Buying a gun (1 Viewer)

[LDfan]

get a .357, or a .45 or better yet a trained German Shepherd.


Jeff

 

[Greg Rakaska]

If we didn't have guns to defend ourselves against despots, lunatics, dictators; a lot of us might be speaking Japanese or German right now instead of French or English.

And if said "lunatics, despots and dictators" did not have guns, they would have used sharp pointy sticks to do their damage (middle ages, crusades, etc)

 

[David Baranyi]

Can we refrain from the politics of guns (statements like "A gun is not the solution" or "Guns don't kill people, people kill people") please? This is not a gun control thread, but on buying and registering a gun.

 

[Bry_DD]

I say it's better to have a gun and don't need it, than needing it but you don't have it.

 

[Neil J]

Amen David

 

[Craig Robertson]

Come back after your federally mandated 5 day waiting period (usually more like 7 days).

waived in many states if you have a concealed carry permit.

laws for purchasing firearms vary greatly from state to state. as Mark Brewer (if someone mentions cigarettes, we'll have the ATF covered) suggested, stop by the local gun store. they'll give you all the info you need, and i'm sure that they'll make sure everything is in order before you buy, otherwise they won't be in business long.

 

[Christ Reynolds]

get a .357, or a .45 or better yet a trained German Shepherd

better yet is right. nobody even THINKS of walking near my yard, nevermind entering my house. and there is no risk of anyone getting shot if i leave the safety off of my dog and someone acts foolishly. if i had a gun, nobody would know it unless they tried to get in my house and rob me. IF i was there, i could possibly defend myself. if you dont know that we have a huge dog, you find out as soon as to try to open the door. our dog is ready at any time, day or night. i like the fact that he is a theft deterrent, not just a contingency plan. a burglar will choose another house on the block, and this makes me feel more secure than any firearm ever could.

CJ

 

[NicholasL]

You realize that by having a gun in your house ( I dunno if you got kids or wives or whatever) it gives you the option of using it for something that you might regret later, just by virtue of the fact that it is there. Like if you're in a really messed up emotional state, or drunk as balls...

 

[Eric Kahn]

raging hormones, getting drunk, and mixed up emotional states are never an excuse, our ability to control such things is what makes us law abiding citizens so this is really not an issue

As for the Dog, there are a few of us (Like half the population of the country) who would not dream of ever having a dog in our homes, nor is this an option for apartment renters in my book, not fair to the dog

 

[Christ Reynolds]

As for the Dog, there are a few of us (Like half the population of the country) who would not dream of ever having a dog in our homes, nor is this an option for apartment renters in my book, not fair to the dog

i dont know about the 'half the population' statistic, wherever that came from. however, dog or not, i will never EVER have a gun in my home. and its not fair to the gun.

CJ

 

[Jerry Almeida]

DavidAM,
Keep your ears open for when the next Gun Show will take place. I am in the Tampa area and it seems like there's one every month at the fairgrounds. I used to go frequently, and there was always plenty of knowledgeable, local dealers willing to talk to you. It's a good way to get a lot of research done in one place. They even offer the concealed weapons permit class for free. (Class is free, you still have to pay for the permit.)

Jerry


FYI
Next show in Tampa is on 10/11-10/12
http://www.suncoastgunshows.com/

 

[Matt Stryker]

For home defense, I'll add to the chorus of get a 12 gauge. Usually the sound of ratcheting a shot in the chamber will scare away any ne'er do wells. If not, it makes very large holes and you won't accidentally shoot the neighbor through the walls.

I've actually heard the opposite, especially with 00 buckshot, which seems to be the preferred personal defense round. Todays drywall and 2x4 stud walls just don't offer as much protection to people in adjoining rooms. The author suggested a 410 gauge if you go with buckshot, or a much lighter round if you must use 12 ga. The other big advantage of a 410 is that people of all sizes are much more comfortable handling it. I guess you could always compromise and go with a 20 ga.

I strongly recommend this book for reading before you buy: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

Your public library may have a copy.

 

[DavidAM]

Thanks for the tip Jerry. I do hear of the gun show on the radio all the time...seems like they have many shows. I'll have to check one out.

 

[Jared_B]

waived in many states if you have a concealed carry permit.

Yup - it's that way in my state too - very convenient. David, if/when you do buy a gun, I'd suggest doing the training, and getting your concealed carry permit. Even if you don't ever intend to carry, it can be an asset if you ever had to use your weapon for defense purposes.

 

[Christ Reynolds]

yeah thanks jared, i got that, just figured i'd say a little about what i thought, good for me, right? now go shoot em up!

CJ

 

[AjayM]

Pick the right tool for the job,

A shotgun is the way to go for home defense, and something smaller than a 12ga is usually a better choice. On top of penetration issues they are just a pain to shoot (literally) with any measure of accuracy. A 410 is a good choice, easy to handle, easy to shoot and you can buy ammo for it just about everywhere (even at some Walmarts/Kmart type stores).

If you do decide to get a handgun, don't buy more than you need. Sure you look cool with a .50 Desert Eagle, but you won't be able to hit a barn door on the second shot of a double tap. Nevermind that a .50 or .44 bullet will travel through many walls before becoming non-lethal. A simple .380 or .38 is usually enough, maybe step up to a 9mm (lots of ammo choices = cheaper ammo).

And lastly, if you do decide to buy a weapon for home defense go out and take a couple of combat weapons courses, there are more than a few around and will teach you what you need to do if the crap ever hits the fan. And then practice, practice, practice. You don't know how many times I've been to the range and see people with CCW permits and they can't hit a paper target 15ft in front of them.

Andrew

 

[Steve_Tk]

You don't know how many times I've been to the range and see people with CCW permits and they can't hit a paper target 15ft in front of them.

That's because most people think you just aim and shoot. It takes practice to get good, and more practice to stay good.

I had a bet with a guy once. We were sitting on the couch and he said he could probably hit the smoke detector that was 15 ft away 9 out of 10 times. We went to the range and he lost big time. Most people can't hit what they are aiming at when they try (without practice). Can you imagine what really happens when they are under stress and need to hit something?

 

[AjayM]

Ain't that the truth. I blame TV/Movies for this mostly (and video games as well), everybody thinks you just pick up a fire-arm and point it in the general direction and squeeze the trigger. The bad guy will then get picked up off his feet and fly backwards 10ft after you made a perfect shot between the eyes from 20ft away. I even had a guy argue with me that he should buy a .45 or .44 (for home defence/personal protection) because he assumed that the bigger bullet would stop a "bad guy" with one shot (by knocking them over). Of course he had to get a big long physics lesson on why that's impossible and a trip to the range to show him that he really couldn't put 5 quick shots on the target with a big caliber with "range" loads (typically doesn't give the same kick as a "real" load).

The first time I ever shot a handgun, it was a rented 9mm Glock at the local range. This is under basically perfect conditions, a double tap would basically be the first shot on target (center of a silhouette) and the 2nd would be a good 10 inches away (basically a complete miss). It got even worse another time when I rented a snub .357 revolver, the second shot wouldn't even make it on the paper most of the time.

Now put yourself in the worst possible situation, you're dead asleep when you wake up to the sounds of somebody in your house, your adreniline level spikes, you're shaking from all of this, your eyes aren't adjusted to the light, now you have to grab your weapon, make sure it's able to do its job (make sure a round is chambered, make sure the safety is off or your finger is right on top of it), then you have to identify the problem (don't want to shoot your kid sneaking in late one night or an innocent drunk person), then you take aim in a dark house with poor contrast and make a life altering decision. Oh yea, all of the above happens in less time than it took you to read this paragraph.

Still want a gun?

Andrew

 

[Joe Szott]

Good stuff here, I must admit I am rethinking if we need to keep the 12 gauge or maybe opt for a lighter shotgun. I have salt pellets (or whatever they are called) ready to be loaded in there anytime, but maybe just a lighter gauge would be a good idea.

I second the shotgun over pistol sentiments presented here, even smaller rounds are dangerous. 9 mm are smaller, but from what I have heard they can get even more house penetration than the large caliber guns. It's because the round is long and thin, so as long as it hits something soft (like human tissue or drywall) it just tunnels through and keeps going. Less surface contact and equal speed equals more distance traveled without momentum loss. Can go through 2-3 walls in a normal house, as long as it doesn't hit a stud. So go for pellets and a shotgun.

 

[AjayM]

Salt pellets are a bad idea, at least to me. If you get to the point that you have to point a loaded weapon at somebody it means that you or somebody else is in grave danger of death or injury. I want to make sure that whatever is in the weapon pointing at the "bad guy" is going to hurt him and bring him down as fast as possible. Get somebody ramped up on drugs/alcohol/adreniline and salt pellets are likely to do nothing but piss them off even more.

Penetration issues?
Let's look at some of the ballistic info on Remington cartridges, I tried to use Remington Express for all of them (the Golden Saber round is roughly the same).

380
Remington Express - JHP - 95gr
Velocity (ft/sec) - Muzzle = 955 - 50yds = 865 - 100yds = 785

9mm
Remington Express - JHP - 147gr
Velocity (ft/sec) - Muzzle = 990 - 50yds = 941 - 100yds = 900

.44
Remington Express - JHP - 240gr
Velocity (ft/sec) - Muzzle = 1180 - 50yds = 1081 - 100yds = 1010

.45 Auto (tested with a 5" barrel)
Remington Express - JHP - 230gr
Velocity (ft/sec) - Muzzle = 835 - 50yds = 800 - 100yds = 767

454 Casull (Hunting gun basically)
Core-lokt (hunting round) - JHP - 300gr
Velocity (ft/sec) - Muzzle = 1625 - 50yds = 1472 - 100yds =1335

Out of the above the .45 will have the least penetration (has a big bullet with low muzzle velocity).

How about a Shotgun?
12ga muzzle velocity on 00 buck = 1000-1200ft/sec
20ga - 410 is about the same
But the pellets are smaller and "stop" easier than a big ol' bullet (ie will go through less walls/people/cars/etc).

Andrew