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Budget setup Fluance, JBL NSP1, Onk SKSHT510, or Acoustic Research HC6 (1 Viewer)

Lew Crippen

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I’ve not ever done an A/B comparison on the Acoustic Research/JBL speakers in question, so it is pretty interesting to read Phil’s comments. Thanks for that Phil. :emoji_thumbsup:

Now, going forward about 2 to 3-months after this audition, Sound & Vision verified what we all heard when they published the Objective Benchmarks (by Tom Nousaine) for the AR HC6,...
Interesting numbers indeed—are the NSP1 numbers also from Tom Nousine? I assume that they are, as the format is familiar.

One question about your comparison: ‘which sub did you use with the NSP1s, or did you opt out of the sub altogether?’ Whatever you answer, this is not a challenge to you methods, I’m just curious.

Is there a difference in price point right now as to this two configurations? Assuming the JBLs are lower (which I infer from your post) I am amazed that a package can come it at under $300 (with a sub) with those reported response numbers and also your review.

By itself, I’d not be disturbed at the response numbers of the HC6 package, simply due to the $300–$400 price, which is really quite modest.

Finally I agree with Brett as to room size and either speaker configuration—not a criticism of either JBL or Acoustic Research, as neither was designed to fill moderately sized rooms with a lot of sound.
 

DaveGTP

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Well, the room is like this ASCII art:

Edit: Never mind, couldn't pull off the picture with the board code.
I'd say about 8 ft from TV to couch (you can't quite sit comfortably with a an official PS2 controller, although you can hold it, the cord is a weee to short), about 10 ft total. So 20'x10', ceiling is about 8'. Not large, I would say (the house is about 1300-1400 square feet?, I'm a renter). I would measure if I was at home (I post here from work most of the time).

Edit: I'm not much of a sound guy, so the numbers aren't real intelligible to me- BUT, I am a computer/engineering student guy, I am ruled by logic most of the time :), so factual arguments can always sway me. I assume that the narrower range is more desirable?

Edit Again: To address Lew's question: B&H Photo (good etailer) has the NSP1s for $209 (but needs a subwoofer added to it, so the price point is about the same). BestBuy.com just marked the AR HC6 down to $299 (with woofer). The Fluance is $199, no woofer; Onkyo set can be had for about $180 with woofer, refurb direct from Onkyo.
 

Phil Iturralde

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I agree with Brett as to room size and either speaker configuration-not a criticism of either JBL or Acoustic Research, as neither was designed to fill moderately sized rooms with a lot of sound.
I had no problems playing the JBL NSP1's w/AudioSource SW15 200w 15" sub in my 20' x 30' HT/family room @ -10 dB below REF Level***!!!

Around June 2000, my brother was over and my wife was out somewhere, and my brother wanted to see what the 3-month old JBL NSP1's w/sub could do!!! So for the heck of it, I decided to dial up my usual -10 dB REF Level to -5 or -6 dB below REF Level and watched the beginning of "Tomorrow Never Dies" DVD, the INTRO up to the opening credits!!! And man, our initial impressions was WOW, can this little set put out!!! I monitored opening Terrorist Depot destruction explosive LFE scenes, ... created by Bond, ... James Bond, ... to 109 dB+ / Fast LFE SPL Peaks!!! The JBL NSP1's sounded extremely dynamic, clean, impressive and so we ended watching over half of the movie @ -6 dB below REF Level, and when my wife came home, ... I immediately lowered it down, ... until she left again!!! :)

NOTE: Turning up the volume where the observed Fast LFE SPL Peaks = 111 dB or so (or approx. -4 dB below REF Level), the JBL NSP1's started to sound hard and steely - I then backed it down to observed 109 dB SPL Peaks. Video Essential REF Calibrated: HT Speakers 75 dB / LFE = 80 dB (Today my JBL S26 [x6] / S-Center REF Calibrated via Dolby Labs DD EX Test Tones = 75 dB / LFE = 77 dB - lowest needle swing = 76 / highest = 78 dB)

So, .... since you can't modify, change or fool the laws-of-physics, I would still recommend to my family and friends if their budget was around $300 or so, to get the JBL NSP1's.

Over time the HT Setup sound actually improves and when coupled with a 'real' sub like the SVS 25-31PCi - like my brother did, ...

1) your real world frequency response in most HT rooms would be around 23 Hz to 18.9 kHz ±3.0 easily.

2) the dynamics is available to play your blockbuster DVD's easily @ -10 dB below REF Level*** w/o fear of distortion, compression, breakup or blowing a speaker driver!!!

*** -10 dB below REF Level: My usual Main HT Friday NITE DVD Levels - w/106 dB Fast LFE SPL Peaks for 2-1/2 years of use until the moved up to my vacation house. (RS Meter Dial = 100 / Weight = C / Speed = FAST) Using -10 dB below REF Level is loud enough to feel the LFE move the floor, couch, walls, air, pant legs (especially true w/SVS 25-31PCi) but still maintain an audible dialog level during the blockbuster DVD's quieter movie moments & scenes!

Phil
 

DaveGTP

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I think I've crossed the Onkyo SKSHT510 off the list. Ignoring the cnet review, I haven't heard enough positive comments about them. I ran some searches on the Fluance setup here and on avsforum (where I mainly just lurk). I could only find 1 person who wasn't happy with them.

Sorry Phil, you speak with very good reason (and some convincing numbers, I'm sure, if I understood them better :) ), but I have heard from 2 others that have personally auditioned the HC6s and the NSP1s and chose the HC6s. I will see if I can find a set of the HC6s at Best Buy B&M this weekend. Unless they fail to impress, I think it is coming down to the HC6s vs the Fluance.

I really want to chance the Fluance, but I find myself reluctant to take chancy speakers without being able to hear them...
 

JeremyFr

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Can I just interject one thing here about Phil's last post. What good does it do to speak of the LFE peaks on a subwoofer that does not even come with the speaker package hence if he was to buy the package with any sub of his choice yielding different results?? I can understand the point your making but most of the post revolved around the subwoofer and not really the nsp 1's.
 

Phil Iturralde

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However, that clarity was also the Achilles' heel of the HC6 system. The crisp, clear high end, upper vocal range, and substantial bass overshadowed an uneven, somewhat weak midrange and lower midrange. Voices tended to lack richness and authority. ...

Listening to just the front L/R satellites and the subwoofer confirmed my initial impression of the HC6 system's strengths and weaknesses. Overall, the music sounded satisfying, but voices -- male voices especially -- lacked the depth and warmth you would hear from larger, more expensive speakers. This may have resulted from a hole in the frequency coverage where the satellites speakers cross over to the subwoofer.
Rich Warren also noted that the satellites lacked magnetic shielding, maybe some HC6 owner can verify if that is still true!?! If you want to read the entire somewhat positive S&V AR HC6 speaker review, go to your library and look for the Sound & Vision FEB/MAR 2002 issue.

Have fun auditioning, :)
Phil
 

JustinG

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May 21, 2003
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Well, I'm a very happy fluance owner. I have the ES1s and absolutely love them. Have a friend that has the AV5s and the CC and he loves them too.

I took a chance. I got mine on Ebay for about $90 off the price you pay online. So it was well worth it.
 

DaveGTP

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If I could pick up the fluance for $90 under list (that would be about $110 + shipping), I think I would rapidly choose them. But, some perusing of Ebay shows that about the lowest I can do right now is about $170. I know the Sony WM40 sub is highly regarded - I saw the WM20 for $54 scratch-and-dent @ Crutchfield. I could toss this into my 90-days-same-as-cash deal with my TX-SR601 - I will fund the speakers now out of my bank account. Anybody familiar with the WM20? Is it just a smaller version of the WM40?
 

Ian-Fl

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When I started researching for an entry level sound system I started with the local retailers. I found the prices were too much for what you ended up getting.
The internet only speakers gave me the best value to performance ratio. The downside to this is you can never audition these speakers, so you must rely on forums like this to help you decide.
I went with the Fluance sx-htb because I like floor standing speakers and I liked the look of them.
Some people felt they were a "bright" speaker therefore a warm receiver like a Harman Kardon or Marantz would complement them.
I suggest you read alot and take your time because my final decision was nowhere near what I was first thinking about buying.
 

DaveGTP

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I have basically been gathering information since I started posting here about a year ago. I really settled on the H/K 325 + JB NSP1 originally (plus a couple of extra speakers for 7.1 and the aforementioned Sony WM40 sub). However, budget constraints (and a 6% contractor paycut at my place of work this year) have limited my choices. Further investigation came up with the option of the Onkyo set and the Fluance - and the HC6s that suddenly dropped in price. Almost everyone seems to be happy with the Fluances, and I am partial to bigger speakers (the W.A.F. for me is good, ie - my fiancee "bigger speakers are cool").

I find myself avoiding Fluance just because of insecurity of the brand, and I don't like that. A good product doesn't necessarily have to be a popular brand. 99% of Fluance owners say they rock, and I'm talking about forum people, not the Bose-duped J6Ps in the cnet reviews either. I think I am going to go with the Fluance AV-HTB $199 set + Sony WM20, unless someone else says something to change my mind. Ian's comments about the Fluance set were just like the last drop in the bucket to convince me. Too many people have given them the bargain speakers thumbs-up for me to turn them down.

To the fluance owners, which speaker would I have add to match the rear surrounds (for 6.1)? One of the AV-BP2s?
 

Ian-Fl

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Be very careful about a subwoofer Dave. I've read that the sony wm20 is too small and a waste of time. Mind you the people who write these things might be totally deaf!!!
I think in this case it's better to have more than less because if you should need more power from a small sub it will cause more distortion when you crank it up.
The front mains on my fluance speakers put out alot of bass so I feel I have the time to save up for a really good sub.
 

DaveGTP

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I guess that's kind of how I felt on it - if the sub doesn't do the job, I will ebay it off (my rating is about 90, 100%, I should be able to get decent $ for it). Or I can hawk it on the forum. But I am already over budget. The purchase of the Onkyo TX-SR601 and the WM20 went on my Sony Financial Services card w/Crutchfield (90 day same as cash). For $55 bucks, if the sub is not up to par, I can sell it to an apartment dweller or something for like $30. Who wouldn't buy a Sony sub (even a small one) for $30? :) I sent an email to fluance asking about another rear speaker like the other ones to add to the AV-HTB set; haven't ordered yet. I may also call and talk to customer service. I couldn't find any return policies if I don't like the speakers, so I also asked about that.
 

Rives Elmore

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Their return policy is that there is no return policy, if you do not like them, tough luck. I ordered the 5 speaker set for 199 as well, from what I have read...we should not have a problem (with wanting to return them)
 

DaveGTP

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I guess I could always Ebay them back off. They look like they get about $150-$170 on Ebay. Still waiting on an email answer on the rear satellite.
 

Ian-Fl

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Jul 13, 2003
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This reminds me of my kids touching the water with their toes to test the temperature. What does it achieve, they're going in the water anyway!
These speakers have exceded my expectations and everyone of my friends who have heard and seen them are impressed. If I ever save the money to upgrade my equipment I'll just sell it to my friends.
 

DaveGTP

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What did you guys use for speaker stands? The only stopper right now is that I'm not sure where to get some stands for the satellites. Honestly, I was almost considering the JBLs again. B&H photo has the JBLs for $209 shipped free, and the matching speaker stands for the N24IIs for $70 shipped free. That would be $279 with stands. The Fluance set is gonna run about $250 with shipping (I didn't think about the shipping - I guess I didn't really realize it would run $50, although, for the size, it does make sense). I would still have to find stands for the Fluance.
 

JustinG

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May 21, 2003
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DaveTP,

You've hit on a disadvantage of Fluance. Lack of flexibility. I don't think you can buy just one of the surrounds (either the same as in the HTIB or the BP2 Bipolars).

But, what you could do is buy the set of Bipolars (only come in a set) and use one of the surrounds you get in the HTIB for the 6th channel. Or buy the bipolars, and just use one of them.

But maybe you could talk Fluance into selling just one of the HTIB ones. Maybe they have some offers they don't show on the web.

BTW, the Fluance speakers need about 10 hours of break in. Their sound will change over that period.
 

Ian-Fl

Second Unit
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I made my brackets from 4 feet of cast iron piping. I covered the pipe with a shower curtain rod. It cost me $20 each.I'll email you some pictures.
The surrounds had two predrilled brass inner threads on the bottom of each.
 

DaveGTP

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Ok, here's the responses from Fluance: For the guarantee, they say there is a 7-day money-back guarantee (minus shipping costs). Since shipping would be about $100 coming and going, I'd be better off ebaying the speakers off. As for the additional rear channel, they suggest adding one of the AV-SC center channel speakers to use as the rear. Isn't that a little overkill? Would the sound still stay balanced ok? It seems like that would make the 6th center kind of overpowering.
 

JustinG

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May 21, 2003
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Not if you SPLd it right. You can turn the channel level down in the receiver to balance it.

I didn't even think about using the center channel. Actually, you see a lot of that now days. Instead of the matching surround, use the center for 6.1. Should make the channel fuller.
 

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