Buying a new house, Home Cinema possible in 8ft(w)x15ft(l)x10ft(h) room? (1 Viewer)

[luvfilm]

Hi, First time poster so forgive me if i make any rookie mistakes

I am in process of trying to buy a house and one of the rooms is a converted garage with the 8ft(w)x15ft(l)x10ft(h) dimensions. Do you think it is possible to get a good home cinema set up in it or is 8ft not wide enough? I am tempted to go the custom installer route and see if they can do anything with it but just would like to get this forums views on it too.

researching(googling!) online it seems that at 8ft wide i would be looking at 96-110 inches(min-max) screen, i think that would be pretty good personally and really enhance movie and sports watching! 15feet seems to be in the right ballpark for throwing distance too for these size screen but please correct me if i am wrong.

8 feet wide would probably make it hard to put speakers to either side of the screen however, i take it with wall speakers you are looking at smashing into walls and roofs etc? i see a lot of the testimonials for these types of rooms are from restaurant owners and managing directors etc, i am on a modest wage and the house is residential, i wonder if i am setting sights too high?

Also would it need to be soundproofed? It is a detatched property but neighbour house is probably 5 feet away. I am hoping the walls are thick considering it used to be a garage though?

Budget wise i am looking at £3000-5000(max), do you think is realistic for a proper cinema style room(seats not a deal breaker, i could do with a normal sofa just fine if had too) but big screen, 7.1 Surround Sound(if 7.1 is worth it in a small room) and the actual projector for three grand? doable?

Thanks for taking the time to read this, i just had a lot of questions as you can see, but this possible project has really inspired me and i cannot stop thinking about it now so i just had to sign up and ask, if you find time to reply(even if its bad news) i would really appreciate it

Thanks!

 

[Robert_J]

big screen, 7.1 Surround Sound(if 7.1 is worth it in a small room) and the actual projector for three grand? doable?

I'm assuming since you used the funny "L" that you are in Europe. I'm not sure what products you have over there but I was able to go 7.1 with a projector and screen for less than $3,000 but I like to DIY a lot of things.

I built my screen for $75 and it took a weekend. I use an Epson 8345 projector. When I bought my receiver, I bought last year's model. I built my front 3 speakers and subs. I installed everything myself. All of this to maximize the results and minimize how much I spent.

As far as screen sizes go, you need to pick it based on viewing angles. I used this site - http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html At the time I was limited on the material width for my screen and ended up with 103". From there I calculated my seating distance. Then I was able to figure out placement of the projector and found one with a good zoom feature that would work with my screen in the location I chose.

Doing the work yourself is very rewarding if you have the tools and the basic know-how. I wasn't afraid to rip into a wall to run speaker wire so I read up on how to do it with minimal damage to a wall and jumped in with both feet.

 

[luvfilm]

Thank you for your reply

Yes i am in europe. i had a budget of 3-5k and today had a quote from a home cinema installer who said home cinema installation would be 10k(that is including sound proof walls,seating etc)

He also mentioned that at 5k budget DIY is best bet but tbh i am hopeless with that sort of stuff.

But i will do some reasing up on it.

at 8 feet wide do you think i could fit a 100 inch screen?

 

[Stephen_J_H]

Absolutely. 8 feet is 96", and the 100" measurement is diagonal, meaning you need a width of 87 inches and a height of 49.5 inches. You'd wind up with 4.5" either side of the screen, which is tight, but not too tight, depending on how you want to place your speakers. It would definitely be worth looking into acoustically transparent screen material and placing your LCR speakers behind the screen.

 

[Robert_J]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HZRM9K...t=&hvlocphy=9013747&hvtargid=pla-318217013266

100" screen from Amazon that requires minimal tools to build.

Finding a 4.5" wide speaker for each side will be difficult though. I found this design but it's almost 6" wide.


Something along that design but slightly narrower should work.

Or like Stephen said, go acoustically transparent. That will allow you to build your screen from wall to wall and put any sized speakers behind it. The screen is more expensive but it will give you much more flexibility with speakers.

 

[luvfilm]

Thanks again

I would like to physically measure it before i order any screen but uk garage sizes are 8 feet by 16 so it is likely i can fit a 100 inch screen which is great news,possibly even 106.

I will look into acoustic screens, will they not wave around with speakers blasting out sound waves directly behind them though?

Do you recommend retractable screen from roof or the stand portable ones you can get?

Projector wise i am thinking 16.9, as it is 2017 now do you think it would be remiss of me not to go 4k from the get go? i Hear Epson is the best manufacturer for projectors? do you recommend a model? i see the Epson 8345 was mentioned earlier

Finally do the HDMI's for tv,blu ray player,ps4 etc go into the projector or into some sort of hub?

Sorry for all the questions! just trying to get it all set in my head.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

You will find many answers in these boards to your questions, but here are some basics:
1. Screen: is your HT room going to be single purpose [HT only], or will you be using it for other purposes as well? Being a multi-purpose room is the only reason I can think of for having a retractable screen of any sort. If this will be only a home theatre room, you'll be looking at a more permanent installation, especially if you're looking at acoustically transparent screens.

2. 1080p vs. 4K: this is a $ question more than anything else, as well as future proofing. Optoma currently sells the least expensive 4K DLP projector with HDR, which runs about 2000 quid [UHD550X]. Epson currently doesn't produce a "true" 4K projector, as even its laser projector models generate quasi 4K through pixel shift. 4K requires two things: a big enough screen and viewing distance close enough to appreciate the difference. You'll find the difference between a 1080p projector at home and digital projection at your local World of Cine to be negligible, as most cinema projectors are 2K.

3. Choice of projector: again, how much are you willing to spend, and what projector technology do you want? the current tech falls into 3 chip categories and 3 illumination categories:
(a) DLP, LCD, and LCoS/Q for imaging chips; and
(b) Xenon lamp, LED and Laser for illumination.

DLP uses a colour wheel in front of the lamp or RGB LEDs/Lasers to illuminate its micromirror array to produce an image. Some people are prone to a "rainbow effect" caused by the spinning colour wheel, but YMMV. LCD uses dichroic mirrors to split white light into its RGB constituents, which then travels through 3 LCD panels to produce its images, and then through the lens. Some LCD projectors exhibit a "screen door" effect, showing the individual pixels.
LCoS/Q is a reflective technology, combining elements of DLP and LCD. In this case, the light is again split by dichroic mirrors (or in the case of laser projection, there are 2 laser LEDs, one of which is split by a mirror into red and green). The light is then reflected off an LCD panel mounted on either a silicon or quartz crystal, then through the lens to the screen. LCoS/Q projectors are produced by Sony, JVC and Canon, while LCoQ is unique to Epson's laser projectors. These are among the more expensive projectors on the market, and Sony's and JVC's models carry trademarked names for the technology [SXRD and D-ILA, respectively]

As for illumination, Laser is best [long life, bright], but expensive; LED is getting better for illumination, but still can't deliver the same level of brightness as Laser or Xenon, and Xenon lamp is plenty bright, but will need to be replaced with some regularity. Again, you can't go into this just assuming that one projector brand is best. Go to an electronics store where you can see each tech in action, read online reviews and make an informed decision.

4. Projectors typically have one, or at best, two HDMI ports, meaning you will need some sort of input management, and the speakers on a projector are not what you want for an HT. You'll be looking at a receiver with at least as many inputs as you have playback devices; this will also power your speakers. You can get a decent receiver for 300-500 quid, depending on what you want. Do you want Dolby Atmos/DTS:X? How many subwoofers do you want to run? Do you want 4K passthrough to futureproof yourself? How much power do you think you'll need? All these are questions to consider for a receiver.

There are many others, like speakers, subwoofer size and placement, wall colour, acoustic dampening and soundproofing, etc. This is a lengthy post and I've only scratched the surface. I think anyone here would agree with me when I say that you definitely do not want a HTiB [home theatre in a box] for this application, but everything else is up to you. Happy hunting!

 

[Bmfb1980]

Well, you are going the right route by planning everything out first.

Ultimately, the room will only be as good as the container around it. Be sure to consider seating arrangements and placements, and how that could affect the viewing experience. Also, for such a small room the acoustics are paramount. It does not a lick of good to spend a small fortune on whatever new 4k gizmo is out there, if the sound is crappy because of echo, reverb, and all the deadzones caused by waves overlapping or cancelling each other out. So be sure to include some nice, heavy velvet curtains or something similar. Or acoustic tile in calculated places. Personally, a home theater should *look* like a theater in my opinion, which means not like a living room with shelves full of bric-a-brac, pictures of mom, windows, and other things one does not find in a theater! That's half the experience. The other half is quality of picture and sound.

I took three years and built a movie theater above my garage. I saved a ton of $$$ doing it myself, it only cost ~5k including a complete tear-down and re-build of the entire room down to the studs. It looks like a million bucks with the curtains and theater lighting. And when the lights come down and a movie fires up, it looks and sounds spectacular because of all the planning behind placement of objects, and the acoustics.

Once you've got a plan as to how the room will look, and how you will ensure the best acoustics, plan how you will connect everything. Personally, I prefer all the electronics out of the field of view of any screen, so either off to the side or behind the seating. It means a lot of length of cabling, but with newer equipment it means fewer cables too. You should also consider a unit to "condition" and clean the power supply to every connected component. Belkin makes some fantastic line conditioners. I created a reverse-outlet from the wall that supplies power to the OLED on the other side of the room from the amp/media players; that way they are all on the same circuit, and moreso isolated on a mini-circuit that contains only the audio/video gear. The result? Perfectly clarion, pristine audio and video. Never any interference, even if I run power equipment in the garage below (which btw you also can't even hear due to all the acoustic considerations I built into the room!)...

Indeed, I don't want to hear any external noises when I'm watching a movie. No car horns, no barking dogs, no kids playing... nada. NO interruptions when the studio light is on lol.

You can make any size room work... large or small. The key is to really *plan* it out, get out the measuring stick, and make sure you are being realistic/accurate. One thing to note again... you can spend a fortune on fancy equipment but if you don't spend the same on the actual physical room... it will definitely show, and the experience won't be as good as you'd expect.

I'm glad I tore out all the walls, put in acoustic insulation (walls, ceiling, AND floor), installed thick carpet/padding, painted the whole room black and purchased 64' of heavy velvet curtains for all around the walls. When I close off the curtains... the room is pitch black and all ambient sound is distinctly muted/absent, so when the speakers are on the surround effect is massive and accentuated! I could play a movie off an iPad, hooked up to a bluetooth speaker... and it would probably look and sound amazing. So the room makes the gear, not the other way around

So just think how much bang you will get from a fancy system if you do the room right beforehand

 

[luvfilm]

I am so sorry Stephen and Bmfb! i lost a long reply and i am so frustrated right now! this post will be briefer now

* i need to decide if i want a dedicated HT or a multi purpose room. For movies i love idea of HT but i would also like a normal tv in there to watch casually. maybe i could go with retrable screen?

*projector wise i am budgeting 2k, i will look into lumens and lazers before i purchase. would like to future proof but is 4k worth it from 13 feet away? can you view 1080p on a 4k projector?

* i need a a/v system with lots of hdmi ports for satellite tv,blu ray player,ps4, fire stick(kodi) and laptop. but can swap cables if this drives cost up too much i guess.

*worried about soundproofing looking ugly with panels and wallpaper etc during daytime when sun is shinging in. that said neighbours are only 5 feet away

*i want it too look slick so no cables hanging around, but i might need to get someone into do it on labour costs as i am useless with diy.

*i now know its not just hardware that matters!,do you guys have pics of your HT rooms? would be great to see for inspiration

Thanks and apologies reply is shorter than first expected.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

My current HT is far less ambitious than what you're proposing, but the same principles apply. I have a 50" Panasonic 3D plasma fed by an Onkyo TX-NR 555 7.2 channel receiver. For sources, I have an Apple TV, 2 Blu-ray players [Sony 3D and Samsung 2D--long story about disc compatibility that would bore you to tears], a Toshiba HD-A30 HD DVD player, cable box, XBox 360 and Nintendo Switch. My speaker setup is Dolby Atmos/DTS:X 5.1.2 with the .2 representing height channels. Rear channels were pointless because of the size of the room [don't have exact measurements, but it's approx. 12' (w) x 18' (l) x 7' (h)]. My receiver only has 6 HDMI inputs, and as you can see, there are 7 sources, so I put an HDMI switch on one input.

Your room's dimensions are really great in terms of setting up an HT, particularly with those 10' ceilings, which make an Atmos/DTS:X setup a strong possibility. The general rule for seating distance is 1.5:1, where 1 represents width of your screen. With the proposed 100" screen, that breaks down to just over 11' away, or 133.5". This would also give you room for back channels as well as height channels.

You mentioned not wanting the HT to look unsightly to the neighbours. That suggests there is/are large window(s) along at least one wall? If that's the case, either you'll want to look into room darkening window treatments or a very bright projector. There are reasons why cinemas are windowless rooms, and it's not just light; it's also acoustic, since windows can have strange reflective effects on sound. You also mentioned wanting to possibly have a smaller TV in the room for regular watching. Without reading too much into this, it may make your HT room a little easier.

I neglected to mention a subcategory of projectors: short throw and ultra-short throw projectors. Thes guys can be placed in some cases within inches of the screen and give a picture of up to 100". i saw an HT setup in the UK using one of these, where the guy had a ceiling mounted retractable screen with a 50" LCD panel on a TV stand behind it. He'd grab a table, put the projector on it, plug in a secondary HDMI cable to the projector [yes, many receivers have dual HDMI outs], pull down the screen, and his speakers were situated such that they were not blocked by the screen. He was using the LG PF 1000U, which runs about $1600 Cdn, and is available in the UK. It is also possible to ceiling mount this li'l guy, and it has Smart TV functions as well. It's an LED projector, so it's not blindingly bright, but it does produce 1000 lumens, which is plenty bright in a light-controlled room. It is full 1080p, so worth considering.

A secondary TV on a stand will also shorten your room length, which isn't as bad as it sounds, since it will put you closer to 10' away from the projector screen if you decide to go with rear channels [you always want some room between you and the rears, otherwise there is no discernible sound effect from the rear; that's why I went with a 5.1.2 setup in my room]. It also makes going acoustically transparent with your screen material more feasible, since you have that extra room behind the screen for speakers.

I know it's a lot to digest, which is why I say, take your time planning, and consider building the room up component by component. I started with a receiver [I'm now on my 5th in 27 years], and built from there. Ultimately, I plan to do a dedicated HT room, but it's going to take some time and effort.

 

[luvfilm]

Yes i have a lot to consider but this has all really helped. i will design the room on paper how i would like it and go from there. a great a/v hub and speaker system is paramount and then if i need to tweak seating or paint walls i can do that after

hopefully will start work on it by the end of the year, i will keep you updated!

Thanks again

 

[THX1138]

Hi, First time poster so forgive me if i make any rookie mistakes

I am in process of trying to buy a house and one of the rooms is a converted garage with the 8ft(w)x15ft(l)x10ft(h) dimensions. Do you think it is possible to get a good home cinema set up in it or is 8ft not wide enough? I am tempted to go the custom installer route and see if they can do anything with it but just would like to get this forums views on it too.

researching(googling!) online it seems that at 8ft wide i would be looking at 96-110 inches(min-max) screen, i think that would be pretty good personally and really enhance movie and sports watching! 15 feet seems to be in the right ballpark for throwing distance too for these size screen but please correct me if i am wrong.


Absolutely- you can make a surprisingly good home cinema in a small space. So don't let the small room size put you off.

My dedicated Home Cinema is only 2.4 metres (8 feet) wide by 3.98 metres long (13”). For two people is a great size - very cinematic.
I have a Sapphire SFSC203 (92") 16:9 fix frame screen and an Epson projector mounted on the ceiling. My room is a converted single garage (UK). Sounds obvious, but don't try and over do it with too much furniture. Making sure you know all your dimensions and buy appropriately sized comfortable seats/sofa which still allow you to walk around them. Don't squeeze things in. This really helps balance the room. If something is too big for the space, it feels over-powering and wrong. Less is definitely more in a small space!

Draw things out to scale - there's loads of online tools available, but graph paper and a pencil works just as well...


Hope this helps inspire you!


James.

 

[luvfilm]

Thank you for that! My room is also a UK garage so this fills me with confidence. Has anyone used a portable projection screen? As the end of the room with all the tv connections has a window on it so i cannot fix a screen. Portable or retractable,which is better?

sound wise i have planned out how 5.1 will work and yes i am only planning on a sofa in the room pretty much!

Thanks

 

[THX1138]

Thank you for that! My room is also a UK garage so this fills me with confidence. Has anyone used a portable projection screen? As the end of the room with all the tv connections has a window on it so i cannot fix a screen. Portable or retractable,which is better?

sound wise i have planned out how 5.1 will work and yes i am only planning on a sofa in the room pretty much!

Thanks

Cheaper, portable screens tend to be flimsy and it can be really hard to get things to line up perfectly each time you use them. The extra faff involved will put you off using it as often as you otherwise would. Definitely sub-standard to a proper retractable screen!

There are some really great retractable screens which ensure the screen is taught and wrinkle-free every time using tension tabs. They cost more, but are worth the investment. I would strongly advise you go for a permanent ceiling mounted projector too - again just makes alignment a non-issue when you want to use it. Checkout the screens Allan has at idealav. I've seen the one Allan has on demo, and it's great. If you can make the room completely dark all the time using thick curtains or similar, then a white screen with 1.0 gain is the way to go. If you can't get it completely dark, then a grey screen will help.

Also, regarding your 5.1 system. Again, don't try and over-power the room with huge speakers. Smaller satellite speakers with 1 (or 2) subwoofers will be ideal. I went for the Monitor Audio Apex range and they sound fantastic, but there's other great options out there too.
Smaller speakers are also easier to place in a small environment. I have my main front speakers (and centre speaker) below the screen.

Don't discount Dolby Atmos/DTS-X in a small space either. Even if you don't want to go for ceiling speakers today, it may well be worth running speaker cables while you re-develop the space. Much easier to do it while it's still in the build phase, rather than trying to run in new cables once you've finish decorating! Also, make sure you run at least two good quality HDMI cables to your projector (by good, I don't mean really expensive!). Try to keep the HDMI cable lengths as short as possible (no more than 10 metres if you can get away with it). This will help to future-proof your system.

My single garage is attached to the side of the house, so it's accessible through the kitchen, but unlike the rest of the house, it's only constructed of a single thickness of brick. If yours is the same, then you should create an inner skin using a wooden frame, and then fill the space with hardened Rockwool panels, and then use loose Rockwool (from rolls) to fill any remaining cavity space. Once you put plasterboard over the cavity you'll achieve excellent heat insulation and sound isolation. Fill the loft space with 2 or 3 thicknesses of Rockwool rolls too. You can get everything you need from any DIY store. This is the most important part of the garage to home cinema conversion, and it needs to be done right (you won't need planning permission, but you do need to comply with UK building regulations and have it inspected/approved).

If the garage has a concrete floor, you'll need to create a new raised floor, and again fill the cavity with something like polystyrene insulation.

Plan everything first so you get the correct number of electrical sockets exactly where you need them. Think about whether you need any hard-wire Ethernet cables/sockets. Get any wall mounted lights / LED strips installed and positioned just right during the conversion. Planning it right, will save you a heap of money and hassle in the long-run!




This is mine ^


Cheers,

James.

 

[luvfilm]

James

My room is already converted from a garage so has carpet nd the walls are painted white. This is not ideal for projection i understand but not sure when i will be able to repaint it tbh

I will get black curtains though for the only window in the room,so it should be dark, however with white walls would you recommend a grey projection screen?

Ok i will look into retractable screen rather than portable,however does this mean i will have to pay for a builder to install it? how are these powered? battery or plug? if its a plug will the wires need to be put through the ceiling into a power socket?

I am certain i want one with no wrinkles so i am happy to pay a lil extra, i will check out the site you recommended.

Thanks

 

[luvfilm]

btw just seen the pic, looks great!

i take it your sofa is not against the wall? as doesnt seem 15 feet away

i like that cabinet for a/v reciever etc, i will be looking for something similar, something wide that stretches accross the back wall

also is their anything wrong with putting front and centre speakers behind the projection screen? by a 1-2ft? i know wal screen sometimes cover wallspeakers so it shouldnt be any different?

 

[Stephen_J_H]

Unless you have no other option, your sofa really shouldn't be right against the wall, for various reasons, including rear surround speakers. It actually enhances your audio experience not to be right against the back wall with the sofa [less weird reflection issues], in addition to putting you closer to the screen and being better able to appreciate all the fine details. This graphic does a bang-up job of explaining screen distance vs. discernible resolution:

As you can see, 15ft is within the sweet spot for 1080p being discernible, but just barely, whereas anything less than that puts you squarely in the range between 1080p and 2160p, which is 4K.

 

[luvfilm]

OK guys i have decided it will be a multi purpose room so i will be getting an electric motorised projection screen which is tab tensioned

Can any of you guys recommend a good one? i dont want a cheap one that ruins the film experience.