Can you burn SACD and dvd audio discs?

Discussion in 'Music' started by Tim Dogg, Apr 26, 2004.

  1. Tim Dogg

    Tim Dogg Agent

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    For backup copies of course!If it can be done do you loose any sound quality between the two? Thanks Tim
     
  2. Phil A

    Phil A Producer

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    From what I understand (I am no computer expert) there is stuff out there that would allow the making of DVD-As (not SACD at the moment). I am not sure that it allows the capturing of data in the digital domain (I could be wrong). So it might be a bit better quality than one could get making a CD-R via analog connections but I personally have not seen stuff that will do what you are looking to. You may want to look at posts by real experts (not me) in the DVD-A section of audioasylum.com. I'm sure John Kotches is much more up on this stuff than just about anyone as well.
     
  3. ElevSkyMovie

    ElevSkyMovie Supporting Actor

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    No, it currently cannot be done.
     
  4. Dennis Nicholls

    Dennis Nicholls Lead Actor

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    [​IMG]

    I don't think either Merredian or Sony/Philips makes their encoders available to the public.
     
  5. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Dennis,

    Discwelder has the SurCode MLP option, so if you're willing to pony up the $2495, you can purchase an MLP encoder and use it yourself.

    You have to get DiscWelder Chrome too, which means the total price is $4490 when bundled together.

    So it is out of reach of most, but to say that MLP encoders aren't made public is a bit inaccurate [​IMG]

    Cheers,
     
  6. Will_B

    Will_B Producer

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    There are programs (about $20) which can extract audio from DVDs (and if need be, downmix from 5.1 to 2, which is useful if you love a concert dvd but want to play theaudio in your car), but the only audio that can be extracted at present is the video-compliant audio track from a DVD or DVD-A. (Many DVD-As include a DVD video-compliant audio track, but this isn't really what you were looking for).

    Short answer: No.

    On a related note, I haven't actually seen any DVD-A programs yet, for home musicians (ie the "under $5000" audience). They might exist but if so they aren't common yet. What has been springing up like dandelions lately are programs that allow one to make DADs - Digitial Audio Discs, which is simply digital audio content recorded onto the audio portion of a video-compliant DVD-R or DVD+R. You can fit like 6 hours/99 songs onto a recordable DVD, which is very convenient. (Indeed, if more cars had DVD players I am sure you'd seen many unabridged books-on-tape released as one DVD rather than as 5-part CDs). But these aren't DVD-As, they are just DVDs with audio.
     
  7. Dennis Nicholls

    Dennis Nicholls Lead Actor

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  8. dan-0

    dan-0 Stunt Coordinator

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    How about the cd layer from a Hybrid sacd?
     
  9. Michael St. Clair

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    I believe WaveLab 5 has full DVD-A authoring, up to 24/192, for under $1000.

    Also, it supports 9 groups of 99 tracks, so you could rip a bunch of CDs and burn them onto a single DVD-A at the native 16/44.1 resolution.
     
  10. Phil A

    Phil A Producer

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    Dan - no trouble ripping the CD layer from a hybrid or even a regular CD. I currently use a Pioneer Elite regular audio (vs. PC) CD Recorder to make stuff for the cars. It is easier to rip the CD layer in the digital domain for that purpose than worry about level controls going from analog output jacks (to try to convert the SACD layer to CD) and I doubt I would hear much difference at all, especially in the car. Some have reported problems reading hybrids on certain PC DVD drives.
     
  11. Michael St. Clair

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    I've got a pair of brand-new Toshiba SD-M1712 DVD-ROM drives, and neither can read them. I've also got a recent Optorite burner that has some problems reading them, and a few Dell drives at the office that cannot read them.

    Trust me, I know. I'm always jumping through hoops when I need to rip the CD layer.
     
  12. Michael St. Clair

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    Here are the Wavelab 5 specs relevant to DVD-A:

    * WaveLab 5.0 allows you to create DVD-Audio disks, ie. DVDs with high resolution audio in stereo or multi-channel modes, with pictures, menus, etc.
    * Support all channel modes defined by the specification: mono, stereo, 3, 4, 5, 6 channel surround.
    * Support 16 and 24 bit up to 192 kHz
    * Support 9 groups of 99 tracks. Each group is embodied as a separate Audio Montage.
    * Support for track indexes (up to 99 indexes par track)
    * Semi-automated generation of DVD menus. You can define the styles, layouts, pictures, etc. and menus are generated according to the audio contents like track and group names. It is possible to try the menus anytime from the designer, with the mouse or a remote control emulator as if the DVD-Audio was already in a DVD player.
    * Support for still pictures with video effect transitions, ie. slideshows which are displayed with the music. An Audio Montage track is reserved for this, it’s just a matter of placing the pictures on the time line. Free definition of “Audio Title Sets” to optimise picture loading.
    * Support for gapless tracks as well as “audio in pause”
    * Support for Bonus groups (hidden tracks)
    * Support for Smart Stereo Mixdown (custom coefficients to mixdown from surround to stereo), including real time and offline preview.
    * Support for real-time text, ie. text which appears along the music being played (not supported by all DVD-A players). An Audio Montage track is reserved for this.
    * Support for DVD-Text, a way to assign sophisticated descriptions to the DVD-Audio contents. Useful for archiving (not supported by all DVD-A players).
    * Support for ISRC and UPC/EAN codes.
    * Can import and burn a DVD-Video project (VIDEO_TS folder).
    * Can add data files on the DVD.
    * Template support
    * DVD-Audio grabber: import your DVD-Audio tracks and save them as standard audio files (non protected DVDs). This includes ISRC, real time and static text, track indexes. Useful for archiving.
    * Can instantly transform a CD project into a DVD project without creating new files. More generally, CD and DVD functionalities use most of the same unified interface, reducing the learning curve and the amount of work when working with multiple versions of an audio project.
    * Interface is the same as the renowned one already used to create CDs, that is you have a sophisticated non-destructive audio editing environment and you can render a disk on the fly with any combination of audio effects.

    Audio Montage
    * Video tracks: it is now possible to add video to edit audio in sync with video. Video playback can optionally happen directly in the track, at the audio cursor point .There is also a video tab, to display a larger playback view, as well as to display video frames at the start and end audio selection points. All video formats supported by DirectX 9 are supported.
    * Text tracks: to place DVD-Audio real-time text items anywhere along the time line.
    * Picture tracks: to place pictures used for a DVD-Audio anywhere along the time line.
    * Can now be configured to output between 1 and 8 discrete audio channels. Supports all DVD-Audio channel mode, plus a 8 channel mode.
    * Mixing: each track can be routed and mixed to up to 6 output channels. LFE channel has a LPF filter.
    * Surround Pan control for each track, plus surround pan envelopes.
    * Track effects: up to 10 effects can be added per track.
    * Track Meter: there is now an audio meter for each track.
    * Track name: now possible to name a track.
    * Tracks: now possible to reduce a track’s height by 50% relatively to other tracks.
    * Templates: now possible to save/load more than one template.
    * "Skip selection" is a playback mode that is now available from the transport bar
    * Show/hide/lock clip’s envelope now works for all selected clips, not just the active clip. Same for "show source ruler", "lock clip"
     
  13. Phil A

    Phil A Producer

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    Micheal, even Toshiba home DVD players are noted to have problems with hybrids. I have a friend who had the model 4700 (about 3 yrs. old I think) and he was very annoyed that it could not read hybrids. He took it into a store and every other thing they had in the store (3 or 4 brands)had no problem. I'll have to try them sometime in my brother's Toshiba 4800 I bought him about a yr. and a half ago to see if it does any better.
     
  14. Michael St. Clair

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    Phil,

    Yep, I loaned my 'Let it Bleed' hybrid to a coworker with a Toshiba DVD player and it wouldn't play. I can't remember the model number...it's not from the last two years.
     
  15. RobBenton

    RobBenton Stunt Coordinator

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    The easiest way to rip the sacd layer from an sacd is just to use a cd drive on a computer.. most have no problem reading them.. it is the dvd computer drives that do. Also you can rip the dts or dd tracks off of the dvd-a discs which sometimes can sound pretty close to as good as real thing.. this is handy if you want to make your own compilation disc of surrouns sound music etc.
     
  16. RobBenton

    RobBenton Stunt Coordinator

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    The easiest way to rip the sacd layer from an sacd is just to use a cd drive on a computer.. most have no problem reading them.. it is the dvd computer drives that do. Also you can rip the dts or dd tracks off of the dvd-a discs which sometimes can sound pretty close to as good as real thing.. this is handy if you want to make your own compilation disc of surrouns sound music etc.
     
  17. Tim Dogg

    Tim Dogg Agent

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    I just tried to copy a sacd using Nero 6 and it failed very early.It said somthing about a copy right problem or somthing to that effect.There must be somthing different about the protection on sacd compared to normal cds.
    When I get some time I will try like Rob just said and try to rip it to my hard drive first then copy it too disc.The only problem is I have 2 dvd drives in my computer and not just a cd drive.Not sure if it will work.Ill keep you posted.Thanks for the info though everyone. Tim
     
  18. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Will_B:

    Assuming you can live without MLP, Minnetonka/Discwelder has products starting at $99 for DVD-Audio authoring.

    Cheers,
     
  19. Nick Sievers

    Nick Sievers Producer

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    I've been looking for a program that can do this. What is the best one?
     
  20. Michael St. Clair

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    Unfortunately, if you want to do multiple groups, you have to spend a lot more.

    We live in the era of crippleware...but I understand why.
     

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