CA 551R passing through to the CA 851A? (1 Viewer)

[stevenn21]

i was looking a thread comparing the ca 651r the ca 751r and the ca 851a as i am looking to significantly upgrade my system.
i have just invested in the bx2's and the matching centre.
what i concluded from the discussion was that instead of getting rid of my 551r i could pass the 551r through the 851a this would be the best of both worlds for music and movies.
this sounds good to me as i am quite attached to my azur 551r and my 752bd.

my system comprises of ca azur 551r receiver, azur 752bd player and the ca np30 network streamer the speakers are bx2's front matching centre with ca minx min21 as rears.


so my questions are:
1)
can i pass the 551r through the 851a?
2)
would it improve the sound quality for 2 channels (music)?
3)
if i was to do this would my speakers be the weak chain in my system again?(if so i will happily move the bx2's to the rear and maybe get a better centre).

4)
would i need any additional cables?

i use my system about 95% for music and 5% movies.
my room is quite small and funny shaped here is a pic:

i no longer have a sub
any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance Steven.

 

[schan1269]

Why are you trying to add an integrated amp into an AVR?

 

[stevenn21]

Why are you trying to add an integrated amp into an AVR?

to get better stereo quality apparently the avr isnt great at 2 channel stereo so adding the 851a will give me a much better 'music' stereo sound.

someone showed me this:
http://www.whathifi.com/video/how-to-add-hi-fi-to-your-home-cinema

 

[schan1269]

Well yeah.

But the additional amp does not need to be anywhere near as capable as that 851a.

You need a basic 2 channel amp. Period, done. Not another full featured integrated.

Attaching the 851 to your current AVR is akin to buying a BMW 5 series to drive while connected with a towbar to a BMW M3. Having somebody else sit in the M3 pushing around the 5 series while you steer the 5 series.

Go to Audio Adviser(the site doesn't work well for us yanks...) and pick, any, two channel amp. CA doesn't make a pure 2 channel amp. Buy another brand.

 

[stevenn21]

Well yeah.

But the additional amp does not need to be anywhere near as capable as that 851a.

You need a basic 2 channel amp. Period, done. Not another full featured integrated.

Attaching the 851 to your current AVR is akin to buying a BMW 5 series to drive while connected with a towbar to a BMW M3. Having somebody else sit in the M3 pushing around the 5 series while you steer the 5 series.

Go to Audio Adviser(the site doesn't work well for us yanks...) and pick, any, two channel amp. CA doesn't make a pure 2 channel amp. Buy another brand.

not all amps are created equal the 851 is known to be of exceptional sound quality and thats why i was looking at that one this is the thread i was reading where i got this idea:
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/50067-cambridge-audio-651r/
post #11 by RF Calais but the thread talks about the quality of the 851 compared to others

the 851 has loads of good quality dacs its not just a basic amp.
like you said it has more features than a normal 2 channel amp

 

[schan1269]

And if you read post 15...

There is more out there...consider a true power amp(no...not verbatim of the posting)

 

[stevenn21]

And if you read post 15...

There is more out there...consider a true power amp(no...not verbatim of the posting)

thanks i see your point theres no point getting the 851 if im only using one feature can you recommend some high quality power amps?

 

[schan1269]

NAD, Parasound, Onkyo, Marantz...The elder Onkyo M282(I think that is model) doesn't cost an arm and a leg, but has a prodigious current draw.If you were in the US I'd tell you to hunt down an old Hafler. Maybe you can find one over there.

 

[stevenn21]

NAD, Parasound, Onkyo, Marantz...The elder Onkyo M282(I think that is model) doesn't cost an arm and a leg, but has a prodigious current draw.If you were in the US I'd tell you to hunt down an old Hafler. Maybe you can find one over there.

what about the
ROTEL RB 1582 MKII POWER AMPLIFIER [edit] thats too much power what about the rb1552 mkII

DO I NEED A PRE AMP ASWELL AS THE POWER AMP?

 

[schan1269]

Your AVR is the pre-amp.There is no such thing as too much power. With the 1582, I doubt you ever ask more than 100 out of it.

 

[stevenn21]

Your AVR is the pre-amp.There is no such thing as too much power. With the 1582, I doubt you ever ask more than 100 out of it.

my avr doesnt have a pre amp

 

[schan1269]

I must be blind and can't read English...

I could swear on Audio Adviser's website for the CA 551R, the picture of the rear of it, shows "7.1 preamp output" next to 8 RCA outputs...

http://www.audioadvisor.com/Cambridge-Audio-551R-71-Audio-_Video-Receiver/productinfo/CA551R/#.Uve9rvldUrU

Clearly I can't read English.

 

[stevenn21]

I must be blind and can't read English...

I could swear on Audio Adviser's website for the CA 551R, the picture of the rear of it, shows "7.1 preamp output" next to 8 RCA outputs...

http://www.audioadvisor.com/Cambridge-Audio-551R-71-Audio-_Video-Receiver/productinfo/CA551R/#.Uve9rvldUrU

Clearly I can't read English.

sorry schan1269 i didnt mean to offend you yes you are correct it does say 7.1 preamp out i was looking at the description and it didnt mention that the avr has a pre amp function i couldnt find any reference to a preamp in any reviews either.

wouldnt a power amp like the rb1552 give a better sound with the 1550 preamp rather than my 551r?

if this is the case i might get the 1550 and the 1552 hook my fronts up to it the put them back in the avr when watching a film which is rare anyway what is you suggestion?

 

[schan1269]

You didn't offend me.

There is no reason to not use your 551 into another amp. None. That is the very reason it has pre-outs. Buying another pre-amp is wasting money you could use as additional funds for...

More amp.
More speakers(or better speakers)
More content.

 

[JohnRice]

Steven, I appreciate that you want to produce the best 2 channel sound you can get and there are some newer 2 channel pre-amps which are designed specifically for best 2 channel audio quality, which also integrate nicely into surround systems. The two models I personally have are the Emotiva USP-1 and XSP-1 and I can assure you, with good enough equipment, they can give a SIGNIFICANT improvement in your 2 channel sound quality. I got the USP-1 a couple years ago and wrote a pretty extensive review here on HTF, if you care to search for it. I upgraded to the XSP-1 about a year ago and now I can't imagine ever using any surround receiver or pre-pro for music. Unfortunately too often there is an attitude that features and quality are the same thing.

The music part of my system is the best it has ever sounded and consists of Marantz SA-8004 for SACD and Emotiva ERC-3 for CD to the XSP-1, then balanced to an Emotiva XPA-2, and to my Thiel CS 3.6s. My listening priorities are similar to yours. Though I use the system for movies more than you, music has always been the #1 priority and I DO find that the demands for sound quality on music are higher than movies. I know most HTFers seem to disagree with that, but it is my consistent observation. The move to the USP-1 for music was a revelation and the XSP-1 was that much more of an improvement. They can both integrate wonderfully with your Cambridge receiver. Let the receiver power your center and surround speakers, add a USP-1 or XSP-1 and a good amp for your L&R and you will be very happy.

By what you've said in this thread, I suspect you will be happiest by investing more in a good 2 channel system like this which can integrate into a surround system when you want to watch a movie.

 

[stevenn21]

Steven, I appreciate that you want to produce the best 2 channel sound you can get and there are some newer 2 channel pre-amps which are designed specifically for best 2 channel audio quality, which also integrate nicely into surround systems. The two models I personally have are the Emotiva USP-1 and XSP-1 and I can assure you, with good enough equipment, they can give a SIGNIFICANT improvement in your 2 channel sound quality. I got the USP-1 a couple years ago and wrote a pretty extensive review here on HTF, if you care to search for it. I upgraded to the XSP-1 about a year ago and now I can't imagine ever using any surround receiver or pre-pro for music. Unfortunately too often there is an attitude that features and quality are the same thing.

The music part of my system is the best it has ever sounded and consists of Marantz SA-8004 for SACD and Emotiva ERC-3 for CD to the XSP-1, then balanced to an Emotiva XPA-2, and to my Thiel CS 3.6s. My listening priorities are similar to yours. Though I use the system for movies more than you, music has always been the #1 priority and I DO find that the demands for sound quality on music are higher than movies. I know most HTFers seem to disagree with that, but it is my consistent observation. The move to the USP-1 for music was a revelation and the XSP-1 was that much more of an improvement. They can both integrate wonderfully with your Cambridge receiver. Let the receiver power your center and surround speakers, add a USP-1 or XSP-1 and a good amp for your L&R and you will be very happy.

By what you've said in this thread, I suspect you will be happiest by investing more in a good 2 channel system like this which can integrate into a surround system when you want to watch a movie.

now im a bit confused because you are advising me to get the XSP-1 -preamp and an amp but schan1269 said buying a preamp is a waste of money as the 551r is a preamp.
what should i do guys

 

[stevenn21]

why do you have 2 cd players both the Marantz SA-8004 for SACD and Emotiva ERC-3 for CD ? surely one would do also when watching movies do you hook your system up to an avr?
i assume you keep this set-up of yours separate and hook up an avr when watching movies?

​and finally should the speakers be the most expensive part of the equipment?

do i spend most of the budget on speakers? i see your speakers cost a lot more than the rest of your equipment

 

[schan1269]

Opinions are like butt cracks.I don't think you need one. I assume you run your video through this as well. If you want two separate systems, with separate speakers...knock yourself out.But, there is no reason, at all, to run this AVR into another pre-amp.My opinion. If you are using video through system, send the 551 into another amp.If you are not running video...sell the 551 and get a dedicated 2 channel integrated or pre-amp and amp.

 

[JohnRice]

Clearly I disagree with Sam. Possibly he isn't aware components such as the USP-1 and XSP-1 exist, or he doesn't believe there is any difference in sound quality between different components, other than based on what DAC they contain. These pre-amps are intended to integrate in such a way that they essentially create two systems with the goal of the 2 channel part of the system being the highest possible sound quality.Based on your response, it seems this may be more complex than you want to deal with. You might want to learn more about what the different parts (processor/pre-amp/amps/switching) of a receiver perform and how you can improve on them with separates in many cases, and then come back to the idea of a 2 channel, strictly analog pre-amp.Now I think I'm understanding why so many HTFers seem baffled when I've written about these components.

 

[JohnRice]

Opinions are like butt cracks.

Could you be a little more infantile? At least learn what the components do first.

This does not create two different systems with different speakers.

Now I remember why HTF has chased away most of the genuinely knowledgable people.