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Buffy: Season 7 or... When will Fox stop spoiling the series?

Discussion in 'TV on DVD and Blu-ray' started by Matt Thompson, Nov 10, 2004.

  1. Paul_Scott

    Paul_Scott Lead Actor

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    19 down, 3 to go.

    boy you guys are jaded.
    i'm still enjoying the hell out of it.
    yeah, i can see where the seasons 'arc' goes into a bit of a holding pattern, but in place of forward motion we do get some really wonderful character based episodes-
    i've enjoyed all of 'em so far.
    and the 'holding pattern' is nothing new.
    people play up season 2, but that had some of the most annoying 'monster of the week/we'll get back to the arc next week' episodes i can remember.
    just when you want to see more development with Angel, etc, we get a completely disposable, formula episode about the boys swim team turning into lizard men.

    this isn't my favorite season, but i don't think its anywhere close to being as bad as some have made it out to be.
     
  2. Andreas_K

    Andreas_K Stunt Coordinator

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    I really liked season 7 (watched the whole show for the first time on DVD) - the finale was a really good conclusion to a wonderful series.
    I didn't like Kennedy either, she didn't seem to fit into the show and with the others too well and I would have preferred if her time was devoted to other characters.

    I love all the seasons of Buffy - it was as great as a blindbuy possibly can get. I discovered Joss Whedon through it and his shows are a now nice cornerstone of my (and any) TV-DVD collection. My order of the seasons is (from favorite to least favorite but still great): 3,2,6,5,7,4,1.
     
  3. Chip_HT

    Chip_HT Second Unit

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    On the one hand, I agree, but thinking about it, it did serve a purpose even without being followed up on. After all, it explained why the First was attacking then, instead of doing it during the previous seven years, or even before Buffy even came to Sunnydale.

    Still, the ball was dropped, and then came Storyteller and the episode before or after it, can't remember. I watched those two in a row and really got bored, something I usually don't do during Buffy.

    I just don't think season 7 as a whole was a fitting finale to the series. The end result of Chosen was okay, but suffered from the story of the 21 episodes that led up to it.

    Honestly, while watching season 7 along with Angel season 4, I swore that both events were connected up until Jasmine showed up. And maybe they should have been.
     
  4. Lance Nichols

    Lance Nichols Supporting Actor

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    It would have been nice seeing at least ONE of the apocalypse(s) that kept happening be tied together between the two shows.

    Now, I totaly understand that they were separate shows, but they were intimately connected (pardon the expresion), if distant. The writers all should have gotten together and hashed out a common story line that did not require you to HAVE to watch both series, but did tie together. ON the other hand, new viewers to one or the other may have been pulled over to the other show by making the final run of episodes of season 7/4 a fully crossed over and intertwined story. I just can't see HOW it could be done successfully, well not with out thinking long and hard about it.

    That being said, I would not have changed a thing with Angel, well maybe I would, but that is a different thread. [​IMG]
     
  5. Robert Ringwald

    Robert Ringwald Cinematographer

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    But season 2's monster of the week episodes had stories. The episodes of Buffy from season 7 almost ALL related to the story arc, but nothing happened in them. I'd rather watch Go Fish and I Only Have Eyes For You than a lot of the middle of season 7 any day.
     
  6. Paul_Scott

    Paul_Scott Lead Actor

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    "are we there yet? are we there yet?"
    "this vacation sucks"




    personally, i enjoyed the build-up, and just the opportunity to spend more time in company of characters i find completely charming.
    i enjoyed the journey so i was in no particular hurry to see it come to an end.
    in retrospect, thats pretty much the way i veiw the last season.
    the show could have ended with 6, and i would have felt it went out on a high note.
    but i got an extra season and it was like a leisurely desert.
    and the last ep really went a long way to rectifying the problem i had earlier with one of the characters.
     
  7. Robert Ringwald

    Robert Ringwald Cinematographer

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    Which is another problem I had with that season. There was too much time wasted on the potentials. I wouldn't have minded the shift... but then we also didn't get to know them either. I honestly didn't give a damn about any of them because we didn't get to see their development, except for Amanda and Kennedy.

    I would have liked more time to have been spent on Xander, Anya, Dawn, Willow, Giles... and less about whining about the impending Apocalypse. What happened to the great character episodes... "The Replacement" "Something Blue" "A New Man" "Selfless" the show used to be great at giving. They focused on a character we loved, and something they felt. Instead we got a single storyline for each character stretched over 22 episodes... with poor development. And some characters had no stories at all (Xander anyone?)

    Instead we got most of the focus on Buffy/Spike's relationship... that, while interesting, wasn't fuel for 22 episodes, and a bunch of girls we knew relatively nothing about... and couldn't care for.

    Episodes 1-7 of season 7 were amazing. They built up the story-arc, but also provided something for the characters to do in the meantime. That's how the show should have continued...

    Wasn't there something else for the cast to be doing instead of hanging out around Buffy's house? I thought she could barely afford to keep Dawn... let alone support 30+ people...
     
  8. Chip_HT

    Chip_HT Second Unit

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    Very simple. The Beast, and later Jasmine could have been made to be agents of the First, who is looking to take out the two biggest champions in that area of the world. Because, basically, the biggest threat to a world conquering evil in the Buffyverse is definitely the stretch between Sunnydale and LA.
     
  9. FrancisP

    FrancisP Screenwriter

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    I'm torn over purchasing season 7 at this time. The problem is that as a whole I thought season 7 was the worst season of the seven.

    On the other hand, I enjoyed the first 10 and thought these were among the best. Everybody had a storyline. Anya and Zander were still trying to deal with each other. Willow was
    dealing with her running amok. Buffy was training Dawn.

    The last 12 were bad. There were so many holes in the stories. For example, in "Potential" the attempt to explain away Dawn's not being a potential made no sense. The whole business in 'Conversations' with Buffy's mother telling Dawn that Buffy won't bbe there for her and be against her was never explained satisfactorily.`

    Also the Potentials were more comical. They also shoved the rest of the cast to cameos. Willow and Dawn got one episode each. Zander was filler and Anya nearly disappeared. It would be like bringing in a entire new crew in the last season of 'Star Trek'. Joss Whedon certainly was not very loyal to anyone in the cast except Buffy and Spike.
     
  10. Randy Gray

    Randy Gray Stunt Coordinator

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    I actually thought the preacher was a good character but I thought he should have been brought in earlier. There could have been some really great episodes with him. The season had great potential (pun very much intended) but it felt like the writers had the ending down with no idea how to get there. I thought it was a good ending but for the first time I actually rooted for the bad guys during the "hey tomorrow we fight so let's all have sex" episode. And by the way, with the ending they gave, doesn't that pretty much kill any hope for another vampire slayer series? I mean what's the point now? I'm only up to season 2 on Angel so maybe I'm wrong.

    Randy
     
  11. Will_B

    Will_B Producer

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    Another overlooked story element was what the floating eyeball told Giles. It doesn't seem like that info had any point.
     
  12. Andreas_K

    Andreas_K Stunt Coordinator

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    If memory serves me correctly the "Anya's former demon boss wants her dead" story which they featured in one episode never continued. That could have been an great Anya and even Xander storyline! Even though the character died in the end (so that arc is complete) I still would have liked to hear more on that situation.
     
  13. Eddy-C

    Eddy-C Supporting Actor

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    I was just rewatching Bring On The Night and Showtime on DVD and noticed you can hear parts of the battle music from "Chosen" during buffy's speeches in the final moments of each episode. I thought that was a nice touch.
     
  14. Will_B

    Will_B Producer

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    Andreas_K, I figure that with Anya's particular history, she could come back more easily than any of the other cast members. Just have D'Hoffran tell her that if she wants to be brought back to life, she has to be a vengence demon again. So she agrees, and takes vengence on D'hoffran on her own behalf. Problem solved, and Anya lives.
     
  15. Joseph J.D

    Joseph J.D Cinematographer

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    Just finished Season 7 and have to say that I loved it! I was going from disc to disc quite quickly just to see what happens next.

    Some thoughts.....

    1) The preacher was an excellent villain....like others have mentioned it would have been interesting to see more episodes with him in it.

    2) Why would Buffy reject the offer of extra power when most of the villains in Season 7 are so much stronger than her (Uber Vamp, The Preacher)? Hell, even some of the regular vamps were giving her trouble. If she is so intent on saving the world, it would have been prudent to take the power offered no matter what the cost. After all, she was willing to sacrifice some of the potentials in her battle so sacrificing some of her humanity shouldn't have been an issue for her.




    Point 3 has a spoiler for Angel Season 5. You have been warned.

    3) I felt saddened by Anya's death but then again, her being an ex-demon probably would make it easier for her to return to life at some point. Spike's ultimate sacrifice was also very well done.....I'm just scratching my head at how he returns in Angel. Looking forward to Angel Season 5 just to find out.





    4) Why are the UberVamps so much easier to kill in the final battle? Just one of them earlier in the season almost killed Buffy without breaking a sweat and yet we see the slayer force wiping the floor with them here? Regardless of the criticism, the battle still looked cool.

    5) I happen to like Kennedy..... [​IMG]

    All in all, a great Season......on to Angel Season 5 when it comes.[​IMG]
     
  16. Will_B

    Will_B Producer

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    Regarding point 2, I think she made that decision because the theme of the season was "men bad."

    Point 4 is addressed in the commentary track. Or, not so much addressed as apologized for.

    Point 5, yeah!
     
  17. Deb Walsh

    Deb Walsh Stunt Coordinator

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    On Point 2, I think this was another facet of Buffy becoming her own person, and yet another layer of Buffyverse as allegory. Slayers had always been disposable, from the first slayer right through Kendra, Faith and Buffy. Another one would always be available to take the place of the fallen slayer. What made Buffy so successful as a slayer was not her separation from humanity, but the fact that she embraced her humanity. Look at the early episodes where Giles is always trying to convince her to forego a real life in favor of training and slaying only. It takes a while, but Giles finally realizes that Buffy's strength is not solely her enhanced abilities as a slayer, but her ability to connect and be supported - accept support. It was inevitable that Buffy would be the slayer to realize that hoarding power wasn't the answer.
     
  18. Matt Stone

    Matt Stone Lead Actor

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    I think that you make some good points regarding Buffy's power (see Buffy's comments to Kendra in What's My Line)...but I don't think that addresses why she turned down power from the shadow men. Will's comment is a little sharp, but not too far from the mark. A big theme of Season 7 (and as a result, the whole series) is that the Watchers are weak men who are willing to use slayers to protect them until they're dead and used up. Buffy was unwilling to take them up on their offer because she had no respect for their methods. It was more of a "fuck you" than anything...and later she even mentioned partially regretting not taking the upgrade.

    This is a fine message, but I don't like the way it paints the Watchers Council in such a negative light. If there were people like Giles and Wesley (with his character development throughout Angel), there had to be some good characteristics of the council. They can't all be bad.

    Then again, Giles and Wes quit the council...so maybe they are all bad [​IMG]
     
  19. Andreas_K

    Andreas_K Stunt Coordinator

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    I think the watchers had female members as well.

    Remember season 5's episode "Checkpoint" where the council sent a delegation to check Buffy's skills - so they might give her information about Glory?
    There definetly were two women in that party (one was featured quite a bit in the episode) so unless they are secretaries or something they must have some influence in the organisation.

    Also in season 3's "Revelations" a woman named Gwendolyn comes to Sunnydale and says she is Faith's new watcher. Even though she had been kicked off the council a few years ago. Nobody had a problem with her being a watcher so they must exist.

    I agree with you though that the message about the council is that they are male dominated - but that's just an aspect of it. Other aspects are that they often are referred to as "old and british" people. That's more of a reason for dissent between Buffy, Faith and their watchers than the different sex. So it's more a conflict between generations than between sexes.
     
  20. Matt Stone

    Matt Stone Lead Actor

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    Maybe, but not in regards to the shadow men (ie, first Watchers). I know women Watchers exist, my point was mainly in regards to the creation of the council and the Slayer.
     

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