Buy now! You keep using that word but we dunna think it means what Amazon thinks it means (1 Viewer)

[Sam Posten]

http://boingboing.net/2016/05/13/clicking-buy-now-doesnt.html

Probably not news to HTF folks but the general public generally does not know that buy doesn't mean buy for digital goods.

These authors are calling for the FTC to step in. I think that could be smart but could also have unforeseen results too...

 

[Phil A]

Well they also are from the U of P. PA for sales tax purposes defines tangible personal property under the law which includes certain telecommunications services (there are other example in other laws, computer software and whether something is pre-written or custom - my point is simply that many of our laws go back to the 1930s and 1940s and have not caught up yet):
"§ 31.1. Persons and sales subject to tax.

An excise tax shall be imposed upon the sale at retail or the use within this Commonwealth of tangible personal property and certain services, unless otherwise exempted.

(1) Sale at retail includes a transfer for value of the ownership, custody or possession of tangible personal property. ‘‘Rentals or leases’’ of tangible personal property and the grant of a license to use or consume are sales at retail.

(2) Use includes the exercise of a right or power incidental to the ownership, custody or possession of tangible personal property and shall include, but not be limited to, transportation. Use also includes the obtaining of taxable services.

(3) The term tangible personal property includes, but is not limited to, the following:

(i) Goods, wares and merchandise, other than household supplies purchased from retail establishments for residential consumption.

(ii) Steam, electricity and fuel oil, when not purchased directly by the user solely for his own residential use.

(iii) Natural, manufactured or bottled gas when not purchased directly by the user solely for his own residential use.

(iv) Intrastate telephone and telegraph service for nonresidential use."

 

[Phil A]

Here's a simplified breakdown of canned vs. custom software (there are also similar problems with computer maintenance and lump sum - parts and labor - equipment maintenance contracts). It can drive you crazy (I'm a good example).
http://taxfoundation.org/blog/states-sales-taxes-software

 

[Josh Steinberg]

How is this any different than when iTunes says "Buy" next to their items on their storefront? Or Vudu, or any other digital retailer? It seems unfair to place blame solely on Amazon when this is standard industry practice regardless of retailer.

 

[Sam Posten]

Nope but I didn't have room for that in title

 

[Josh Steinberg]

It just seems wrong to single out Amazon in the title since it's an industry-wide practice. People who don't use Amazon but who do purchase titles digitally might miss the post entirely because it would seem that it doesn't apply to them.

 

[Dave Upton]

Amazon is the 800lb gorilla, but everyone does it. Ironically, e-commerce is very loosely regulated. Not that it necessarily needs more, but I don't think legislators have ever even considered the need before now.

I personally think that it's deceptive, but I will hold my breath on changes. Amazon has significant lobbying power now, as does Apple.

 

[David Weicker]

I'm not a lawyer, but I've always wondered if those 'limited rights' clause are legal or enforceable. Especially when the specific term "Buy" is used at purchase time

If a contract contains mutually exclusive statements (for example "the paint is solid red. the paint is solid blue"),can one of the parties try to enforce just one?

It seems to me that Buy (ownership) / Limited (non-ownership) are mutually exclusive.

 

[KeithAP]

If people are too stupid to take the time to fully understand what they are buying I have no sympathy for them if they are "surprised" there are restrictions on their digital purchases.

-Keith

 

[Sam Posten]

It just seems wrong to single out Amazon in the title since it's an industry-wide practice. People who don't use Amazon but who do purchase titles digitally might miss the post entirely because it would seem that it doesn't apply to them.

Read the article, the study is actually ABOUT AMAZON.

Imagine you purchase a new book from Amazon. You visit amazon.com find a book that looks promising, click the familiar Buy Now button, wait a mere two days for Prime delivery, and promptly place that new volume on your bookshelf, waiting for the perfect rainy day to crack it open. The next morning, you wake up to find a book-sized gap on your shelf. Your book has disappeared. Just then, you receive an email from Amazon customer service explaining that—at the copyright holder’s request—the book has been recalled.

 

[Brent Reid]

Here's a recent article in the LA Times:

• When you buy digital content on Amazon or iTunes, you don't exactly own it

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I'm not a lawyer, but I've always wondered if those 'limited rights' clause are legal or enforceable. Especially when the specific term "Buy" is used at purchase time

If a contract contains mutually exclusive statements (for example "the paint is solid red. the paint is solid blue"),can one of the parties try to enforce just one?

It seems to me that Buy (ownership) / Limited (non-ownership) are mutually exclusive.

Why not? People have sold limited rights for ages. For instance, you "buy" a theater ticket, or a ticket to a sporting event, but it's not a forever purchase - it's a purchase of limited license. People purchasing ebooks or digital content are doing the same thing - buying a limited license.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Why not? People have sold limited rights for ages. For instance, you "buy" a theater ticket, or a ticket to a sporting event, but it's not a forever purchase - it's a purchase of limited license. People purchasing ebooks or digital content are doing the same thing - buying a limited license.

True, but a sporting event or movie theater ticket is to an event with well established beginning and completion date/time. Digital content is much more vague in its duration, which is where I think people get confused.

 

[[email protected]]

I think it is confusing to some. I believe UV is still the only one that at least says you will never lose your rights to your purchased content. Maybe that's why Amazon and itunes still haven't joined.

 

[Cranston37+]

I think it's all a moot point because I think the industry will eventually move to a subscription based model not unlike the music industry has done...

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I think it's all a moot point because I think the industry will eventually move to a subscription based model not unlike the music industry has done...

Hopefully we'll have a little bit of both, the way you can currently purchase individual songs or albums on iTunes for download, or subscribe to their service and do the streaming thing.

 

[Everett S.]

They change things after you already paid for a film !!! That's what M-Go did ,you have to agree to new terms before you can use their site. again.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Hopefully we'll have a little bit of both, the way you can currently purchase individual songs or albums on iTunes for download, or subscribe to their service and do the streaming thing.

As well as have the ability to rent a film, which is why I use streaming. That's different than the music industry model, as I cannot imagine someone wanting to rent a song or album for one time listening.