CA 551R passing through to the CA 851A? (1 Viewer)

[JohnRice]

why do you have 2 cd players both the Marantz SA-8004 for SACD and Emotiva ERC-3 for CD ? surely one would do also when watching movies do you hook your system uopto an avr?

Because once I got the XSP-1, it reveled that the Marantz wasn't as good at regular CD playback as it is with SACD. So, I got the Emotiva because it is optimized for CD and is better sounding for regular CDs.

I don't use an AVR, because I have all external amps, so there is no need for a receiver. I use an surround processor with no internal amps.

Just follow Sam's suggestions.

 

[schan1269]

He has the 551 already.Originally he was going to purchase an integrated amp to connect the 551 into.So, Do tell...551 into a USP-1 into "some amp" gains you what?

 

[JohnRice]

Search for my review about the USP-1 if you can't comprehend what it is designed for from the product page at Emotiva.

Aside from that. I'm done.

 

[schan1269]

It is a stereo pre-amp. Sells for(Well sold, discontinued) for $429.Again. Why include a stereo pre-amp between an AVR with pre-outs and an amp?Why?

 

[stevenn21]

90% of my music is stored on my pc in flac or mp3(only when i cant get a flac copy) so i use my np30 controlled through jriver media centre 19 for 90% of my listning. just thought i should add this info sorry i left it out

 

[schan1269]

why do you have 2 cd players both the Marantz SA-8004 for SACD and Emotiva ERC-3 for CD ? surely one would do also when watching movies do you hook your system up to an avr?i assume you keep this set-up of yours separate and hook up an avr when watching movies?​and finally should the speakers be the most expensive part of the equipment?do i spend most of the budget on speakers? i see your speakers cost a lot more than the rest of your equipment

I do the same thing he does...with sources.My 4 theatres, 3 of them have...BD playerUpscaling DVDSACD/ DVD-ACD Why?My SACD/ DVD-A players only scale to 720P or 1080i. The lone exception being My Elite DV49.All of my DVD players are region-free.Sure, I could sell every DVD and BD player I've got and buy 4 Oppo.But I'd lose the Denon 3910's analog outputs. Gurantee it smokes all but a Sabre DAC Oppo.But adding in a stereo pre-amp between the 551 and another amp is nonsense. Sure, for $1000 it is a tremendous pre-amp. Offers sound tonality control that I'm sure is first rate. But...what is it going to do for the 551?Unless you expect him to treat the 551 as a source into the pte-amp.

 

[JohnRice]

Better sound quality. It allows you to create a purely analog 2 channel system designed for best sound quality within your surround system. Some people do go to the extent of having completley different surround and music systems. This eliminates the need to do that, but maintains all the sonic benefits for the music part. That isn't to say that you can't find a surround pre-pro that would provide the same sound quality, but it would probably cost many thousands of $. This lets you do that for a lot less.

What does it do for the 551? Nothing. It adds nothing to your surround system. It is for creating an exceptional Music system within a surround system. ...and it is not nonsense simply because you lack the comprehension to understand what it is for. It is truly sad you don't have greater understanding about what you spend so much time writing about here on HTF. Yes, this is an unconventional component, but it makes perfect sense for the goal it is designed for. There is more to audio than SABRE DACs. This is like trying to explain to a wood stump what a wood stump is.

I'll give this one more try. Can you possibly comprehend that when you listen to music, you turn on only the music portion of the system? That being your source, the analog pre-amp and the power amp for the L&R speakers. Maybe there are some people who want exceptional music reproduction, but are happy with somewhat lesser surround quality. So this lets them create that Exceptional music system and then feed whatever surround system through it they want, without needing two systems. The surround system just has to have pre-outs for the L&R. Or... you can just use it in a top quality music only system.

BTW, the USP-1 (it looks like the Gen2 model will be coming out sometime soon) does NOT have ANY tone controls. And the XSP-1 has only very minimal tone control.

 

[JohnRice]

I really did come to this trying to help, but for obvious reasons it has become pointless.

 

[schan1269]

I know all about what you are discussing. I've been doing this since quadraphonic. You want him to treat the 551 as a source into the USP/XSP.Essentially...Run all the video to the 551. Let it take the audio off and hand it to the pre-amp.His audio only(I assume he has no care for MCH SACD/ DVD- A) connected to the pre-amp.For the marginal, at best, audio improvement, I'd spend that $500-1000 elsewhere. Namely...a speaker upgrade.

 

[stevenn21]

its not pointless i will be looking at getting one of these XSP-1's gen 2 or something similar i like the sound of it.
would i need to pair it with the XPA-1 or XPA-2 OR could i use any power amp?
IF I COULD USE ANY POWER AMP WOULD IT HAVE TO BE BALANCED LIKE THE XPA-2?

i dont care if its only a small improvement i like the sound of it , its only money i dont mind spending it on seperates.

i was considering getting a seperate 2 channel system but this eliminates the need to do that.

 

[schan1269]

Balanced is always preferred. But any pre-amp connects to any amp.

 

[schan1269]

By the way, incorporating a pre-amp into a home theater is not foreign to me.Long ago, I had a Kenwood AVR and used it with a Basic C2 to run an M2A.The Kenwood tape loop was ran to the C2.Then I had a thought one day..."Why not skip a step and just make sure my next AVR has pre-outs..."

 

[JohnRice]

its not pointless i will be looking at getting one of these XSP-1's gen 2 or something similar i like the sound of it.
would i need to pair it with the XPA-1 or XPA-2 OR could i use any power amp?
IF I COULD USE ANY POWER AMP WOULD IT HAVE TO BE BALANCED LIKE THE XPA-2?

i dont care if its only a small improvement i like the sound of it , its only money i dont mind spending it on seperates.

i was considering getting a seperate 2 channel system but this eliminates the need to do that.

You need pretty high end speakers to hear a significant difference between the USP and the XSP, plus the USP seems to be between generations, so you can't get it new right now. You might look for a used one to see how you like the basic idea. If you do decide to upgrade to the XSP, then you can sell the USP for minimally less than you bought it for. I was going to sell my USP-1, but it sounds SO good, I think I'll keep it and put it in another system.

You can use any amp with either one. You do not need one with balanced inputs. That is a plus mainly if you use longer cables between the pre and the amp, or have balanced sources. In that case, many people put the amp near (typically between) the L&R speakers so they can have short cables from the amp to the speakers.

When you listen to music, you just turn on the U/XSP, your source and the main power amp. There are 12v switches which will turn the amp on automatically, if the amp is so equipped. If you currently have a good external amp (I know you mentioned one, but I forget if you said you actually have it) than I'd probably start by using it for the L&R. You can always upgrade if you like how things are coming together.

When you want surround sound, you turn on your receiver as well (which can power the center and surround speakers) and put the U/XSP into "Home Theater Bypass", which effectively negates it. The U/XSP no longer controls anything or does anything to the signal going through it, and the receiver runs the show. This is in no way the same as using a tape loop, so ignore that complaint. If you use a sub, it can run only with surround, or it can run with both music and surround. The real capper is, you get to optimize and cross it over differently for surround and music. I have a very good sub that works well with music, but I do cross it over lower for music than surround. This system has that flexibility. As far as the amp, the XPA-2 is pretty awesome, but it is also enormous and heavy. My speakers are hard on amps and need tons of power, so it works well. You might be fine with the XPA-200, depending on how difficult your speakers are, or if you want the best amp and don't need massive power, a pair of XPA-1Ls might do the trick. Amps get expensive...

BTW, when I stream music, I use the Emotiva XDA-2 DAC, which makes my 320Kb/s mp3s sound better than I ever thought possible.

FWIW, I've spent the last 5 years "evolving" my system from receiver based (a $2,000 Pioneer, the model escapes me, but I can post it later if you are curious), with an external amp for the L&R, into what it is now. The difference is not subtle, but that will depend a lot on your speakers and source. You can believe my personal experience from this whole process, or you can trust the blind speculation of someone else. I also recently upgraded the surround to a Sherbourn ST-7030 which I got on closeout. It originally sold for $1,800, so it is no slouch. It is, by FAR, the best sounding surround pre I have ever heard. It still pales compared to the XSP-1.

 

[JohnRice]

(...note to self... you said you weren't going to fall for any more tuanting. it's a step-by-step process...)

 

[schan1269]

Ron(Epstein, as in the owner) runs a Denon 3313 with a Pre-Amp.I've not asked him why...others have. I assume it has to do with turntables or something like the pre-amp has better DACs than the 3313.Your 551r is not a limp AVR. I've not read the specs on the Citrus Logic DAC it incorporates. Don't know what DAC the XSP has either.The current DAC everybody is jizzing their boxers over are ESS Sabre. Again, I don't care. All I know is the SC79(which included Air Studios cert) was the quietest AVR I've ever used. Unfortunately, from a lack of MCH, I couldn't try my Denon 3910 into it. No current AVR (mainstream brand) had MCH anymore. Everything is HDMI for SACD/ DVD-A.I use an Elite DV 49 into an Onkyo 807 over HDMI. The sound is fabulous.Back to the point here. Cambridge isn't a low buck AVR. If you can tell a difference adding in a pre-amp for dedicated stereo(home theatre bypass is hardly a new feature. My Kenwood C2 had bypass as well, and those are how old?)...More power to your dollar spent.

 

[JohnRice]

Thank you, that was quite productive.The components in my system have changed a lot through the years, especially since I got the Thiels over 20 years ago. Buying them was a critical point, because for the first time I had speakers that are capable of approaching what I consider to be the ultimate sound reproduction. Then most flaws came down to electronics, once I worked out the Thiels' rather picky placement needs. Each evolution of the system has sounded better than the previous. That doesn't mean something else can't and wouldn't sound better.I saw someone who was asking questions that expressed priorities very similar to my own. With these same priorities, my system is finally, especially in the last couple years, approaching something stunning. I hoped to help someone else, who expressed similar priorities, with my personal experiences. I regret that threatens you so deeply.

BTW, neither of these pre-amps have DACs.

 

[schan1269]

Me? Threatened? Not hardly.I just find it difficult to understand the logic to add in another piece of equipment to the chain.Especially when you have people buying twin HDMI BD players...just so their projector can have a "less adulterated signal".If you have issue with the center of your AV universe regarding its pic or audio abilities...adding something is rarely the answer.Outright replacement is.Like this Darbee Darblet. Buy a better display to begin with.

 

[JohnRice]

You still have a fundamental lack of understanding what the goal is. This is not an "A/V" problem. This is the desire for an optimal 2 channel, music system without resorting to the extreme of a dedicated music only system. This is not "adding a music system to my surround system". It is creating a optimal music system, which also has the capability for surround sound, when wanted. Music is the priority. Surround is wanted, but not as important. You seem to have an almost narcissisistic refusal to believe anyone would want that. YOU don't, that is clear. There ARE people out there who do. I already said it is a small market and that there are certainly A/V pre/pros which might reproduce the same music quality, but that they would cost many thousands of $.

The ultimate question is...

Why do you insist on constantly belittling the help I am trying to give, which is CLEARLY wanted, as proven by the responses from the OP? Do you need to monopolize every hardware thread on the entire board?

 

[schan1269]

While helping another...to save some dough...if it works out where you are...

http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/ele/4318085925.html

 

[schan1269]

You still have a fundamental lack of understanding what the goal is. This is not an "A/V" problem. This is the desire for an optimal 2 channel, music system without resorting to the extreme of a dedicated music only system. This is not "adding a music system to my surround system". It is creating a optimal music system, which also has the capability for surround sound, when wanted. Music is the priority. Surround is wanted, but not as important. You seem to have an almost narcissisistic refusal to believe anyone would want that. YOU don't, that is clear. There ARE people out there who do. I already said it is a small market and that there are certainly A/V pre/pros which might reproduce the same music quality, but that they would cost many thousands of $.

The ultimate question is...

Why do you insist on constantly belittling the help I am trying to give, which is CLEARLY wanted, as proven by the responses from the OP? Do you need to monopolize every hardware thread on the entire board?

I've been a practitioner of multi-channel audio since...well...forever.

I still listen to LP. My dedicated 2.0 stereo is a pair of Dahlquist DQ10.
Feeding them is a Sota Moonbeam running into an old NAD integrated. Sansui tuner(one with two knobs) from the 70s and a Technics 5-disc table top that pre-dates CD-R(it won't play CD-R).