cable risers..any sonic improvement?

Discussion in 'Accessories, Cables, and Remotes' started by Jeffrey Chin, Oct 3, 2003.

  1. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    Initial thought: "typical audiophile snake-oil". YMMV.
     
  2. Jeffrey Chin

    Jeffrey Chin Second Unit

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    I beg to differ. I do hear a difference with after market power cords and biwiring. I do notice balanced power conditioners with LoNo transformers reduce ground hum and white noise. I also see the M.A.G.I.C. cable TV isolator remove scan lines from your TV caused by RF and EMF. I witnessed Vibrapods being the best bang for buck improvement one can make in their HT system.

    I have also A/B Cardas Golden Cross vs. Goertz Python Hybrid (coppers for mids/lows, silver for highs).
    The Goertz won out easily with more much detail and sonic signature, so it's not necessarily getting what you pay for since the Cardas cost more.

    I find that usually ppl who talk about snake oil:
    1) are closed minded about expensive cabling/tweaks/equipment.
    2) cannot afford 1)
    3) have not even tried 1)
     
  3. Danny Tse

    Danny Tse Producer

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    Kind of off-topic, Jeffrey....

    Vibrapods under your sofa??
     
  4. Jeffrey Chin

    Jeffrey Chin Second Unit

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    danny, yes.
    Vibrapods - under my sofa, my svs sub, my ribbon spkrs.
    no more shaking

    ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US!
     
  5. Pete H

    Pete H Stunt Coordinator

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    Cable risers do make a sonic improvement. I have not used the product you are asking about but I currently use ceramic Ramekins. (They are much cheaper than cable stands / risers.) The improvement is slightly more than subtle but not insignificant. It would be among the last dollars to spend on your system.

    My wife has been on me a little to buy the risers because she doesn't like how the Ramekins look all over the floor. She's probably right about that.
     
  6. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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  7. Jeffrey Chin

    Jeffrey Chin Second Unit

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    well i don't know about u, but i listen with my ears, not by looking at documentation or formulas. if all my equipment is snake oil then i must have really sensitive ears, because there is an audible difference. if you have any further doubt, you can come over and i can pinpoint exactly where the differences are btwn the cables i mentioned above.

    to each his own.
    either way, happy listening all.
     
  8. Frank Carter

    Frank Carter Screenwriter

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    What is the reason cable elevators are suppossed to improve your sound?
     
  9. Jeffrey Chin

    Jeffrey Chin Second Unit

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    frank,
    click on the audiogon link in my first post
    that should answer your question
     
  10. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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  11. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Useless and a tripping hazard bound to increase your liability. Corona fields? Oh my. It also sounds like they wrote their own customer testimonial. Read it carefully. They're pushing cable lifts and the guy wrote he just got their speaker stands. Shameful. I do think they may be useful during the winter when taking some friends to an ice skating rink and playing 'miniature curling'.
    Your overall 'evidence' is largely anecdotal and to my knowledge is essentially unsupported in controlled testing. An anathema unfortunately among credophiles.

    Your criteria for listening with your ears would probably bear some merit and credibility were it done in a rigorous fashion. I take it that's not an approach you'd favor or espouse. However, it's entirely reasonable that the Alpha's' excessive capacitance (~7 times greater) was giving your amp a bit of oscillation that is manifesting itself as perceived improvements. Hard to say without some controlled testing though. On a side note, I also wax my car. Seems to run better afterwards as if it 'likes' having had attention lavished upon it.

    To push pre-conceived notions and to keep an open mind is a fine thing. To do so using established and time tested procedures and not champion flawed ones bears more than a bit of merit.
    J. Randi once said...
     
  12. Mat_M

    Mat_M Stunt Coordinator

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    So hey, I did some calculations using Ampere's law on this. Now, I'm not publicly taking sides here, but I'm sure Chu knows where I stand.

    Anyhow, let's assume we have 1W going to a speaker. I'll also assume that the negative and positive leads have been separated here for simplicity of the problem (when they are together, as in a speaker wire, a cancellation of this 'corona field' effectively occurs, which is a good thing). We'll also assume that the speaker cable is on the ground. Now, the magnetic field is equal to the permeability of free space times the current (125mA) all divided by 2pi times the distance from the wire to the ground, which I assumed was 1cm. This magnetic field is equal to 2.5 micro tesla. So how much energy is in this?

    (1/2*B^2)mu which is about 2.5 micro Joules/m^3. Ok, now how much of this energy is "lost" because it's in your floor? Let's assume a 20 foot path from source to speaker, 6 inches wide and 6 inches deep that the field passes through. This is about 0.142m^3. So let's say we loose this every second we have the speaker powered at 1W. We loose about .352 micro watts of power.

    That's about 0.00003% of the power. If anyone sees anything that should be added to this please tell. So by numbers I'm skeptical, but I have yet to do a DBT myself
     
  13. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Well my undertanding of the Corona Effect is that it can occur with very high voltage sources like in high voltage power transmission lines and evidenced by things like arcing, glowing, generation of ozone and the like. Of course here were talking hundreds of kilovolts.

    A much better Corona effect is this one [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Mat_M

    Mat_M Stunt Coordinator

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    The corona effect is most prominent in Tesla coils. But definitely like the one Chu mentions the best[​IMG]
     
  15. Brian OK

    Brian OK Supporting Actor

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    I like Chu's Corona effect especially... ;*)

    However, I do use cheapo ceramic lifters sourced at a farm store and ostensibly used as insulators to keep the cattle "in the yard".

    I used wood blocks before my "ceramic upgrade" ($3.99, box of twelve) and feel getting my biwire APlus speaker cables off the rug does keep the nasties away from the wire. Static juice off the floor is a real thing. Not a good thing when carpet covers your listening room.

    Science aside, this is a so-low cheap thing to do that it is not even worth arguing over. Go for it if you have carpet especially. On hardwoods, worth a try.
    It is a personal preference tweak. I prefer it myself, but I am wierd so ..... no big deal.
    And, yeah, you have to listen before and after.... it has a positive effect, however subtle.

    BOK
     
  16. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    If you were concerned about static why not simply spray your cables and the offending areas with "Static Guard"? Yeah, you're weird but a hell of a nice guy [​IMG]
     
  17. Doug_NHT

    Doug_NHT Stunt Coordinator

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    Those things remind me of those ceramic cable guides from powerlines that one would find every now and then.
     
  18. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    I think that's the thinking and the attempt to pull one over on the public. If coronas are possible and probable for high tension wires, then it must also be probable for something like speaker wires.
     
  19. Brian OK

    Brian OK Supporting Actor

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    Yeah, I guess I could use the spray ... but $40., or so, for a few ounces never set right with me.
    I only use the lifters for my front trio anyway, and with a little paint to match the carpet color, the "lifters" dissapear. Hell, some use chopstick holders for < than 5 bucks for a half dozen. It is a tweak for cheap, and again, not an audiophile issue worthy of a tempest.

    BOK
     

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