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DanH1972

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Good read, Rob!

Streaming services are getting better and better mostly because Internet connections are becoming faster.

I have 940mbps coming into my home. I have more than enough bandwidth to take advantage of the video and audio codecs. However, 100mbps is fast enough, really, to get decent 4k quality into the home.

I think it's inevitable disc purchases are going to be delegated to boutique labels and the shrinking amount of collectors.

As you, Robert Crawford, and others have suggested, we are possibly seeing the beginning of a trend where theatrical films will go to streaming services before disc. And, sadly, as we have been seeing for years, the disc formats continue to decline and in the not-too-distant future, streaming will become the only place for people to view first-run films.
Picture quality on streaming services is capped by the data rate of the compressed file at the streaming company's server (and they are compressing these studio mezzanine files even more severely than before and PQ is actually getting worse not better because of this downward trend). Unless you have an extremely slow internet service, you will not get throttled down to SD or HD resolution even with about a 50 megabit connection (for buffer overrun protection). 25 megabit download speeds is probably cutting it close due to network packet allocation on the web.

As average speeds slowly increase across the country, PQ (and AQ) will probably not improve as there is no incentive for these companies to eat up server space to ever larger audio/video files, even if the overall quality to the consumer would increase.
 

Stephen_J_H

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Kino currently distributes many films owned by Disney, but hey, why let facts get in the way of unwarranted Disney bashing?

Disney and 4k licensing is the issue at hand. Please read before commenting.
Li'l bit of clarification here. Disney licenced a package of films to Kino a couple of years back, none of which are "mainline" Disney titles or titles acquired in the 21st Century Fox purchase. They are either ABC Pictures/ABC Films or Touchstone/Hollywood titles. None have been 4K releases, and many came from rather dated masters.
 

DanH1972

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Li'l bit of clarification here. Disney licenced a package of films to Kino a couple of years back, none of which are "mainline" Disney titles or titles acquired in the 21st Century Fox purchase. They are either ABC Pictures/ABC Films or Touchstone/Hollywood titles. None have been 4K releases, and many came from rather dated masters.
Many a boutique label has been unable to acquire 4k licensing of any kind for Fox or Disney titles, especially after the buyout. I don't see that improving anytime soon. They also said it's getting more difficult for HD licensing as well. As another poster mentioned, Disney would rather see their assets rot than have another company work on them and get them into the wild in the best A/V quality possible.
 

jayembee

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This is all about studios looking to drive new subscribers to their streaming services [snip]

As much as this (if not moreso) I think it's all about the studios regaining full "possession" of their IP. Since the beginning of cinema, the films -- and access to them -- were completely under the control of the studios/distributors. Home video scared the shit out of them because it gave the consumer some semblance of control over what they watched and when they watched it. But when SCOTUS ruled in Sony's favor in the "Betamax case", the studios realized the only way to beat 'em was to join 'em, and began releasing their catalog for sale. And they realized this was a whole new revenue stream they could milk, and milk it they did.

But now there's streaming. The consumers win, at least in part, by holding onto the opportunity to watch things when they want, while the studios retain "ownership" of their "product" by moving away from a physical purchase. They regain control of what we watch by deciding what they offer on their streaming platforms.
 

Josh Steinberg

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Disney does not let assets rot. They have one of the best in house preservation teams in the business.

What Disney does not always do is release the titles certain viewers want in the specific format that those viewers wish they would be released in.

There is a tremendous difference between letting an asset “rot” than there is in deciding not to release a certain title on disc at a certain time.
 

Charles 22

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There are several others of us.

In the widgets in the right-hand column, one is called "STAFF ONLINE." If you click on those words, you will see a complete list of administrators and owners.

As Robert suggests, if you haven't taken the time yet to read our Terms/Rules, I advise you do so. We are quite strict about maintaining civil discourse on this site (something many others sites do NOT do). That link is available at the very bottom of every HTF page.

Everyone is allowed to have their opinion and to express it freely, as long as it's not done at the expense of another member. That is very important to us. For example, implying another member is delusional is not acceptable here.
That link may come in handy in the future.
 

Charles 22

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I suspect it will.

But now let's return to the topic at hand--the 4k release of Nightmare Alley.
If I want one of you guys, in this case I only see people online, I would click on their name and then start a private conversation? Thanks.
 

Josh Steinberg

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You can also click the “report” button on the bottom of a post you’re concerned about. A box will appear asking you to state the reason for submitting a report. Fill in your reason and click send. A moderator will then review the post as soon as possible.
 

Stephen_J_H

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Many a boutique label has been unable to acquire 4k licensing of any kind for Fox or Disney titles, especially after the buyout. I don't see that improving anytime soon. They also said it's getting more difficult for HD licensing as well. As another poster mentioned, Disney would rather see their assets rot than have another company work on them and get them into the wild in the best A/V quality possible.
It is a bit of a bright spot that Disney licenced the original Nightmare Alley to Criterion.
 

Charles 22

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You can also click the “report” button on the bottom of a post you’re concerned about. A box will appear asking you to state the reason for submitting a report. Fill in your reason and click send. A moderator will then review the post as soon as possible.
Thanks, but I'm aware of that from other forums, though whenever I notice it, I'm not needing it, and it does seem rather tacky if you have no idea how the forum using them will treat the "offender". I doubt most places care in the least what the context of the offense is, or in who started a possible conflict, etc, so yes, rather a low blow if it operates in a rather unfair manner, and that's not just here, and I'm sure different places will handle them differently anyway. Fortunately, I never use it, so I've no idea how it works.
 

Sam Posten

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Well with that attitude nothing will change to your liking. You can either hit the report button and see what happens or live with whatever situations arise in silence. Having an issue and not doing the one thing in your power to get it resolved doesn’t help anyone. Complaining about unreported issues or vaguely referencing unresolved gripes won’t get you far here either.
 

Charles 22

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Well with that attitude nothing will change to your liking. You can either hit the report button and see what happens or live with whatever situations arise in silence. Having an issue and not doing the one thing in your power to get it resolved doesn’t help anyone. Complaining about unreported issues or vaguely referencing unresolved gripes won’t get you far here either.
Gee whiz, really?
 

JohnRice

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I find such comments condescending and disrespectful to those that don't share your POV. Please dial it back. Thank you.
Only just figuring this out now? That’s not intended personally at you Robert, just that it’s been headed that way for a while.
 

jayembee

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It is a bit of a bright spot that Disney licenced the original Nightmare Alley to Criterion.
It's more likely that Criterion licensed it from Fox before the Disney takeover, like several other Fox titles they've released in last two years (with two more coming in the next two months: The Flight of the Phoenix and The Girl Can't Help It). Signal One in the UK has also just released Nightmare Alley, but it's been one of a handful of Fox titles they've been fighting to get released since 2018.
 

jayembee

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Did Criterion get a 4k license or simply an HD one?
If as is likely, they acquired the license pre-Disney takeover, it would be BD/DVD rights only. Criterion has resisted 4K for a while. If they had been planning on 4K releases before last year, they probably would've had the 4K licenses to The Great Escape and The Elephant Man, for example, instead of letting them go to someone else. Not to mention any number of other titles in the past couple of years.
 

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