Can Criterion Survive in Today's Market? (1 Viewer)

[Mitty]

If Criterion managed to eke out an existence in the much smaller LD market, and survived the earlier days of the DVD market, why shouldn't they survive in today's market, which is growing?
The percentage of people who appreciate what Criterion does is diminishing, but the TOTAL number is rising, and that's all that matters to their success. The percentage number is irrelevant; if anything it represents an opportunity.

 

[Barry_B_B]

Good, got in on this before someone mentioned my line of thinking. I have a VHS copy of The Rock begging to be replaced; to anyone that owns the Criterion version, what does it offer over the mainstream release that justifies or even tempts purchase? I had a couple Criterion releases on my list like The Seventh Seal and Robocop, but discovered Robocop isn't 5.1 DD which I'd prefer

 

[Will_B]

Probably has less to do with whether customers like Criterion, then it has to do with whether or not studios will say to themselves "why should we license this film out to Criterion when we could do it ourselves?"
The studios might start to notice how Criterion doesn't sell their commentary tracks or anything, so under their current arrangement it is not even as if they know that in the future, their temporary license to Criterion will result in a damn thing except for a loss of their own potential sales of that title.
It all depends on whether or not the $ the studio makes from Criterion (Criterion paying them for the license, or paying them a portion of each disc sold) is greater than what they expect they'd make if they did it themselves. The incredibly high prices of Criterion titles suggests that Criterion is barely able to justify the studios decision. As the studios further solidify their relationships with the myriad of companies that make special edition material, then it will be tougher and tougher for Criterion to make it worth their while. That's my guess. I don't know.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

I'm not as big of a film connoiseur as some people here (What in the hell is the Discrete Charm of the Bourgiese anyway? The cover had what looked like to be a pair of lips or a hamburger on legs which is probably why I'm curious as to what the movie is about), but I've come to embrace the Criterion Collection as the quintessential way of making DVD's. They've come to be the standard by which all other DVD studios should follow. Fox has their 5-star and Columbia TriStar has their special editions, but Criterion was the first on the map to give movies the star treatment. And they can only get better. They will survive because they keep producing a high quality product, they're always in demand by not just high-end elitists but by some J6Per's like me, and of course, the high price tag. I have in the CC
Brazil
Seven Samurai
Silence of the Lambs
The Rock
Armageddon
Robocop
Beastie Boys Video Anthology
And I'll keep buying more.
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"I don't know, Marge. Trying is the first step towards failure." - Homer J. Simpson

 

[Randy_M]

And who else would issue the British Hitchcock's that are now in the public domain, and lovingly restore them:
The Lady Vanishes
The 39 Steps
'Nuff said

 

[Douglas_H]

Personally, I think Criterion is poised to thrive in today's video market.
Mitty makes an excellent point regarding Criterion's ability to stay in business during the LD era, the nichiest of niche markets. I loved renting LD players and discs and spending a rainy weekend watching movies in widescreen glory. I never invested in VHS/Beta because I didn't like the idea of getting screwed out of 1/3 of the image. I never invested in LD because of the expense and lack of supporting audio equipment to go with it.
I do however invest in DVD because it is, IMO, worth investing in. I also believe that Criterion releases are the best investment going because of the quality of the MOVIES themselves. Many people get hung up in the specwars, anamorphic, 6.1, 7.1, 88.1, 3 discs of never before-seen outtakes, behind-the-scenes smoke breaks and the Director's Brother's cut.
I like paying extra for Criterion because I like what they do and what they stand for, releasing films that aren't mainstream, LCD crud(Armageddon excepted).
Instead of strictly saying "I think" Criterion will survive I also hope they survive because without some independent producers all you'll be able to buy is what you see in your local SchlockBuster.

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

To answer Barry regarding The Rock. If you want the definitive version, get the Criterion. Two discs. Anamorphic, Dolby digital and DTS 5.1 sound. Commentary. Interviews, outakes, documentaries plus storyboards and stills.
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[SteveGon]

I love Criterion and will continue to support them. What other studios/companies (except for Columbia with their excellent editions of His Girl Friday and It Happened One Night among others) would lavish such attention on older titles like Sullivan's Travels?
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"Death's at the bottom of everything, Martins - leave death to the professionals!"
"Mind if I use that line in my next Western?"
[Edited last by SteveGon on August 30, 2001 at 12:14 AM]

 

[Dave F]

Every few months someone poses this question, and Criterion continues to do well.
-Dave
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DVD List

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Especially if they announce at the chat that they have rescued the entire Ghibli catalog from rodent oppression
(Fat chance, I know, but I can dream can't I?)
Jeff Kleist

 

[cafink]

Especially if they announce at the chat that they have rescued the entire Ghibli catalog from rodent oppression

Is there any reason to think that this might happen, or is it purely wishful thinking? ::crosses fingers::

 

[Ike]

(What in the hell is the Discrete Charm of the Bourgiese anyway? The cover had what looked like to be a pair of lips or a hamburger on legs which is probably why I'm curious as to what the movie is about)

The Discreet Charm... is a good point maker. Universal or Fox or any other studio that we claim is great because they release a 2 disc 3-D menu loaded set of some fluff blockbuster would never give this such a great transfer, or a 2nd disc for a documentary on the director.
And to answer you question, the painting on the front really is more of an abstract painting than anything literal to do with the film.
The film is about a group of socialites, 3 couples, who are invited to dinner. Through a series of events, they continually are interrupted from getting to eat. The film is surrealistic, dreamy, and brilliant. It's also darkly funny, and thought provoking. But one of the key words is surrealist. Bunuel's, the director, first film was with the abstract painter Salvador Dali.
Surrealism in Discreet is done brilliantly. Characters that are only briefly introduced talk about their traumatic childhoods, complete with child murders and ghosts. Their are femme fatale terrorists, cocaine runners, dream scenes, bloody sadistic cops, and a whole cavalcade of ridiculous character that make sense only in a dreamy surrealistic state.
Give it a shot, it's definitely a brilliant film.
I think the people that criticize Criterion are the ones that own the obvious-The Rock, Chasing Amy, Armageddon, Silence of the Lambs, Robocop. But the one's that I love are the quirky little foreign films-Tarkovsky's Andrei Rublev, Fellini's Nights of Cabiria, Kurosawa's Seven Samuari, Powell's Peeping Tom, etc. Will they survive?
Yes, because they provide a product normal studios don't. They are the voice of the movie fan. If they are silenced, we will have no one to provide for us. I go to a store, and I see a Criterion, I have a better than average chance it's a good film, sans the Michael Bay films that are there to fill the blockbuster gap, and to provide a boost in funds. Will Amarcord get stocked at Wal-Mart? No, but that's sort of the point.

 

[Bjorn Olav Nyberg]

quote:
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Especially if they announce at the chat that they have rescued the entire Ghibli catalog from rodent oppression
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Is there any reason to think that this might happen, or is it purely wishful thinking? ::crosses fingers::

Actually, Buena vista is one of the few studios that still licence their titles to Criterion, even if they can not pick and choose anything. The upcoming Hitchcock titles are for example licenced from BV. As for Ghibli, I've read speculations on this forum that Disney are keeping them off the market to avoid competition with their own product, but I find that a little hard to believe. As have also been pointed out several times, Ghibli and Disney animation does not really have much more in common than technique, and if they decide they do not see a profit in releasing them on their own, there isn't really a reason why they couldn't release these too. Of course, speculations are essentially pointless since BV are pretty tightlipped anyway, and I'm sure there's no love lost between them and most of us either way.
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[Edwin-S]

I can not really see this company going out of business. They provide a valuable service. I picked up "WAGES OF FEAR" for about C$65...was it worth it?...(shrug)..it is hard to say, however, I believe that this film probably would not have seen the light of day if Criterion had not bothered to produce the disc. The film was quite good (except for the end) but I don't think a mainstream studio would have touched it with a ten foot pole; mainly because the potential return on investment would have been relatively low, for a strictly profit based operation. Criterion has to make back their money for each release but it is obvious by the list of films produced, that profit making is not their absolute number one priority. I have picked up "The Hidden Fortress" and "Wages of Fear" on DVD and "Seven Samurai" on LD, none of which were cheap and found something to like from each of them. Criterion, OTOH, could drop the price of "Armaggedon" to C$9.95 and I would not buy it because I think it is cinematic puke.....absolute garbage, no matter how good it looks.
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[Rich Malloy]

Bunuel, Dreyer, Bergman, Kurosawa, Renoir, Tati, Eisenstein, Fellini, Fuller, Powell & Pressburger, Cocteau, Clouzot, Kiarostami, Sturges, the Maysles Bros., von Sternberg, Sirk...
These are the masters. If you don't know these directors, you don't know movies. You have a big gaping hole in your cinematic experience.
Those who tend to misunderstand Criterion's role or underestimate their importance are those who tend to only have DVDs like RoboCop, Silence of the Lambs, The Rock, Armageddon, Chasing Amy, and other anomalous Criterions. There's nothing necessarily wrong with these films, but they do not represent the bread-and-butter titles that Criterion's core audience is interested in. I have over 80 Criterions, but I don't have The Rock or Chasing Amy or Armageddon, and I'm not interested in those movies. That's not what I love Criterion for. That's not what makes them special.
It's the Janus Collection. No one else has anything comparable to it. You have no idea how thrilled I am to see a favorite film or a great new discovery preceded by the two faces of Janus. That means it's Criterion's. That means it won't languish in the archives of a big studio that doesn't see the value of it. That means its not in the hands of a Fox Lorber or other second-rate studio with an "arthouse" bent. That means I can count on a first-rate DVD of a film that others wouldn't touch or wouldn't bother to do well.
It's those who don't care about these films who can't comprehend Criterion's importance.
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"Only one is a wanderer; two together are always going somewhere."

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Al's Criterion Collection

 

[DannyS]

Verhoeven, Gilliam, Demme ,Reiner, Fincher
These are the masters of TODAY.
They belong with the above masters.
My criterions
se7en
Spinal Tap
Brazil
Rock
Robocop
Silence of the lambs
Riffifi
Life Of Brian
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[Matthew Kiernan]

Criterion/Home Cinema Vision (their VHS unit) also has a deal with Railto pictures for all of their current and upcoming theatrical restorations and re-releases, such as the current releases of Bunuel's THAT OBSCURE OBJECT OF DESIRE and Godard's BAND OF OUTSIDERS. That, in addition to the vast Janus Films catalog and their licensing deals (not just with Buena Vista and Universal, but also Anchor Bay), should keep Criterion around for a long, long time.
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Matthew Kiernan

 

[Richard Kim]

Well, Rouslan, for the two John Woo titles the Criterion versions are considerably better in every concievable way - extras, transfers, compression, even the subtitle translations are more accurate

Actually, the Winstar version of The Killer actually has the more accurate subtitles. The Criterion version uses the "Numbnuts/Butthead" nicknames, while the Winstar uses "Mickey Mouse/Dumbo" which is preferred by John Woo.
Also both the Criterion and Winstar versions of The Killer and Hard Boiled have identical transfers.

 

[Rich Malloy]

Verhoeven, Gilliam, Demme ,Reiner, Fincher
These are the masters of TODAY.
They belong with the above masters.

That's all well and good, and I won't dispute your opinion (even though I think Abbas Kiarostami, Hou Hsia-hsien, Edward Yang, Kore-eda, Sokurov, and a bevy of others are far more masterful directors than any on your list).
But the point is that all the directors you cite are mainstream favorites and have major studio backing. They don't get forgotten or marginalized when it comes to the DVD releases.
But the list of directors I cited, generally speaking, don't and wouldn't get that kind of treatment from the major studios. Without Criterion, we'd be stuck with nothing or subpar Winstar/Fox-Lorber stuff.

 

[Ike]

Al's exactly right. I haven't seen a lot of films from the directors on his list, I'm trying, and I can see them in a brilliant presentation because of Criterion.
Are they going to look great on your 16x9 TV, or blair out of all of your speakers with great surround? No, but what you get instead is so much more important.
I love the little details in Criterions. The essay you get. The simple menus. The indexed commentaries. The edited together commentaries (I used to hate this, but now consider it one of the best methods.) The packaging. When you buy a Criterion, you are buying something special. I like paying $40 for a Criterion, because when I look at my collection, it makes them extra special. Is that stupid? Sure. But $40 for a brilliant film, as compared to $30 for a stupid film is worth it to me. If you think your overpaying in terms of supplements, then just tell yourself that extra $5-$10 is going to better films. If all the studios priced the releases on the artistic quality of the films, I'd like to see any of us shelling $30 for ID4.