Can Paradigm dealers sell below MSRP?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by TerryHub, Feb 13, 2003.

  1. TerryHub

    TerryHub Stunt Coordinator

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    I am a long time B&W speaker owner/fan. However, I've got the itch for something new. I just got my SVS 20-39 PC+ last Wednesday and now am planning on a speaker purchase. Here's what I'm looking at:

    (1st choice)
    Front: Paradigm Studio 20
    Center: Paradigm Studio CC

    (2nd choice)
    Front: B&W 601 S3 (possibly 602 S3)
    Center: B&W LCR600 S3

    Here is the question: I called the Paradigm dealer to verify stock, demo availability, and price. The dealer told me I'm going to have to pay retail on the Paradigms or he could have his dealership pulled. Is this correct? If not, and I like the Studio's, can someone direct me where else to go?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Chris Quinn

    Chris Quinn Screenwriter

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    Most dealers I have experience with for Paradigm will sell about 10%(15% if you get real lucky) under MSRP.
     
  3. Chriss M

    Chriss M Second Unit

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    The paradigm dealer in my area will give you 15% off just for walking in the door, maybe more if you really wanted to negotiate. It's definitely not a high-end shop, more like an audio equipment warehouse though.
     
  4. Doug Schaefer

    Doug Schaefer Auditioning

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    I've visited three Paradigm dealers. The discounts I received (without any negotiating or "strong arming" on my part) were from 7% to 17%. I would definitely demand a discount off of retail.
     
  5. Matt Odegard

    Matt Odegard Stunt Coordinator

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    Since your in Wisconsin you might as well drive up to Canada and get the real deals. There is a dealer in Thunder Bay, which is 2.5-3 hrs NE of Duluth. Just follow the North shore and you're there. Plus its a beautiful drive, a definite bonus.

    I'd say you'll save a good $300.

    BTW, what dealer did you contact? One in MN, or WI.
     
  6. Paul Gere

    Paul Gere Second Unit

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    Terry,

    Great choice in speakers!

    If the dealer you're talking about is Suess Electronics of Appleton, give it up. Won't budge.

    [​IMG] WARNING: Rant ahead! [​IMG]
    I moved to WI from NJ about 2.5 yrs. ago. I got all my Paradigm stuff in NJ before moving and grew accustomed to +/- 15% discounts on anything (including Paradigm). After three separate failed attempts to "negotiate" with the folks at Suess on everything from a high dollar sub to an Anthem AVM-20, I now refuse to enter the store. I don't expect deep discounts, but DO expect to pay SOMETHING below MSRP! As a result, Suess has lost thousands in lost sales from me.

    My impression is that Suess (and perhaps other dealers like them in smaller markets) feel they don't need to discount, as they're the only show in town. They forget about the internet.
    [​IMG] END Rant [​IMG]

    If you're dealing with someone other than Suess, my apologies, but the same rules may apply there.

    Other suggestions for a better deal? You might try dealers in Mpls. or Chicago. As suggested above, you might consider a trip to Canada. You might also consider quality used stuff listed here or at www.audiogon.com
     
  7. kevitra

    kevitra Second Unit

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    10% off at my local dealer.
     
  8. TerryHub

    TerryHub Stunt Coordinator

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    Paul,

    Bingo! Yes it is Suess in Appleton. The guy sounded okay on the phone, but obviously he doesn't want to sell anything to me. That's too bad really. I was fully prepared to go, listen, love, and buy. I seriously have not paid MSRP for anything in my life other than the SVS (but that was COMPLETELY worth it - I almost feel like sending them MORE money). I will not start now with this guy.

    Anyway, if I were to go to Suess, like the speakers and thank him for his time, doesn't anyone have an audio shop I could contact in WI and have the things shipped to me?

    And I truley like B&W. I think Sound World sells those right across the street from Suess[​IMG]

    Thanks.
     
  9. Paul Gere

    Paul Gere Second Unit

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    Terry,
    Hi neighbor!
    Arrogant, indifferent and aloof might be some good words for the folks at Suess.

    I agree SVS is worth every penny and more.

    Yeah, Sound World is great. That's where my business goes today (for the stuff I want that they carry). See Bruce there - he's the best and most knowledgeable guy I've ever met in his business -like an old sage college professor. Sound World WILL discount.

    Wish I had another option for you for Paradigms.
     
  10. Mike OConnell

    Mike OConnell Second Unit

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    Terry,

    What finish are you looking at and are you willing to buy used? I may have a suggestion or an offer for you....

    BTW, I purchased 60's, CC, ADP's, and In-ceilings from my local dealer and got nearly 20% off retail.. Luckily, we have two Paradigm dealers in the KC metro area.

    Mike
     
  11. MarcVH

    MarcVH Second Unit

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    Paradigm dealers can give discounts, but I'm not sure they're allowed to quote discounted prices over the phone. If you were physically in the store, you might (or might not) hear a different story. It might help to go in to buy the mains, but let them upsell you to buy the center as well.

    Then again, some dealers are arrogant, and Paradigm's policies prevent effective competition.
     
  12. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Goodness. This same price fixing thread AGAIN? Come on. I dare you to find any speaker as good for the price. MSRP as it is is an amazing bargain. If you feel better getting a "sale" on an average product at the same price, fine. IMO the studio 20s are worlds ahead of the 601s. Even mini-monitors are better, and cheaper too. I don't understand why people expect "sales" on everything. I mean, the studio 20s are better than comparably priced B&Ws. So, go up the line, you'd be spending at least several hundred dollars more, yet just because you can't get a little off MSRP on a cheaper, better product, you're willing to pay MORE for LESS performance? I don't get it... They're worth every penny as it is. Hell, the B&Ws are too.



    So you are going totally blind, and shunning them just because the guy won't give you a deal. Amazing. You haven't even demoed yet. Sheesh. Why don't you go listen, and pick the best speaker in your budget. Who CARES if you don't get a special discount.

    "gee. The grocery store won't give me 10% off. Well, so much for eating...."

    [​IMG]
     
  13. TerryHub

    TerryHub Stunt Coordinator

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    Chris,

    You missed the point. So many people are getting 10% plus off Paradigm MSRP. The store that's closest to me won't. What makes them special? I was looking for somewhere else to buy if I really did like them over the B&W's. Sorry, I'm not an uninformed buyer. The fact that they won't budge off MSRP tells me that they really don't want MY business.

    Hey, I'm heading to Chicago (south side) on business Monday or Tuesday next week. Any Paradigm dealers I should go see there?

    Thanks.
     
  14. StevenW

    StevenW Second Unit

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    I found it to be absolutely amazing how much profit dealers make on speakers. I know someone who works at The Good Guys who showed me their cost on speakers like Energy, Klipsch, Polk, etc. Say a pair of front floorstanding speakers had a MSRP of $1000, the store actually buys it for around $400-500.
     
  15. Dave Ma

    Dave Ma Stunt Coordinator

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    I have found some to do 20% off or better. Depends on how much you buy[​IMG] That dealer is full of it, shop eleswhere[​IMG]
     
  16. Paul Gere

    Paul Gere Second Unit

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    Chris,
    In Terry's defense...
    It is not unreasonable to expect a discounted price on the purchase of an item when it is commonplace for dealers of said item to offer prices below MSRP. When discounting becomse pervasive (as it has in this industry), MSRP becomes meaningless, as the "true" price is, in fact less than MSRP. Only a fool would accept MSRP under such circumstances when there is precedence for discounting (just look at all the other posts in this thread that make the point!). If a dealer won't discount, it's the buyer's perogative to find one that will!

    You didn't pay sticker price on your car, did you?
    You didn't pay the asking price for your home, did you?
     
  17. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Ok.... Paradigm to me is like SVS. They are so much better, and considerably cheaper than the competition, that just because you can't get a deal, doesn't mean it's not worth it.

    Would I buy a Bose product without like 90% discount? No. It's not worth MSRP at all. SVS, Paradigm, etc. etc. are already at bargain prices. I got 10% off my Paradigms, but I had to wait 3 months for a sale, because dealer wouldn't budge. So what. I would have happily paid MSRP for them.
     
  18. Richard Burzynski

    Richard Burzynski Second Unit

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    My dealer friends tell me that they can't talk Paradigm discounting over the phone - supposedly, Paradigm will "check" on certain dealers from time to time. They will also check to see if a dealer is willing to mail order the product - which they're not supposed to either. Accounts will be pulled for these types of "violations."

    If you walk into the store (face to face), the dealer can discount at their own discretion. I'm in NJ and I can verify that local dealers here ARE willing to discount.

    The amount of the discount depends on the individual retailer (snobby boutique type stores here also offer poor discounts, while we have a good share of friendly authorized dealers as well). Then there are the unauthorized dealers that offer GREAT discounts if you pay cash and form a nice little relationship (not too hard to do).

    Here in my state, the A/V consumer is definitely spoiled, as we have LOTS of dealers selling same/similar gear, which gives us better pricing for obvious reasons. I feel for you guys that have one local dealer who knows it.

    Rich B.
     
  19. Dan Joy

    Dan Joy Supporting Actor

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    Chris,
    I see your point and it's wonderful that you are so enamored with your Paradigms. I on the other hand will only pay full MSRP when I truly have to have the product at the time and there is no way in hell I can get it cheaper. I always said that I would never buy speakers over the net, Boy, SVS made me eat that crow! I think it is great the way Paradigm protects its dealers. Here is my little story. I need to upgrade my inwalls for my SACD and DVD-Audio multichannel listening. After weeks on the net and in stores, I was limited to a couple models due to size and cost. The Paradigm AMS300 were a perfect fit. The only problem was that the local dealer (as a group) has a custom install preference and can come off quite arrogant. The MSRP is 550.00 US for this model. I walked in with 425.00 cash ready to but and they looked at me like I insulted them. I politely left and went to the Paradigm website to find other dealers. I found one 40 miles away, called him not knowing their policy, and he told me he could come down over MSRP but could not tell me over the phone. He was polite and very knowledgeable. I drove down, and Long story short, walked ouot paying around 35% off Msrp! Yes, I am quite fortunate, but I will go back. So yes, they can sell below MSRP.[​IMG]
     
  20. MarcVH

    MarcVH Second Unit

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    In a seller's market, it's not uncommon for both homes and cars to sell for above the asking/sticker price. This can happen when the supply is not sufficient to meet the demand.

    In the case of Paradigm speakers, there's no shortage of supply. There is a shortage of authorized retailers, but that's an artifical shortage created by company policies. It's also clear that MSRP doesn't already reflect slim margins, since some dealers discount heavily, to say nothing of how much you can save if you buy them in Canada.

    The theory, I guess, is that these dealers will make enough money to stay in business, and will provide better service because they can focus on it rather than trying to manage razor-thin margins. Sometimes that happens, and if you want and use dealer services like at-home auditions and trade-up policies then it's only fair to expect to pay for them.

    Unfortunately, there can also exist dealers who treat the margins as a cash cow and don't provide great service. Suppose your dealer effectively says to you "I hate you and you're wasting my time. I can give you advice but it will be laughably wrong. I don't do in-home auditions, and I don't have the model you want in stock. I can order it for you, but you must commit to buy it. Refunds are for store credit only, and I don't carry any other brands that interest you, so in practice there are no refunds." Such a dealer isn't adding any value, and it's quite reasonable to expect customers to look elsewhere.
     

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