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Can BR Be Pan&Scan? (1 Viewer)

Johnny Angell

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In the world of DVDs we were always worried, was it anamorphic, was it pan&scan? Can I assume it is a given, that any BR disc will not be a pan&scan version and is, where applicable, anamorphic?

I'm not asking is the disc in the correct aspect ratio, since that is often a question of great debate. But can there be a pan&scan BR?
 

Sanjay Gupta

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If it's not 'original aspect ratio', then it is Pan & Scan. Thus to answer your question, technically there is nothing to stop from Pan & Scan transfers being ut on Blu-ray discs. I just hope, better sense prevails with the pan & scan loving consumer as they switch to HDTV (16:9) and Blu-Ray discs.
 

Joseph DeMartino

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Not true. "Pan and Scan" describes a particular process for showing a widescreen movie on a narrower screen. But a film could be transferred with an other-than-original aspect ratio by opening up the mattes, cropping or zooming.

You are, of course, correct that from a technical standpoint there is nothing magical about Blu Ray that would prevent someone from putting a non-OAR transfer onto a disc. Not sure why anybody would want to, but they certainly can.

Regards,

Joe
 

Vern Dias

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No such thing as "anamorphic" in the BD standard. Any black bars you may see are encoded on the disc.

Vern
 

Sanjay Gupta

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You are right and I was just being lazy with my usage of the term 'Pan & Scan'.
 

Sanjay Gupta

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No 'anamorphic' support in the BD standard, is a major faux pau. After all it would have provided a similar gain in picture quality for wider than 16:9 material, just as it does on DVD, for material wider than 4:3. I am actually rather surprised that no one from the Home Theater fraternity even touched upon this issue at any stage when the BD standard was being formed. Although I do realize that the fact that HD TVs already being sold at the time had not incorporated the feature might have prevented 'anamorphic' from being incorporated int he BD standard. But then again, most tvs sold before the DVD era did not incorporate the feature either and that did not stop them from including it in the DVD specs. Also, very few, if any, of the early HD TVs sold had HDMI support and that did not stop them from making it an integral part of the BD standard. The same also applies for HD audio format support in existing receivers/pre-pros.
 

Jason Seaver

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Well, it might have been nice to be able to encode wider-than-1.77:1 movies anamorphically (the same 1.33 factor would have gotten the aspect ratio right up to 2.37:1), even though the number of devices that can handle such resolution is still small.
 

Douglas Monce

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Yes but there are films that are wider than 16x9 which could benefit from an anamorphic presentation on blu-ray. It would be particularly good for those using projectors with anamorphic lenses.

Doug
 

Vern Dias

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And anamorphic film is native 2.40:1.
htf_images_smilies_smile.gif


I have done some anamorphic encodes from 2.40:1 film to BD to satisfy my own curiosity and it can be easily done. However, unless the entire video chain from telecine/scanner to BD supports it, there is really no resolution gain to be had.

Vern
 

Brandon Conway

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OK, I'm lost.

What exactly is the benefit of an anamorphic encoding on Blu-ray?

If a film has a 2.40:1 AR, displaying it on a 16x9 TV when the signal is encoded at 16x9 is the only way to do it, no? Why would you want to encode it for 4x3 and have it anamorphically enhanced to 16x9? Or are you talking about some hypothetical TV with a 2.40:1 screen instead of a 1.78:1 screen?
 

Jack Gilvey

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Basically, Constant Image Height projector-based setups using scalers, anamorphic lenses, and 2.35:1 screens. Not common, perhaps, but definitely not hypothetical. ;) Anamorphic BD would allow such users to display 1080 vertical lines of source resolution for 'scope films, instead of ~842. Such scaler/lens setup would work on 16:9 screens, of course, for letterboxed presentation of 2.35 fare.
 

Cees Alons

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When the BD specs still weren't definitive, I advocated a "ratio byte", allowing for much more efficient use of the space on disc.

And, Brandon, you don't encode for 4x3. You encode for 16x9 en have it anamorphically enhanced to whatever you've chosen to be the next stop (say: 2.35:1).

But if there would have been a ratio byte, you could even have defined the ratio (height) for each specific release (or chapter of a movie).


Cees
 

ManW_TheUncool

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Anamorphic BD would've be nice in theory, but it really would only have any practical benefit for the select few who own/use the needed display setup while also likely compromising the PQ a little for the rest of us (by requiring downconversion just like w/ 16x9 DVD on 4x3 displays).

Considering how niche that portion of the market really is, it'd probably make more sense for the industry to go for something even better than BD at some point to satisfy whatever actual demand there is for that in the future. And if the demand (and the $$$ to back that up) really isn't there, then there's no real point to saddle everyone else w/ the compromises that would be needed (both in terms of PQ in practice and the $$$ investment to produce and support the extra resolution that most would not be able to use).

Don't get me wrong. I too would love to own a great, large, constant height setup and watch anamorphic BD (or something even better) on it. But I gotta be realistic about this recreational hobby afterall -- especially since my plate is pretty full already w/ a few other serious hobbies as well. ;) :P :D

_Man_
 

brap

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4X3 pan-and-scan would be possible, but unlikely since BD is aimed for HDTVs. The native resolution is 1:78 and any smaller AR would be pillarboxed just like higher AR is letterboxed.
You can create a pan-and-scan 1.33 and then pillarbox it in 1.78, but the result would make the BD author the laughing stock of the whole industry.
Resolutions cropped to 1.78 is the new pan-and-scan.
 

Brandon Conway

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This.

I know some out there have the constant height 2.40:1 screens, but you guys are definitely in the minority. I doubt there's even 1000 set ups in the entire US.
 

Jason Seaver

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Of course, there weren't a whole lot of 16x9 TVs out there ten years ago when DVD was first released, although in that case everybody knew HD was coming (and weren't there a lot of claims that anamorphic encoding would downgrade the picture for the vast majority of 4x3 sets at the time?). As much as it's a tiny niche, it's the sort of capability that might have been forward-thinking to include (along with a standard for encoding 3-D) for the simple reason that Blu-ray is expected to be the standard (if only the high-end standard) for the forseeable future.

Of course, there's no reason that you couldn't encode anamorphic images on a small-run BD, much like there were a few anamorphic Laserdiscs and are Sensio 3-D DVDs. I suppose that it's something that might be a possible firmware update for Profile 1.1+ players, too.
 

Jack Gilvey

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Yup and yup. No reason to throw out resolution, no telling what the future holds. I mean, they saw fit to make it a 1080p format, even though most
(?) people will be downconverting that to something else.
I think it had to do with getting the format out ASAP, what with HD-DVD and all.
 

Duncan Harvey

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Maybe not in the USA but in Europe there were loads. We've had widescreen TVs available to the masses since the early 90s and the BBC has been making widescreen standard definition programmes for the same length of time.
 

nikonf5

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Hi all,

For anyone who is interested, Oppo has their first BD player coming out sometime pretty soon and its based on their very successful DV-983H DVD player platform.

One of the DV-983H features that Oppo says is very likely to show up in the final BD product is a vertical stretch for 2.xx:1 BDs made specifically for people with CIH setups.
 

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