Can An 88khz/24bit Disc Be Made From A 44khz/16bit Disc

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by peter m. wilson, Aug 12, 2003.

  1. peter m. wilson

    peter m. wilson Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi,
    I have a Panny rp82 which has the re-master feature that uprezes 44/16 cds' to 88/24's. This shows up on the face of my reciever when playing them using a digital connection between the player and the reciever.

    Is there a way to feed that signal to my pc and create an 88/24 cdr from a standard RedBook cd.

    thanks,
    Peter m.
     
  2. Michael St. Clair

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    Yep, with an expensive pro soundcard that can take 88/24 through a digital input.

    Alternatively, you could do the same thing without a DVD player and without a soundcard just by ripping the CD on your PC and using one of many noise-shaping algorithms when upsampling using your favorite PC audio software (Cool Edit Pro, etc).
     
  3. peter m. wilson

    peter m. wilson Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi Michael, and thanks,

    What expensive sound card would you suggest? I'm in the process of upgrading my PC to P4 2.?gig with 512 of the new ram? There's other stuff I want todo with the sndcard so your suggestions are appreciated, particularly pro cards.

    The Canadian Denon Guy who does the upgrades has his own studio so I thohgt if i could catchup to him a little equipment wise we could do some stuff together.

    thanks again,
    Peter m.
     
  4. Jason.Soko

    Jason.Soko Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm curious as to what upsampling a sample is going to do? The data is already gone.
     
  5. Scott Kriefall

    Scott Kriefall Second Unit

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    An M-Audio Audiophile 2496 card will handle recording of 88/24 or 96/24 material. Sells for about $175 at local pro audio stores; perhaps a bit cheaper online. There are other cards from Event, DAL, etc that are far more expensive -- the M-Audio card is one of the more reasonably priced models capable of higher than 48/16 recording.
     
  6. peter m. wilson

    peter m. wilson Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi Jason,
    I'm curious also infollowing the data along the path that you see that makes it a sample that's upsampled or is up rezed a better term, or for the sake of this discussion is it just semantics and we mean the same thing.

    So in the upsampling/uprezing path that you envision where did the sample start and if it's gone, where did it start and where did it go?

    Peter m.
     
  7. FeisalK

    FeisalK Screenwriter

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    I think Jason means from the original recording - at full resolution is sampled for CD at 44/16 loses a lot of original data.
     
  8. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    Upsampling enables less harsh filtering to be used.

    The CD format allows a frequency response to 20kHz (i.e. 20,000 waves per second). But directly past this is distortion resulting from the digital encoding/decoding process itself, which must be filtered out. The filter that does this must act quickly & severely (starting approximately around 21kHz)--this is why it is called a "brickwall" filter. They have improved this decade, but brickwall filters can still introduce subtle but audible high frequency distortions to sounds below 20kHz.

    But at higher sampling rates, that filtering point can be moved away from the audible range and it can be made gentler because of this. For example, using 96kHz sampling, you get a frequency response of up to 44kHz. The filter kicks in a r o u n d 45kHz and slopes off much more gradually than CD's format. And since most adult's hearing rolls off at roughly 15kHz, there is--for all practical purposes--no effect on any audible frequencies. And the 192kHz format has even more laid-back filters. But higher sampling rates are mainly for better signal resolution which allows for more fine detail to be recorded. That is, when RECORDING at that higher sampling rate.

    And no, you cannot make up information that isn't there to start with......er, except for Pioneer's "Legato Link" system. I'll let the reader do his own 'Net search on that one! [​IMG]

    LJ
     
  9. David_Rivshin

    David_Rivshin Second Unit

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  10. peter m. wilson

    peter m. wilson Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi,
    Futher investigation with my Denon dealer with regard to burning a cdr at 88/24 caused him to comment "what is going to read it."

    In the manual of the rp82 it states that mostcurrent recievers will read and process 96/24 but 88/24 is not a popular rez and thats why it says in the rp82's manual "some equipment cannot handel 88.2 even though it can handel 96khz. It's a bonus that your Denon can because there are many recievers that cannot.

    The cd player in a car can't. Maybee a dvd player in a car depending on the processor but before you burn a bunch of these you should establish whatit is that yuou own that can read it and if the answer is nothing then there are some people who have an rp82 with re-master on but their recievers can't read it and therefore is of no use.

    Another point is that re-master should be turned off if your using the rp82 as you dvd-a player. Since I use a different player it's not an issue for me.

    What I found was neat with this feature was being able to take the standard Santana cd Abraxus (which I also own the "stereo only" sacd to) up rez it to 88/24 and play it through DPLII to hear something like what they should have done with the sacd. I felt that that album was a perfect candidate for mltich.

    Those of you who have this player please post and let us know if your reciever is doing it's thing.

    thanks,
    Peter m.
    PS sorry to get myself and others all excited about this!!
     
  11. peter m. wilson

    peter m. wilson Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi,
    One last thing that may matter with regard to 88/24.
    My manual for my Denon 5800 makes no mention of 88/24.
    However, there was an upgrade to this unit which came with it's own fact sheet and setup instructions.

    In the DTS 96/24 compatability it specifically mentions that in the mltich mode THE UPGRADE gave it the capability to play 96/24 and 88/24. ( i would have thought that 96/24 was already there since i could play DTS encoded films before the upgrade) The only reference to anything like that in the original manual is a statement saying all 8 channels have 24bit d/a conversion.

    This may already be implemented in your equipment but I guess it wasn't in the Denon until the upgrade.

    Peter m.
     
  12. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    PeterW: Abraxas has been in multichannel form for several years now. DTS Entertainment makes/sells it: Abraxas on DTS-CD.

    LJ
     

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