Calif lawsuit claims Sony widescreen TVs defective (1 Viewer)

[DaveF]

If the factory settings will make the TV die a premature death, then Sony is selling a defective product. A product should be usable out of the box.

Stereos aren't preset at maximum volume out of the box. Why should TVs have their picture set to "maximum" out of the box, if that's going to damage them?

 

[DaveF]

If the factory settings will make the TV die a premature death, then Sony is selling a defective product. A product should be usable out of the box.

Stereos aren't preset at maximum volume out of the box. Why should TVs have their picture set to "maximum" out of the box, if that's going to damage them?

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

Used quasi-properly ... torch mode will reduce the overall life potential of the TV ... sort of like smoking. Where is there a guarantee that the TV will last 10 years ... 7 years ... 5 years?

Regards

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings

Used quasi-properly ... torch mode will reduce the overall life potential of the TV ... sort of like smoking. Where is there a guarantee that the TV will last 10 years ... 7 years ... 5 years?

Regards

 

[CalvinCarr]

I agree. But like someone else pointed out it's the consumers responsibility to educate themselves when they spend their money. For a long time you didn't need a license for a motorcyle here. Now someone who has never ridden buys a GSXR1000 and screams out of a parking lot and gets hurt, is it Suzuki's fault? But they didn't warn him that it was so powerful.

 

[CalvinCarr]

I agree. But like someone else pointed out it's the consumers responsibility to educate themselves when they spend their money. For a long time you didn't need a license for a motorcyle here. Now someone who has never ridden buys a GSXR1000 and screams out of a parking lot and gets hurt, is it Suzuki's fault? But they didn't warn him that it was so powerful.

 

[Jason Charlton]

Who says it's not usable? The set functions exactly the way the consumer expects it to. In fact, the factory settings are most likely exactly what the consumer saw in the store, and it's THAT bright, overly sharp, and contrast-cranked-to-the-limit look that convinced them to buy the set in the first place. Why was the picture set that way? Well, because the Hitachi right next to it in the store was cranked to the max, too. As was the Toshiba and Mitsubishi across the aisle. ALL manufacturers crank up the contrast to overcome the harsh, bright lighting in the showroom and display a picture that will look brighter (note I didn't say better) than the competition.

"But why would [insert manufacturer here] do such a thing?"

Because they realize that the typical consumer is easily fooled by a bright, snappy picture and often doesn't care as much about features such as number and type of inputs, aspect ratio control on progressive signals, or even the display technology itself.

I recently spoke with someone that got a great big new TV and when I asked if it was LCD or DLP he gave me this blank stare and said he didn't know. DIDN'T KNOW!?!?!?!?!

If people are going to be THAT ridiculously uneducated about investments of thousands of dollars, then I have no sympathy for them when through the natural course of events they realize they made a mistake.

I put a lot less blame on the manufacturers than I put on the consumer. People educate themselves before buying a car (often judging cars based on fuel efficiency), why should buying a TV be any different. Would you feel sorry for someone who bought a Hummer H2 and then complained that it only gets 10-12 miles per gallon? I wouldn't.

-Jason

 

[Jason Charlton]

Who says it's not usable? The set functions exactly the way the consumer expects it to. In fact, the factory settings are most likely exactly what the consumer saw in the store, and it's THAT bright, overly sharp, and contrast-cranked-to-the-limit look that convinced them to buy the set in the first place. Why was the picture set that way? Well, because the Hitachi right next to it in the store was cranked to the max, too. As was the Toshiba and Mitsubishi across the aisle. ALL manufacturers crank up the contrast to overcome the harsh, bright lighting in the showroom and display a picture that will look brighter (note I didn't say better) than the competition.

"But why would [insert manufacturer here] do such a thing?"

Because they realize that the typical consumer is easily fooled by a bright, snappy picture and often doesn't care as much about features such as number and type of inputs, aspect ratio control on progressive signals, or even the display technology itself.

I recently spoke with someone that got a great big new TV and when I asked if it was LCD or DLP he gave me this blank stare and said he didn't know. DIDN'T KNOW!?!?!?!?!

If people are going to be THAT ridiculously uneducated about investments of thousands of dollars, then I have no sympathy for them when through the natural course of events they realize they made a mistake.

I put a lot less blame on the manufacturers than I put on the consumer. People educate themselves before buying a car (often judging cars based on fuel efficiency), why should buying a TV be any different. Would you feel sorry for someone who bought a Hummer H2 and then complained that it only gets 10-12 miles per gallon? I wouldn't.

-Jason

 

[DaveF]

So? We're a bunch of nuts here, interested in the technology of our toys. But why should a consumer need to know the technical heart of his TV?

I think it's smart to know the pros and cons when spending thousands of dollars, but it's not always of interest nor is it reasonable to expect people to research every single purchase. I'm thinking of buying a home, and this will require some snap decisions on certain things, costing thousands of dollars. I don't have time to investigate household traffic patterns, optimal kitchen island designs, or ceiling fan motor types. I'll just have to make some best guesses because I lack time and interest. And so, I'm sure, many people feel about buying a TV. Find something in the price range, right size, trust the sales guy, and have it home an hour later.

I think the guy should have read the TVs manual, and if it warns about watching too much 4:3 TV, then he's got no claim. But if that's not in the instructions or is not clear, I think he's properly miffed.

 

[DaveF]

So? We're a bunch of nuts here, interested in the technology of our toys. But why should a consumer need to know the technical heart of his TV?

I think it's smart to know the pros and cons when spending thousands of dollars, but it's not always of interest nor is it reasonable to expect people to research every single purchase. I'm thinking of buying a home, and this will require some snap decisions on certain things, costing thousands of dollars. I don't have time to investigate household traffic patterns, optimal kitchen island designs, or ceiling fan motor types. I'll just have to make some best guesses because I lack time and interest. And so, I'm sure, many people feel about buying a TV. Find something in the price range, right size, trust the sales guy, and have it home an hour later.

I think the guy should have read the TVs manual, and if it warns about watching too much 4:3 TV, then he's got no claim. But if that's not in the instructions or is not clear, I think he's properly miffed.

 

[Steve Schaffer]

Dave,

It is in the owner's manual. Mitsubishis used to have a tag attached to the fron of the set warning not to use 4/3 mode more than 10% of the time (a bit severe but probably based on using the Torch mode), don't know if they still do or not.

The problem is that in the Nanny State, people are not supposed to have to take responsibility for bad results due not following the instructions that come with products.

Hell, people are suing carmakers because their engines sludge up after 30k miles without an oil change, even though every car comes with a recommended service schedule.

 

[Steve Schaffer]

Dave,

It is in the owner's manual. Mitsubishis used to have a tag attached to the fron of the set warning not to use 4/3 mode more than 10% of the time (a bit severe but probably based on using the Torch mode), don't know if they still do or not.

The problem is that in the Nanny State, people are not supposed to have to take responsibility for bad results due not following the instructions that come with products.

Hell, people are suing carmakers because their engines sludge up after 30k miles without an oil change, even though every car comes with a recommended service schedule.

 

[DaveF]

Given that, the guy's lawsuit seems foolish.

But I still think that if a product should not be used in its default settings, then those are flawed defaults.

Stereos don't default to full-volume when first turned on.

Cars don't default to full acceleration when first started.

RPTVs shouldn't default to "torch" mode, if it's as bad as everyone says.

 

[DaveF]

Given that, the guy's lawsuit seems foolish.

But I still think that if a product should not be used in its default settings, then those are flawed defaults.

Stereos don't default to full-volume when first turned on.

Cars don't default to full acceleration when first started.

RPTVs shouldn't default to "torch" mode, if it's as bad as everyone says.

 

[CalvinCarr]

And the coffee shouldn't be hot.....

 

[CalvinCarr]

And the coffee shouldn't be hot.....

 

[EugeneR]

All of you saying "it's in the owners manual!" are the people Sony's lawyers were counting on. Putting something in a manual is hardly a cure-all. Do you read every manual that you get with every product that you buy? Especially a product with which you are very familiar? Don't you think the manufacturer knows that lots of people will not read the manual?

Manufacturers KNOW that a large percentage, maybe a majority of people buying a TV will NOT read the manual, or at least not closely. After all, their customers' experience all their lives has been "plug in, turn on, done." If a manufacturer makes a product with the KNOWLEDGE that a large percentage of their customers will use the product in a way that is likely to cause damage to the product, in turn causing those customers thousands of dollars in damage individually and millions of dollars collectively, are you saying that the manufacturer should not lift a finger to do something about it?

Yet, the manufacturers do not do anything about the problem, although it would be easy and cheap to warn their customers--all they would have to do us put a warning sticker or tag on the actual TV. Or at least on the FRONT of the manual, instead of somewhere in the manual. Easier yet, simply don't have the TV in torch mode out of the box. They don't do any of these things. Why not? It will cost nothing, right?

You see where I'm going with this. It would actually cost the manufacturer lots of money, because consumers would be worried and not buy the TV (or it won't look as good on the showroom floor). So as not to damage its bottom line, the manufacturer puts the TV in torch mode and sticks the warning in a place which is not very conspicuous and lets the consumers take the hit. That is not a mistake, that is not an oversight, it is a conscious choice the manufacturer made. In my book, that is NOT OK.

 

[EugeneR]

All of you saying "it's in the owners manual!" are the people Sony's lawyers were counting on. Putting something in a manual is hardly a cure-all. Do you read every manual that you get with every product that you buy? Especially a product with which you are very familiar? Don't you think the manufacturer knows that lots of people will not read the manual?

Manufacturers KNOW that a large percentage, maybe a majority of people buying a TV will NOT read the manual, or at least not closely. After all, their customers' experience all their lives has been "plug in, turn on, done." If a manufacturer makes a product with the KNOWLEDGE that a large percentage of their customers will use the product in a way that is likely to cause damage to the product, in turn causing those customers thousands of dollars in damage individually and millions of dollars collectively, are you saying that the manufacturer should not lift a finger to do something about it?

Yet, the manufacturers do not do anything about the problem, although it would be easy and cheap to warn their customers--all they would have to do us put a warning sticker or tag on the actual TV. Or at least on the FRONT of the manual, instead of somewhere in the manual. Easier yet, simply don't have the TV in torch mode out of the box. They don't do any of these things. Why not? It will cost nothing, right?

You see where I'm going with this. It would actually cost the manufacturer lots of money, because consumers would be worried and not buy the TV (or it won't look as good on the showroom floor). So as not to damage its bottom line, the manufacturer puts the TV in torch mode and sticks the warning in a place which is not very conspicuous and lets the consumers take the hit. That is not a mistake, that is not an oversight, it is a conscious choice the manufacturer made. In my book, that is NOT OK.

 

[Gary Seven]

Your analogy is faulty.

Perhaps one more suitable would be (hypothetically now, since I know little technically of bikes)...

A guy buys a GSXR1000. The motorcycle enhusiast (equilavent to one of us geeks here) knows that the bike should be tuned and idling at 500 rpms. Failure to do so will burn out the bike's motor prematurely.

The average guy like me who knows little of bikes wants to get one. He buys the bike and keeps it at the factory tuning (say 1000 rpms). His motor burns out after two years.

Do you really think the less knowledgabe person should have known this? It wasn't necessary for any car he has ever known... why this? Why didn't the bike maker simply set the tuning levels at the desired and best setting? It's the same thing here with the TV.

 

[GregHC]

About the lawsuit

From the Sony Website

• Viewing bright, stationary images such as TV logos, and or continued usage of the 16:9 aspect ratio setting ("normal" Wide Mode) can result in permanent damage in the picture tubes used to display images in your projection TV

So let's look at this
1. Don't view a bright picture, yet the TV arrives to you BRIGHT.
2. Don't watch TV with Logo's,
3. Don't watch TV is the 16:9 aspect ratio because it will result in permanent damage
4. If you watch it in Normal 4:3 mode you also burn it in.

Now what does that leave you to watch on your new big screen TV?