BVHE Press Release: Fantasia and Fantasia 2000 Special Edition (Blu-Ray) (1 Viewer)

[ahollis]

Originally Posted by Eric Scott Richard

I thought that Deems Taylor was heard in the 1990 release. The tone of the voice sounds like an older recording.

That was Hugh Douglas.  

 

[Charles Smith]

Damn.

 

I just reviewed the Deems Taylor segments on the LD, as well as the small "making of" and the printed matter included with the set. Taylor is credited, with no note or mention anywhere of his speaking voice having been replaced. They talk a bit about the "restoration" of the film and the stereo or multichannel soundtrack, but that's it. I was impressed with the fact that the kind of documentation regarding any level of restoration that we're used to seeing now is a far cry from what was provided in 1990, at least in this case.

 

Then I tried the DVD Anthology set, and in features and commentary sections about Deems Taylor, the discussion was only about the newly reinstated interstitials and the voicing of them by Corey Burton, nothing at all about any earlier revoicing. I was hoping for more history about the versions in the intervening decades. I didn't comb the whole Fantasia disc or Legacy disc, so maybe there's something I missed -- but I think I hit all the likely places.

 

[bigshot]

Ahollis, I am positive you are wrong. The only version prior to the recent DVD release that does not include Deems Taylor's narration is the Irwin Kostel rerecord. The VHS and laserdisc were the 120 minute RKO version with a few cuts of centaurs. That is Deems Taylor on that release.

 

[benbess]

I think big is right...

 

The voice sure doesn't "sound" like it was recorded in 1982. It sounds old.

 

[Patrick McCart]

Disney didn't have any problems redubbing David Tomlison for Bedknobs and Broomsticks for the brief sections of lost audio on the restored edition. While it's not seamless (nor will it ever be), it's the best solution for incomplete audio tracks. No one in their right mind would have redubbed the entirety of Lawrence of Arabia's soundtrack to make up for the fraction of lost audio that required redubs.

 

Besides, the Burton redub really sticks out. The sync is slightly off throughout and the fidelity is too different to match. And the really dumb sound sound effects overlaid the "wipe to/from black" transitions. Why would anyone interpret those as someone sliding a studio door open instead of being a cue for curtains to open?

 

[ahollis]

 

Originally Posted by bigshot

Ahollis, I am positive you are wrong. The only version prior to the recent DVD release that does not include Deems Taylor's narration is the Irwin Kostel rerecord. The VHS and laserdisc were the 120 minute RKO version with a few cuts of centaurs. That is Deems Taylor on that release.

Think about it. If the Deems Taylor voice was used in the last few releases on film and DVD, why would they be replacing it with the up-coming release. Disney has already said several times that most of Mr. Taylor's narration was lost many years ago. The first thing Disney and RKO cut from the film was the live action and narration bits. The animation is what they wanted to sell and they allowed the narration tracks to deteriorate and never had any thought of restoring them.
 

RKO never had the 120 minute cut. Disney had the 120 minute version and RKO took it over in 1941 and cut it to 83. In 1946 RKO re-released the film and the running time was close to 100 minutes (they added back the Toccata and Fugue in D Minor segment that was cut in 1941). This is the cut that was released in 1990. Never had the VHS, but did have a two disc laser disc (thinking it was CAV) so that would have but the running time at around 118 minutes, so that poses a question. I remember booking the film in 1982 and 1990 and the running time was close to 100 minutes both times in the theatre.
 

But I am positive about the re-dubbing of Deems Taylor. Since not all of his narration is gone, it is possible that some has survived with editing, but most people connected with the film say no to Mr. Taylor after 1982. Mr Hughes was considered a voice artist and he was hired to replicate Mr. Taylor's voice as much as possible to the degree that Mr. Hughes was not given credit. That is one of the complaints today in that if Disney cannot resurrect the original narration tapes, then at least find someone that sounds like Deems Taylor, which Mr. Burton did not, and I do not mean to slight Mr. Burton's talent.

 

But we could argue the point for hours, days, weeks, months, and years. So lets start arguing about the Elia Kazan collection not being available in Blu-ray.

 

I thought that only the parts that were cut in 1946 were missing (in narration only) or have been damaged beyond repair. I thought that even the notes on the anthology stated that Taylor's voice was restored to the film in 1990, except for the Roadshow sections that were cut. They chose to redub the entire narration for the dvd release (and now blu-ray.)

 

[ahollis]

 

Originally Posted by Eric Scott Richard

I thought that only the parts that were cut in 1946 were missing (in narration only) or have been damaged beyond repair. I thought that even the notes on the anthology stated that Taylor's voice was restored to the film in 1990, except for the Roadshow sections that were cut. They chose to redub the entire narration for the dvd release (and now blu-ray.)

The 1946 release was the same as the 1941 RKO release except they put back the Toccata and Fugue in D Minor segment that they cut in 1941, none of the narration cut. From what I am told Taylor's voice was not heard in the 1990 release. I trust my source but I still think that some of his narration is heard along with Mr. Hughes re-creation of that narration in 1982. It is well know that Mr. Hughes re-recorded the narration, but Mr. Taylor still gets the credit. Mr. Hughes did not record the entire road show narration is why we have Mr. Burton in 2000. The road show narration that was cut in 1941 is completely gone.

 

The thing that I keep going back to is that the sound revolution in theatres for Dolby Stereo started in the mid 70's so to bring the film up to digital standards that were demanded in the 70's and 80's, they would not only have needed to re-create the orchestrations, but also the narration. Today we have advanced to the point that we have software that can bring older recordings up to digital standard (and sometimes we hear it's limitations), which is what they did for the 1990 re-release but the sound separations for Deems Taylor was not in good condition at all.  

 

[bigshot]

I'm an animation historian. You can see me in the extras on the Popeye DVDs and I run the ASIFA-Hollywood Animation Archive. I'm not infallible, but I've seen Fantasia many times in many releases over the years. Since I was a kid, Fantasia has always run a hair over 120 minutes. The same Deems Taylor narration is in every pre digital version of the film I've seen, including a complete 16mm print with the cut scenes included, the VHS and laserdisc, and an educational 16mm version of Rite of Spring distributed to schools from the late 50s. When Disney created the stereo version from original Fantasound elements, it was Taylor's voice. That stereo mixdown has been the audio master since.

Two versions do not inlude Deems Taylor. The narration was rerecorded with a totally different voice for the Irwin Kostal version, and Corey Burton, who I've worked with, did a soundalike version for the last home video release. The reason they went ahead and put Corey over the scenes they still had original narration for was so the sound of the voice didn't change from scene to scene. Corey has a good ear for mimicking old voices, but he can't match in seamlessly.

Personally, I couldn't care less about the additional roadshow narration. It's fine if they want to include it as an extra, but the 120 minute version of the film that was on the laserdisc is the one that counts.

 

I agree, Bigshot. I love the 1990 version. I wish they would just release that if they can't find the original tracks.

 

[cafink]

Why is "the 120 minute version of the film that was on the laserdisc is the one that counts"?

 

If I understand correctly (and please set me straight if I don't), the 125-minute version that's on DVD (and soon Blu-ray) is the originally-released version of the film (except for the cropping of the "Sunflower" scenes and the dubbing of Deems Taylor). Why isn't the original version "the one that counts"? What makes the laserdisc version specifically superior to all the other alternate versions that were created over the years?

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by cafink

Why is "the 120 minute version of the film that was on the laserdisc is the one that counts"?

 

If I understand correctly (and please set me straight if I don't), the 125-minute version that's on DVD (and soon Blu-ray) is the originally-released version of the film (except for the cropping of the "Sunflower" scenes and the dubbing of Deems Taylor). Why isn't the original version "the one that counts"? What makes the laserdisc version specifically superior to all the other alternate versions that were created over the years?

I was under the impression that a few scenes were still cut from the original cinema release, perhaps done by Walt Disney himself for a later re-release but nevertheless still cut out due to "political correctness" or because Disney regretted the scenes in the first place, still from an historical viewpoint it would be good to have a full uncut original edition from the first cinema release, of course that will never happen in today's climate.
 

 

[ahollis]

 

Originally Posted by bigshot

I'm an animation historian. You can see me in the extras on the Popeye DVDs and I run the ASIFA-Hollywood Animation Archive. I'm not infallible, but I've seen Fantasia many times in many releases over the years. Since I was a kid, Fantasia has always run a hair over 120 minutes. The same Deems Taylor narration is in every pre digital version of the film I've seen, including a complete 16mm print with the cut scenes included, the VHS and laserdisc, and an educational 16mm version of Rite of Spring distributed to schools from the late 50s. When Disney created the stereo version from original Fantasound elements, it was Taylor's voice. That stereo mixdown has been the audio master since.

Two versions do not inlude Deems Taylor. The narration was rerecorded with a totally different voice for the Irwin Kostal version, and Corey Burton, who I've worked with, did a soundalike version for the last home video release. The reason they went ahead and put Corey over the scenes they still had original narration for was so the sound of the voice didn't change from scene to scene. Corey has a good ear for mimicking old voices, but he can't match in seamlessly.

Personally, I couldn't care less about the additional roadshow narration. It's fine if they want to include it as an extra, but the 120 minute version of the film that was on the laserdisc is the one that counts.

None of us are infallible and I am only going by the memories of a Disney animator that is no longer with us that I was able to spend a some time with back in the 80's and the actual booking of the film in the 80's and 90's.

 

One thing is certain, Fantasia went through a lot of changes over the years and unless you were in one of the 12 theatres that showed the road show in 1940 you will never see the original version.
 

 

[bigshot]

Originally Posted by cafink
/p>

If I understand correctly (and please set me straight if I don't), the 125-minute version that's on DVD (and soon Blu-ray) is the originally-released version of the film (except for the cropping of the "Sunflower" scenes and the dubbing of Deems Taylor). Why isn't the original version "the one that counts"? What makes the laserdisc version specifically superior to all the other alternate versions that were created over the years?

The added roadshow scenes contribute nothing to the movie. They just slow down already slow introductions. They were cut before the film went into general release for good reason. The laserdisc version (aside from the Pastoral censorship) was the way the film always looked to general audiences. It included both the original mono and the recreated Fantasound stereo tracks. There was no audio sweetening (adding new sound effects, remixing, etc.) and the color manipulation and intrusive digital restoration that Disney uses on every release now wasn't used. The laserdisc of Fantasia was about the last really accurate video release Disney did. (Aside from the black centaurettes being cut).

 

[SilverWook]

There was a mono track on the Laserdisc? Mine doesn't have one. Or was this exclusive to the CAV box set?

 

[MBrousseau]

I just happen to see this posting containing all the specs for the future Blu-ray edition of Fantasia. I can't believe my eyes: I see no indication of an alternative audio soundtrack that might have been offering the 1982 true Dolby Stereo reorchestrated by Irwin Kostal. This is simply sad. I don't believe I'll get that edition because of that missing feature. Even though the picture quality will be inprooved, I can't find satisfaction with the original audio quality. I know that the original soundtrack must be there but, for goodness sake, why not include an alternative audio track for people like me who prefer a high fidelity soundtrack. The Fantasound of 1940 sounds so terrible.

 

[Craig Beam]

Originally Posted by MBrousseau

I'm gonna go ahead and COMPLETELY disagree with you. Jesus, this is a 60 year-old film... it's never going to sound pristine. However, the audio on the Fantasia DVD is fine, and will likely be even better on the blu-ray. And the Kostal re-recording isn't there because IT'S NOT THE ACTUAL SOUNDTRACK, and ISN'T PART OF THE FILM. It shouldn't be there.


I can't imagine somebody actually skipping this release because of this. Your loss.

 

[Mark-P]

I agree with Craig. I think the folks at Disney realized that reissuing Fantasia in 1982 with a re-recorded digital soundtrack was a mistake and that is most likely why it has never appeared on any of the home video incarnations. The new soundtrack was issued on LP and cassette, but I can't even find any evidence that it was ever released on CD. I agree it would make a nice supplement for the blu-ray, but I for one would never watch the movie with anything but the classic Leopold Stokowski original recording, which by the way is far from terrible.

 

[Steve Tannehill]

The digital soundtrack was released on CD. I have it.