Buster Keaton Shorts (1920-1923) Blu-ray Set by Kino (1 Viewer)

[Eric Peterson]

I'm glad that I did not pre-order this set. This is definitely going to stay on my wishlist until I hear some definitive reason to upgrade. The complete "Hard Luck" would have pushed this over the top, but now it's merely a "Like to Have". I'll spend my money elsewhere. I will always take complete and in horrible condition over incomplete and in good condition........ALWAYS!!!

 

[David_B_K]

@ David_B_K Wow never thought i'd see the see the day.... Passive-aggressive,misplaced sarcasm AND mean-spirited comments about a company,who,correct me if i'm wrong,from all standards goes out of its way to have the top transfers on many many occasions. need i remind you of the overall praise for the BD"s of The general,Our hospitality etc...? here is one example. http://hpr1.com/film/article/kino_puts_classic_keaton_onto_blu-ray When Richard Pryor was sitting next to Milton Berle on the Mike Douglas show,he started laughing at some story Berle was telling. It wasn"t funny to Milton. He glared at Pryor and said :" Pick your battles baby " I haven"t checked your other 708 posts,maybe i"ll have a better view of who you are,but i started with this one and this one stumped me. There are other companies to vilify.If you're going to do that anyways,put that shoulder chip to better use.

I used the word IDIOTS and you guys are throwing a hissy fit. Seriously, I don't think it's that big a deal. Talk about "picking battles". You're wasting more time and bandwidth trashing me on my use of that term than seems necessary, IMO. Instead of this being about an "ultimate" edition that's not so ultimate, it is now about me. Enjoy reading my other 700 some-odd posts. Prepare to see more bad manners and vitriol than your eyes can stand. They're not for the faint of heart.

 

[Danny Burk]

Kino isn't to blame. Lobster Films refused to allow them to use the HARD LUCK ending, and several additional bits in other shorts. See this Nitrateville thread for more info: http://nitrateville.com/viewtopic.php?t=9045&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=90 I believe the parts relevant to this discussion start on page 4 of the thread.

 

[montrealfilmguy]

David_B_K err...thanks for warning me i guess ? Now i won't waste my time reading 700 posts of attitude and be more productive in a number of ways And i'm the one wasting time and bandwith.700 posts and counting.Almost funnier than Buster. I gave a chance to a complete stranger who found the best way to drop the ball on that opportunity.That'll show me. A lot of times,in life you can be sad about stuff,but don't be mad,that stuff will always point back to you or kick you in the Kino. On another note,Nitrateville.com looks like a fun site to read.

 

[Brianruns10]

While a bit harsh, I think David's point is a legitimate one. Kino is a great company, but if they have a failing, it's that they rush their product sometimes. I had similar misgivings about their Metropolis blu-ray, which I felt was woefully lacking in supplements given it's rich history, and my feeling that any proper treatment of that film must include the alternate, American cut for comparison, and ideally the entirety of the Argentine version for comparison, since it is derived from a different negative, and has alternate shots and angles. The ending of Hard Luck is vital. We're not talking about a missing shot or two that doesn't detract from the film, we're talking about the bloody ending, the punch line, and one that Keaton believed his greatest. If Kino couldn't get the shot, they should have held off until when they could arrange SOMETHING with Lobster films. There are plenty of other Keaton films they could turn their attention toward in the interim. Instead they have a subpar product. Compare to the gold standard, Criterion. They will wait until the time is right. Recall, that spine number 1, Grand Illusion, was not released as the first title, nor for quite a while, because Criterion was not satisfied with the available elements. And by waiting, the original negative turned up, and they were able to produce a stellar release (now sadly out of print F U Studio Canal). Isn't that good they chose to wait, rather than rush a release which they know would have been subpar? Kudos to them for being so exacting in giving the most complete, quality product to their customers! Kino is great, but they have room to improve, and I hope they do it. They could be on the same level as Criterion.

 

[Eric Peterson]

The ending of Hard Luck is vital. We're not talking about a missing shot or two that doesn't detract from the film, we're talking about the bloody ending, the punch line, and one that Keaton believed his greatest. If Kino couldn't get the shot, they should have held off until when they could arrange SOMETHING with Lobster films. There are plenty of other Keaton films they could turn their attention toward in the interim. Instead they have a subpar product.

I hate to say Ditto........but Ditto!

 

[JoHud]

I won't try to guess why Lobster Films hasn't been sharing its material with Kino lately, which may explain why there have been fewer compilation releases in the vein the the Slapstick Symposium lately. And personally, while a bit disappointing it keeps the collection from being as good as it could be, it is hardly a real dealbreaker for me mostly because the uncut short is available in other DVDs.

 

[Brandon Conway]

If Lobster Films is outright refusing to ever let Kino license the restored version of Hard Luck ever again I don't see them withholding the release indefinitely as a reasonable policy. Everyone points at Criterion but they have had their fair share of limitations based upon licensing deals themselves, from the obvious result of titles going OOP to the cropped image of The Last Emperor.

 

[jacksparrow900]

if they ever are able to use hard luck and daydreams thye could issue replacement disc to ones who already bought the short films collection instead of releasing another whole collection.

 

[montrealfilmguy]

Yes,i can see with all the information provided now that when the punchline is missing,it kind of negates the whole endeavor of putting it there in the first place. I think what i frustrated me about " those Kino idiots " was that i couldn't understand how someone would simply react in such a negative way about a company who obviously cares more than some major studios. I will certainly buy this and look for this gem that is yet unknown to me.And i'm sure i'll be able to find a specialized store here In Montreal to find the dvd with the complete uncut short. Sometimes though, i think its a matter of the lesser of two evils,and in some indirect way some form of double-dipping strategy. Maybe the guy who found that Passion of Joan of arc pristine copy in the asylum should look in all the closets.He may find another 6 minutes of Metropolis and footage from Capra's Lost horizon. On a side note,i recently watched my BD of Twilight zone and watched that Buster episode for the first time.Buster is great,the episode is meh.

 

[David_B_K]

I think what i frustrated me about " those Kino idiots " was that i couldn't understand how someone would simply react in such a negative way about a company who obviously cares more than some major studios.

Jeez, it was a knee-jerk reaction right after having just viewed the film. It did not mean that in my heart of hearts, I feel the people at Kino are idiots. I cannot believe that you have never flown off the handle like that yourself. Your constant harping on this issue is easily more over the top than my original post.

And i'm the one wasting time and bandwith.700 posts and counting.Almost funnier than Buster.

My 700+ posts since 2006 is not very many posts. Your 140+ since April is well on a pace to surpass my bandwidth by a long shot. I wonder how many will be spent in condemning my use of the word idiot? Probably quite a few, I'll wager. Yes, it's almost funnier than Buster. at least as funny as a Buster short with a missing punchline. Getting back to the what should have been the issue at hand, the missing footage from the "Ultimate" edition. I wote the following to Kino: Dear Kino, Today, I received my pre-order from Amazon of the Buster Keaton Short Films Collection on Blu-ray. FYI, I am a huge Keaton fan. I originally bought The Art of Buster Keaton on laserdisc, and later on DVD. I have purchased all the Keaton Blu-rays you have put out up to now. I applaud you for the efforts to which you have gone in releasing the great Keaton films. I particularly enjoyed hearing the Carl Davis music scores on both The General and Our Hospitality. However, I have to say I am baffled and disappointed in the new Blu-ray collection of the short films. The primary reason for my concern is that you included the incomplete version of Hard Luck. On the Keaton Plus disc in the DVD version of The Art of Buster Keaton, you provided a restored version of the film, with its beginning scene restored, as well as its celebrated ending. Can you tell me why you chose to revert to your older version of this short film? I cannot think it was due to better film elements, as the version on the Blu-ray is certainly no better looking than the Keaton Plus DVD, and may even look worse. Considering that the last scene of Hard Luck was supposedly "the biggest laugh-getter" in Buster's career; how could you leave it out? Thanks, DBK I received this response: Hi David, Thanks for your kind words on our Buster Keaton releases. In regards to HARD LUCK, Kino unfortunately no longer has access to the missing footage. Best regards, Kino Lorber, Inc. I deleted the name of the person who contacted me. Of course, we already knew Kino had lost the rights to Hard Luck's ending from Danny's post above. The thing I find odd is this: OK, they didn't have the the rights, which means that version of Hard Luck is not free to them. But how much does it cost to obtain the rights to something that probably is not going to set the rest of the world on fire? Some of us on an internet message board feel strongly about it. I, for one was moved to extremes of hyperbole that were shocking, inexcusable and unforgivable (and about which we will apparently never hear the end). But, seriously, how much could Lobster hope to reap from this missing footage from a 1921 silent comedy short? Are they waiting for a million dollar offer that they will never receive? Have they been possessed by the ghost of Raymond Rohauer? Are they deliberately suppressing it? Are they going to release their own "Ultimate" version?

 

[warnerbro]

The set is wonderful. Most of the shorts are beautiful prints with some scratches. I don't mind scratches as long as the print is a good one. These are so much fun to watch! But I am also disappointed in HARD LUCK. You can even see a better print on YOUTUBE for heaven's sake and it has the restored missing pieces! I guess they couldn't get the rights for it?

 

[Patrick McCart]

Lobster Films has been working with Flicker Alley, so they might not be able to license to Kino. All of Keaton's short films are public domain in the US, though. If Hard Luck only has a standard definition transfer, it would be even more jarring to interpolate PAL footage. If Kino was aiming to make the remasters all 1080i/p, much like the initial Chaplin Keystone restorations utilizing only 35mm until the Flicker Alley revisions with occasional 16mm inserts. The best option is for Kino to try to license the long version for a future release. There's still three more double features after the Battling Butler/Go West release in September. Maybe if enough show interest, it can be feasible.

 

[jacksparrow900]

lobster films a week ago posted a vidoe on youtube of (The Boat ) with the music from the vhs version of the art of buster keaton. Maybe their preparing their own masters for buster keaton it's a shame they can't start a search for all available pieces to keaton's 19 short films an piece them together like they did chaplin at keystone but retain all the music used in the art of buster keaton, I hate when I get used to a music score and then another release uses something different.

 

[Patrick McCart]

The set arrived today and I'm impressed. I really like the new scores by Ben Model. Also neat to see some new footage in some films like Cops. It's not perfect, nor ultimate, but completely worthwhile.

 

[montrealfilmguy]

It's like this One day you don't know Buster. Then you see him grab that speeding car in Cops suddenly flying horizontally and out of the frame and then you know Buster. But the waterfall stunt in Our hospitality... Anyone know if the shot in which he saves the girl..is that the real girl ? The next shot has Buster dropping the girl on the ledge and she 's moving and all but the first is harder to see if it's a mannequin or not. Any specific shorts on this you fellas would recommend ?

 

[Edwin-S]

Is he better than Chaplin? I find Chaplin about as funny as Armadillo roadkill on a Texas highway.

 

[Brandon Conway]

Originally Posted by Edwin-S

Is he better than Chaplin? I find Chaplin about as funny as Armadillo roadkill on a Texas highway.

I personally feel Keaton is funnier than Chaplin overall, mainly because his deadpan "Stone Face" let's you read into his expression what you want. Plus, from a stunt performance and gag aspect Keaton's more interesting to watch (though for strictly humor and without the "thrills" of Harold Lloyd). Having said that, though, I quite like Chaplin. If it's the sentimentality of Chaplin that turns you off, you'll get very little of that from Keaton.


His first short - The 'High' Sign - is on this collection and is one of his best films, IMO. You can see it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8CK10dbMO0&playnext=1&list=PL4D6DC25CFF893437


Give him a shot.

 

[Rodney]

Anyone know if the shot in which he saves the girl..is that the real girl ? The next shot has Buster dropping the girl on the ledge and she 's moving and all but the first is harder to see if it's a mannequin or not.

Kevin Brownlow made an excellent three-part documentary on Buster Keaton ("Buster Keaton: A Hard Act to Follow" which needs to be available on DVD or blu-ray) and they talked about that exact shot. It was Buster that leaps out to grab the girl, but it is a mannequin that they used for the stunt. I love Buster Keaton, and it was COPS that made me a fan. I love that short! I first watched it in 8mm on loan from my local library, back when they had BlackHawk Films reels available to check out. No music, just the clatter of the film as it went through the projector. Great times!

 

[Professor Echo]

I find Max Linder funnier than both Chaplin and Keaton, but I don't want to start that argument here because humor is too subjective for debate.


As to Kino, many of their silent releases on SD have had Pal speedup, so they are hardly beyond reproach. I am in the market for an all region Blu Ray player so I can pick up the Eureka MOC METROPOLIS. I won't give Kino any of my money for the nearly bare bones version they released.