have called it an AUX out because you must listen to the same thing in both ZONES[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] .
    The Yamaha tech rep certainly didn't advise me of this before I bought my 1200. He assured me that Yamaha never "goes backwards" in features on their new models. So tomorrow my 1200 goes back and I may have to replace it with another 1000 or see how much I have to spend to go up to the 2200[​IMG] . I'm sold on the Yamaha's cause their component in/outs handle High Def.
    Just thought people might want to know about the 1200's zone 2 issues.
    Phil
     
  8. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    I don't want to get balastic on stores and dealers, and in my case, I'm more interested in exchanging. But for peice of mind, you are covered, fair and square. You can't necessarily ask for a refund unless you try to have them fix or replace it. Both you and I have done that. If you do want to return the receiver for a complete refund, you are legally entitled to do so. You are covered under the "Sales of Goods and Services Act" and the "Business Practices Act". The first one is that you cannot be sold a faulty product and be stuck with it. If it is faulty, you have every right to return it for warranty coverage.

    If the store, the distributor or Marantz could fix the problem, then we'd be fine. In fact, both you and I would be very happy. I'm telling you, if Marantz could fix these problems, I wouldn't care about finding out that their 6 channel power rating is 70 watts x 6 or whatever, cause its more than enough for me. If the receiver worked the way it was advertised, I would be super happy. It is the perfect receiver configuration and set of features and power for me. Alas, it doesn't work. Even the sales person was very clear when he said. "It definitely doesn't work for you, and I know the DAC's are worth skipping the analog cable.", refering to how I could technically avoid dropouts by playing CD's only via analog RCA cable connection to the receiver. So, we have tried to have our problems addressed under warranty etc, so the next step is to return it. I am not sure if you can fully refund it, but the above acts give you a strong case in small claims court anyways. The second act basically says you can't be duped. Nobody can sell you something by "mis-representing" it, and thats the "Busniess Practices Act". A legal business can't sell you things that aren't what they are said to be. That would be Marantz saying "What audio-drop out problem? Go ahead stores, sell the units, they have no problems." Wrong!

    I really don't want to return the unit for a full refund. I could, and get either a Denon 2802 or Yamaha RX-V1200 but right now, I really want to hold out for the Onkyo TX-DS 797. It is exactly what I want right now. I even prefer it over the Yam 2200 or the Denon 3802.

    If there was a Pioneer Elite or NAD that would compare with the Marantz 6200/7200 or the onkyo 797, then I'd consider it, but like I described in my last post, its not to be.

    Marantz has screwed up so badly. I don't understand how they can do this. If I was in the company and caught wind of this problem, i would go balastic to address the issue and solve the problems. I would want all the customers to be happy. if I was happy, I would be looking at Marantz in the future for CD players, DVD players, amplifiers, pre-pro's, displays etc etc. Now I will definitely have other brands as my first choice list. Sorry Marantz. You have put out a faulty product and not even ackonwledged it! You've wasted 2 months of my time. I could be content to enjoy my system, but I have to shop. I was even willing to exchange for a 7200 or an 8200, but not now.

    Good luck in your search. Does the store you bought your SR at carry Onkyo? If not, perhaps you and I could go to where I bought my receiver and try to get a bit more of a discount for the sale of 2 receivers at once?
     
  9. Phil

    Phil Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi,

    Anyone know of any Canadian sites that have MSRP's? Or a Canadian version of PriceScan? Need them more than ever considering the exchange rate.

    Thanks,

    Phil
     
  10. ChrisAG

    ChrisAG Supporting Actor

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    Chris PC,
    Thanks for the info. If I get the refund as planned, I'd rather shop at Kromer - over the past several months I have purchased $3200 worth of speakers (!) and I have a decent relationship with the sales rep. You're welcome to join me if you like, and hopefully get that '2 buyer' discount.
    Like you, I'd much rather keep a working-as-designed 6200. The sound is fantastic, but I purchased it to function as a digital AV receiver, not an analog audio-only amp![​IMG]
    This is a huge mistep for Marantz. The units may be selling well, but I'm sure there are hundreds (if not thousands) of dissatisfied customers. Internet-savy potential customers are educating themselves to the shortcomings, and dealers are probably getting fed up as well. VERY foolish on Marantz's part.
     
  11. ChrisAG

    ChrisAG Supporting Actor

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    Phil,

    Though the model numbers may suggest otherwise, I believe the Yamaha RX-V1200 replaces the 800, while the 2200 replaces the 1000, so the units have not really been 'de-engineered,' although it does look like the prices have gone up for both. Check out Yamaha's Web site for an html chart detailing the 2200-1000-1200-800 model comparrison.

    By the way, would you say the sound quality of the 1200 vs. the 1000 are EXACTLY the same? I read somewhere that Yamaha has tweaked the sound of the newer models recently (not sure if this is for the better or worse).
     
  12. Phil

    Phil Stunt Coordinator

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    ChrisAG,

    Thanks for the tip, I didn't realize that the 1200 is the 800 replacement!!! I spoke to the rep at Yamaha HQ and mentioned to him that I was "upgrading" to a 1200 from a 1000 and he didn't say a thing. I guess I'll have to fork out the dough for the 2200 then....I know a certain person of the female persuation that is not going to be very happy with me....

    As far as the sound quality goes I do agree that the newer series have improved sound...but that could be just my wishfull thinking....

    Phil
     
  13. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Nice to talk to not only others looking for receivers, and particularly those of us who have had bad Marantz experiences, but better yet is to talk to local GTA people too.
    ChrisAG,
    I will keep your offer in mind. Like you, however, I have spent about $2000.00 + on PSB speakers at the store I shopped at. I will likely try to exchange there first. For the record, what does Kromer carry? For your interest, again, in terms of receivers, Whitby Audio carries Marantz, NAD, Integra/Onkyo, Pioneer Elite, Arcam and Bryston.
    It is true about the defect in the x200 Marantz line. It is likely bothering many, but you would think something this serious would be noticed more by most people. I think it is going less noticed because:
    1) Not all CD's start on 0:00
    2) Not all CD and DVD players cause the problem equally on Marantz receivers. My player is bad, but random and not consistent. Another player I tried was actually worse.
    3) Not all people are using a digitally connected CD or DVD player to listen to CD's.
    Marantz! Fix this problem and I'll keep my receiver! You have 2 weeks, starting tomorrow. Good luck Marantz. fat chance. In two weeks, I'll have saved up enough to go for the onkyo 797 [​IMG]
    Oh yeah, about the prices. Oh my gosh do we ever get ripped off up here! When I look at what people in the USA pay for audio equipment, it is sick. Check out these two examples:
    The Marantz SR 7200 goes for $675.00 USD. Convert that to CAD using a generous 1.65 and you get $1113.00 Canadian and yet the Canadian MSRP is way more than that. the 7200 can be found for $1349.00!! Nuts. What about the Onkyo TX-DS 797. Goes for about $850.00 USD, right? Convert to CAD at 1.65 is $1405.00. I call around and I here that its going for $1900.00!!! Of course the place I deal with gives me a bit better quote of approx $1700.00.
    So why are we getting ripped off? Why do these things cost so much more up here??? I would like to find MSRP's too, but you gotta find that out at the stores. We should really inquire why the price is so much higher up here. Local volume can't be that much higher in the USA. What about Toronto's volume of sales vs smaller US towns?
    Pioneer's Canadian Website is nice. Right out front with the receivers is the MSRP. I think Sony does that too.
     
  14. Bernard L

    Bernard L Stunt Coordinator

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    denon 2802 $1150 is the best I've found in the GTA.
     
  15. Duane_T

    Duane_T Stunt Coordinator

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    I forgot to bookmark some of the Canadian retail sites I've come across recently, but here are a few:
    http://www.glubes.ns.ca/
    http://www.virtualhelpelectronics.co...and/index.html
    On the Marantz, I ended up going with the Denon, mainly because of threads here on HTF. I just didn't want to risk it.
    I got the 3802, for $1400, $1620 or so after taxes. List was much higher, but I've spent a lot of money at the store and so got a deal.
     
  16. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    A 3802 for $1400.00? Where? That sounds cheap.
     
  17. Duane_T

    Duane_T Stunt Coordinator

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    A store here in Saskatoon. I have bought a lot of stuff from them, and have brought in a lot of friends and their business, so they give me some pretty good prices.
     
  18. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Wow. I'd pay that. If I could get an Onkyo 797 for around that much, I'd be happy. The 3802 and 797 go for around $1700.00 at the lowest so far as I have seen. I wonder if I could get it for less. I'd be happy with paying $1700.00 with taxes for a 797, but not before taxes. Over $1500.00 is too much for a receiver.

    Do you deal with a mom and pop store? An independant anyways, right? Not a chain?
     
  19. Duane_T

    Duane_T Stunt Coordinator

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    No, not a chain - I think only the 3 stores here in Saskatchewan. Even another salesguy asked me how I got such a good deal.
     
  20. Sheldon

    Sheldon Stunt Coordinator

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    Duane...www.glubes.ns.ca is really not a retail site.They do have some specials but for the most part they have manufacturer links to the products that they sell.However,I've bought some things from them over the years and found them to be great to deal with over the phone or via email.As is often the case,you can usually can get better deals by negotiating one on one.www.wackeys.com
    or www.wackeywheatleys.com,laserhometheatre.com,and peakaudio.ns.ca are all excellent sites but need to have one on one to get the deals.And of course,their is also futureshop.com
     

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