can someone explain passive radiators to me? (1 Viewer)

[Jack Gilvey]

I've a dozen DPL-12"s on order, so I anxiously await their arrival for use in a new pure dipole project

You know how to have fun. When you get 'em, you'll be good enough to let me know how they'll fare in a "full-range" speaker, of course. I think that's still the ultimate destination for my quartet...run them as low as they'll go, and roll-in the IB below that. Yee-haa.
Y'know, if you plan on using the 6" flared ports that Thomas did on his HE15 project, you might as well save some money and go with a few PR's.

 

[Anthony_Gomez]

save some money and go with a few PR's.

that is almost counter intuitive

 

[Greg Monfort]

>--dual 18" PR ServoDrive Contrabass.

>apples/oranges.

>You can't compare a direct drive PR system with a
standard PR and call it the same thing - LOL
There is a huge difference between the two.
====
Sure you can, and no, there's not one whit of difference WRT the PR portion of the ckt/BW. A PR is just a vent, it doesn't matter what kind of driver is energizing the air mass in the cab that in turn excites it. The key is in the tuning to get best performance from them.

The question answered though was your "Do they use PR's in prosound?", not comparing performance ~half octave above FB between a servo driven diaphragm and point source driver. That *is* apples/oranges, though the gap is narrowing thanks to better materials/manufacturing technology.

Judging by your responses you either lack a basic understanding of PR designs or are hiding it well, and since you're already predisposed against them there's no point in wasting any more time with you on the subject.

GM

 

[Thy Luc]

I stated that I don't like the sound of PR's
for music - LOL

Some people agree and others stated that they
like the sound of PR's.

Who is the winner of the subjective debate ? LOL

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Who is the winner of the subjective debate ? LOL

You never even entered it, you lack the requisite experience to make any judgement. You still can't tell me what you've heard, and I've been asking for days.

 

[Thy Luc]

--You still can't tell me what you've heard, and I've been
--asking for days.

Read the threads, I already stated my opinions
and consider the matter closed.


O.T.

This forum is funny. The forum regulars are having
a hard time accepting subjective opinions from others
when the opinions are not in their favor - LOL

I like the color black, are you going to argue
for the next week that I shouldn't be liking
the color black because you hate that color ?

Do I have to go to "color school" and pass their written exams, then get some field experience as a painter
in order for my statement to be valid, ie, I like
the color black? LOL

 

[Thy Luc]

After the debate we are headed to Uncle Bucks
steakhouse in Montana to drink bud and eat
some prime rib. Listen to the arguments on
whether the bear taste great or is less filling?
Who is correct? How many years of bear drinking
does one need to be qualified to make judgement?

Do you have to accumulate 1000 hours of heaving to
graduate from apprentice to journeyman beer drinker
or do you just need to drink 10 cans a day for
one year so your opinion is noted ?

Next on the agenda. Should I order my prime
rib rare or medium rare ? I don't know, I'm
not qualified yet, I haven't received my 5 star
certification, a process which requires you to
eat 100 cows in order for judgement to be accepted
by forum peers.

The last stop is the bunny ranch. Which bunny
do you like, the one with "black" hare or "white" hare ?

 

[Dustin B]

Thy, I just did go back through all your responses. Not once do you mention what driver, what PR and in what allignment you've heard PR subs (or if non DIY what commercial models).

Jack has an IB, Ported, Sealed, Dipole and PR sub all in the same room that he has been playing with. Ask and he will provided the exact specifics of enclosure size tuning, driver model and PR model.

Every example you have given can be taken back to support Jack's point of few here. Yes there is the oppertunity for personal preference but if you haven't been exposed to the good stuff, how do you know for sure what you personal preference is.

That prime rib. Where did you get it, what quality. I'm sure if all you've had is some lower grade tough prime rib, rare would be preferred. But if you've never had some tender nicely aged prime rib medium rare, how can you be sure you don't prefer medium rare.

If the only beer being drank is Bud, Coors and some other mainstream crap how can you form a valid opinion. Need RonP here to eleborate on this beer example as I'm not into beer at all.

Black is a little different. The color black is the color black. There aren't other blacks you may not have seen. So you can quickly and accurately form your opinion on it. I'll instantly accept you don't like the color black, I'm sure Jack will too.

This is the key Thy, you HAVE NOT told us what PR systems you have listened to. If you are forming your opinion from bad examples of PR design and projecting that opinion on to all PR designs, then your preference is not valid (in reguards to all PR designs, but is valid to the ones you've heard). If however you have heard some excellent PR designs, then your preference is valid. This is what Jack wishes to establish. If it turns out you've heard what are great examples of a PR design I know Jack will then accept your opinion. Don't expect him to, not knowing what you've heard.

Also please don't come back and say that no ones opinion matters, as nobody can hear every speaker and truely know what their preference is. Generally in a place like this a consensus will be reached on what is the best example of something. If you've heard that best example, or something the consensus figures is close, and you form your opinion off that example, we will accept it. But don't expect us to accept a sweeping statment off of generalizations.

 

[Brian Bunge]

Yeah, Jack's a little stubborn, but he grows on ya!
Gotta love 'em!

 

[Thy Luc]

--Jack has an IB, Ported, Sealed, Dipole and PR sub all in
--the same room that he has been playing with.

That's great. I admire people who experiment with
various configurations and drivers until they find
internal audio peace. That's what I do. I just
don't accept recommendations then blindly
build systems. I prefer to test each driver myself and each
system is designed from scratch to achieve the desired
goals. The only reason I do this is because it's
an audio addiction, otherwise I'd settle for Bose - LOL

--exposed to the good stuff

Isn't this another subjective statement?
What is the definition of "good stuff".

If I listen to your "good stuff", is there a small
chance that I may not like the sound?

But if you listen to my "good stuff", is there
a small chance that you may not like the sound?

You want to know which PR's I've used. To me, they
all have the same sonic personality.

Example; I'm building a crazy system right now using
and array of $600 isodynamic tweeters. The reason
for choosing this driver is simple. This driver
meets my requirements for sound reproduction for
my specific application.


People ask;

"Why don't you just use some JBL, EV or McCauley compression horn tweeters" ?

The response given is the same response I give you
about PR's.

"To me, they all have the same sonic personality."

But, I do like horns just like PR's for certain applications.

The JBL, EV, and McCauley can be considered
"good stuff". If I tell you I don't like horns,
are you going to ask which brands of horn I don't
like ? It doesn't matter, horns have a sonic
personality, even the good stuff has this
personality, it's the nature of the beast.

 

[Dan Hine]

Thy,

All this silly debate (if you can call it that) that you, Jack and others are having about PR's can be ended if you simply mention some of the drivers and PR's you've used and in what kind of alignment. There is nothing necessarily wrong with your opinions. But for those people considering passive radiators and doing research on them, they don't only want opinions, they want to know the credibility of the person giving them. Right now that is where you are severely lacking. I'd like to one day have the funds to build sealed, ported, PR, IB, dipole, and horn enclosures and decide for myself what I like best. But right now, I cannot do that. The reason why I trust the opinions of Jack, Thomas, John, Greg, and all the rest is because they are very open about what designs they have, used to have, what drivers were used, what size the room is, what the goal in sound reproduction was, how close it came to meeting or how far it exceeded their expectations, etc..etc...

Those are the people I will trust and ask advice from. Don't be surprised if very few people trust someone who says "I don't like them. They all sound the same and that's just the way it is." It's all about credibility my friend. And there are a lot of people here just waiting to give you some. Why not step up and give us a reason to?


Regards,

Dan Hine

 

[Thy Luc]

--But for those people considering passive radiators and
--doing research on them, they don't only want opinions,
--they want to know the credibility of the person giving
--them.

I'm not trying to convince people that I'm right.
I'm just placing my vote in the hat on what I
like and don't like. It's up the person whom
is doing research to digest all the data and
form a conclusion that meets their needs.

Research is good, keep an open mind to all possibilites.
The only true method to know what you desire is to
try it for yourself after digesting all the data.
Try to audition sealed, vented, and pr systems
to put the nail in the coffin on what you like,
it's the only way to find happiness. I never finalize a
design until I test it first to see if it meets my goals,
no matter what people tell me, good or bad.

If I want to buy a car, I must test drive all
candidates or do I just trust people on forums
to tell you which car I should like?

Try searching other forums, you will be surprised
that each forum is similar to a street gang
protecting their turf and any opposite opinion
yields gang violence - LOL

Each forum seems to push certain brands of product/
configurations, and some forums have people with bionic
ears which require $5000.00 of interconnects
to fix the problem - LOL

Forum hop and do more research, come to your own
conclusions and don't fall prey as people try
to push you in a certain direction. I see this
all the time on forums. This is the best amp,
this is the best woofer, this is the best tweeter, etc.

--It's all about credibility my friend
Credibility doesn't not = good.

Ford is a credible car manufacturer, but I don't admire
their cars - LOL

What if I told you my name was Bob Carver (well that
explains everything - LOL), the famous and controversial
amplifier designer. His new tracking downconverter
patents used in his Sunfire amplifier will rule the earth?
Does that automatically mean you must like the
sound of my Sunfire amplifier because I'm a credible
source of circuit design ?

Who is the better amplifier designer? Curl, Pass or
Carver? All credible sources, yet people on the forums
have 180 degree opinions, whom do you trust?

Trust yer ears, that is what Nelson Pass said
recently on the forum I visited.

--if you simply mention some of the drivers and PR's
--you've used and in what kind of alignment

This is not relevant. As I pointed out earlier,
the nature of the beast (PR) has a sonic personality
regardless of driver/configuration. Horn tweeters have a
sonic personality regardless if using inexpensive
Eminence horns or using high end JBL, EV, horns.

If I could have it my way, I would prefer the underground
bass horn over everthing else - LOL

 

[Thy Luc]

/Peek into my crazy mind
Since you pry and wonder why
PR's just don't get me excited,
lets rewind 15 years ago when I was
a wee lad with crazy ideas.
/joke
I was walking down a dark alley one night
and got mugged by a gang of passive radiators,
since then I vowed to rid PR's of all existence.
I built a secret lair inside the mountain
and started to create my hell van to hunt
down those nasty PR's.
Picture if you will a beat up old
1978 Dodge van, open the side
doors and this is what you see.
http://dreadlordpk.50megs.com/cgi-bi...n/system-2.JPG
What you don't see is the 18" woofers inside the van.
The plan was to build this, but I never did
due to $$$ issues.
http://dreadlordpk.50megs.com/cgi-bi...n/iso-horn.GIF
So when commisioner Gordan calls on the bat phone,
the hell van emerges.
What has my evil mind been working on since?
Don't even ask - LOL

 

[Bill Fagal]

Looks like a white flag to me.
Alright all you PR pitbulls, release your grip on this poor guy's throat and let him escape with whatever dignity he can muster--I think it's important to him. I'm sure he's sorry he ever gave in to the impulse to chime in and let his reach overextend his grasp. C'mon, isn't there a thing called a second chance?:frowning:
He'll never take the "passive" in PR for granted again. And if he does, I'm sure y'all will be waiting.

 

[Thy Luc]

I challenge thee.

My isobaric horn loaded woofer array [tm, 1987]
against your whimpy PR's ....

LOL

I smell fear in thee..

heheheh

 

[Greg Monfort]

>Try searching other forums, you will be surprised
that each forum is similar to a street gang
protecting their turf and any opposite opinion
yields gang violence - LOL
====
Hmm, I browse quite a few, and unfortunately it's true of many, but I don't consider this to be one of them or I wouldn't waste time posting here.

Something else the others have also is Trolls, and you're doing an excellent job of convincing me you're one, but I'm not a moderator so it's not my call.

GM

 

[Thy Luc]

--but I don't consider this to be one of them

Grasshoppers

I could be wrong, but my research has indicated
this. Let me know if I'm wrong.

Madisound forum - people there talk about
full range sound systems, they broke
the "low pass 60hz" barrier and explored
the uncharted region of audio known as
"61hz - 20khz". This was accomplished
many moons ago.

Can I find any good discussion here besides
subwoofers and using PR's ? Perhaps
I'm in the wrong section - heh

I find the same thing on the car audio forum
minus the PR fanatics, all they talk about
is subs, how can I hit 170db, which gigawatt
class d should I power my Brahma's with?
Boring!

You can call me a Troll, I play D&D and this
Troll understands full range music. It's
your turn to roll the dice...

whoops... no saving throw...
Troll hits torso for 100 damage.

LOL

 

[Shawn Solar]

Well when designing and building subs and speakers its hard to hear what the other guy has. By saying it sounds warm or bright or it doesn't sound good does not give someone at the other end of a computer a good sense of what you are hearing. So objective graphs and description of what and where you listen to and even brand can help give a better overall picture of what you are experiencing. by saying "pr's sound bad" is vague at best when someone is trying to understand how you came to your conclusions.

When someone tries to explain why you may not like pr's or gives an explantion as to how pr's can sound good you simply reply "pr's don't sound good" It almost reads like you are ignoring them instead of engaging in a debate or giving a response as to why you don't like them. If you provide info on what you listened to or what you make your comparisons on I think you'll find that no matter what your opinion is, it will be respected. This is the advanced section and adjectives only go so far to descibe things. Data is always welcome.

 

[ThomasW]

Something else the others have also is Trolls, and you're doing an excellent job of convincing me you're one, .

Greg
I was just about to post the same thought. Either that or possibly someones stopped taking their meds :wink:
He also took stuff from posts on the MAD board and put into his post on this thread. People can see the original post here.
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/dis...gi?read=213092
Maybe it's time for Patrick Sunn to clip his wings.....

 

[Jack Gilvey]

I was walking down a dark alley one night
and got mugged by a gang of passive radiators,
since then I vowed to rid PR's of all existence.
I built a secret lair inside the mountain
and started to create my hell van to hunt
down those nasty PR's.

That was very funny. Peace. You're welcome to come hear my PR sub anytime, and I mean that.
I was attacked with a tube amp once, the police determined it was a bias crime.