Brother Bear BAD VIDEO Compression?

Discussion in 'DVD' started by Mark Hammon, Apr 4, 2004.

  1. Mark Hammon

    Mark Hammon Stunt Coordinator

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    I've read quite a few reviews of this DVD and they all praise the video quality, some even stating it is reference quality.

    Am I watching the same DVD as everyone else?

    The picture quality is AWFUL! There is (what I've been told is called) compression artifacting all through out the movie. There are "bands" in the solid colors in almost every sequence . The sky swirls in these "bands". It is more evident during the opening 1.85:1 section vs the 2.35:1 but it is evident through out.

    I have adjusted color temperature, noise reduction, sharpness, contrast... everything that is adjustable to see if it is my equipment. I was able to reduce it if I brightened my picture which goes against true home theatre standards.

    Anyone have any comments on this?
     
  2. TedD

    TedD Supporting Actor

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    99% of the time this is related to the equipment and not the DVD.

    Let me guess:

    You have one or more of the following:

    A DLP, LCD, or other solid state TV or projector
    An older NVidia video card or a non ATI/Nvidia card
    Not calibrated your setup with AVIA or VE
    Are using S-Video rather than Component or RGB video

    The usual cause is the lack of adequate bandwith in the color decoding path, ie 8 bits vs 10 bits.

    Some title that have large areas of subtle color graduations can not be displayed properly with only 8 bits of data. Finding Nemo is another title that many have had banding with.

    Yet, playing either of these two titles on a CRT projector with RGB connection and either a current generation ATI Radeon or a current generation NVidia reveals that there is no banding inherent in either of these DVD's.

    Check this out:

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...+color+banding

    Ted
     
  3. Stephen_J_H

    Stephen_J_H All Things Film Junkie

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    I found no banding playing this on my DVD-ROM drive. I have an ATI Radeon 7500 video card outputting to a 17" Daytek Flatscreen CRT.
     
  4. PaulP

    PaulP Producer

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    Looked absolutely stunning to me...
     
  5. bob kaplan

    bob kaplan Supporting Actor

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    i have a mitsubichi 65" with a sony progressive scan...and notice the banding in the brown to red areas of the picture...especially the bear.
     
  6. Kelly Grannell

    Kelly Grannell Second Unit

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    My husband and I own an ISF calibrated 46" Sony CRT RPTV and a Yamaha DPX-1000 DLP FP on 80" screen (D65K right out of the box). We are running a Denon 910 for the Sony and Denon 5900 for the Yamaha.

    We see the unnatural colour gradation (banding) as well.
     
  7. Roger J

    Roger J Stunt Coordinator

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    The color banding is fairly evident on most setups and is well documented in the review thread on this forum. Of course there are variations in hardware that will manifest various artifacts with particualr software. In this case, however, the DVD of Brother Bear is very simply hugely over-compressed.

    As I noted in the discussion in the review thread, on the 2.35:1 version, the video portion is allocated only 2.8 GB of a dual layer disc. Less than a third of the disc capacity. This is just wrong, plain and simple.

    Instead of wasting an entire disc on a completely separate transfer of the film, the most logical and efficent approach should have been to put the 2.35:1 and the 1.66:1 versions on a single DVD-9 and using all available space for the movies. The second disc would carry the supplements. Unfortunately, this is Disney so we get a poorly thought-out and executed product.

    The sooner Eisner and those corporate lackies he installed these past years are pitched out on the street, the better off that corporation, and the fans of their work, will be.
     
  8. Mark Hammon

    Mark Hammon Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the replies.

    TedD - You guessed WAY WRONG! I have a Mitsubishi HD65" with a Sony Progressive scan. No other DVD I have played has had that bad of "banding" as I saw today on BROTHER BEAR. Not even "cheap-o's"!

    Bob Kaplan - and I appear to have the same set up. [​IMG] The sections you mentioned are exactly where I noticed it. It wasn't just me it was my kids too!

    Kelly - thanks!

    RogerJ - Over compressed is what I meant to say. I used compression artifacting, which is caused by TOO MUCH compression. I've seen VCDs that have looked like what I saw on BROTHER BEAR. The DTS was stunning, but I wondered if the picture was sacrificed for it. Apparently it was. It would be nice if Disney would recall and fix this, but I don't think that will happen.

    All the reviews I read were outside this forum. I have seen way to much praise for transfers (inside this forum) to trust them anymore. As with these so called "reference" reviews, I have lost any respect for them as well.
     
  9. Tom Tsai

    Tom Tsai Supporting Actor

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    I too see a lot of colour-banding on my setup as I mentioned in the other thread [​IMG]
     
  10. Ron Boster

    Ron Boster Screenwriter

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    I am glad I'm not the only one.....misery loves company.[​IMG]

    I recently added a pixel "multiplier" lens to my LCD projector, Cinema 13HD/Sanyo PLV-60 (ISF calibrated by Kevin Miller) I was worried that the lens was amping up any disc problems. (For Ted)...I using a HTPC (Movi M2000) with a ATI Radeon 7500 video card connected through an extron high bandwidth VGA switcher. The cable is Bettercables Silver serpent VGA cable. The screen is 106" HighContrast Da-Mat from Da-lite. All equipment runs through a PS Audio P1000 power regenerator.

    After we were done watching the movie, I plopped in Toy Story 2 and didn't see any banding. I watched several other DVD's and didn't see a problem there either.

    There is definetly a problem with this disc. I'm glad to hear from others on this issue.

    Ron

    PS: Is it just me or does it drive you crazy to have to watch a movie like this all the way through to verify that it's a disc or equipment problem? You can't turn off the movie in the middle and start to run tests, when you are with your family. [​IMG]
     
  11. Sean*O

    Sean*O Second Unit

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    Extremely over compressed. I noticed how little space the film took up (in Gigabytes) and I could not believe it.

    There is banding on nearly everything, there is also some pretty serious bleeding/smearing of the colors (verified on more than one set-up). Added to which the color range that is there is extremely limited.

    This movie should have looked great. It could have if it were on a dual layer DVD and used about 7 Gigs. Instead, we got an extremely dull looking disc.

    Disney should have charged half price for this DVD for the half-a** job they did on it, and for using double the compression that they should have. [​IMG]
     
  12. Marc_E

    Marc_E Supporting Actor

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    This DVD is awful (and I didn't like the movie either too heavy for my kids). I have never seen anything look this bad on my setup:
    Denon DVD-5900 DVI 720p output
    Dwin TV3 DLP PJ to 103" Vutec Brightwhite screen.
    It is crap IMO
     
  13. Lyle_JP

    Lyle_JP Screenwriter

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    My TV is perfectly calibrated with Avia, and I am using a Denon DVD-5900 (hardly a cheapo player) and the banding is [rant]atrocious!!![/rant] Apparently, the film takes up less than 3 GB on the disc. Hey, I'm all for extras, but this is too high a price to pay. Disney should be ashamed.

    -Lyle J.P.
     
  14. Chris

    Chris Lead Actor

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    ISF calibrated Sony KP57WV700, using a Panasonic F85 player.. ugh. Yeah, I notice color banding as well. This is one of the very few discs I see that with.
     
  15. Ron Boster

    Ron Boster Screenwriter

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    Even though Ted came across as a little arrogant in his response to the original original poster...take a look at his web page....

    actual projectors (for someone who owned a 8mm and Super 8 as a kid-it's very cool to see) and quite a complete sound/speaker set up....replicating the speaker placement in a theater. Fun set-up to go through. One can assume Ted captured the bug from his Father, a professional projectionist. Ted, I enjoyed your website.

    Ron
     
  16. Michael St. Clair

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    The bitrate is extremely low...they squeezed the whole film onto about 3GB of disc space...this is the trend with Disney, most of their two-disc sets the last three years should have been three-disc sets, but they just squeeze the hell out of it. Animated films need more space than that. It is bizarre that their older, less popular films like 'Black Cauldron' are given twice the disc space.

    FYI, I have a 53" analog HD/480p rear projection set that has been ISF calibrated, and a Yamaha DVD-S2300 player that uses a Panasonic chipset that does not have the chroma error.

    This disc is crap. As is BatB. 'Finding Nemo' and 'Monsters Inc'. could have been better.
     
  17. Malcolm R

    Malcolm R Executive Producer

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    How is this possible? It says "THX Certified" right on the cover?


    [​IMG]
     
  18. Marc_E

    Marc_E Supporting Actor

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    Because THX does not mean what it used to in the days of LDs. Have you seen the original Highlander? It is crap too and it is THX cert.
    Marc
     
  19. Michael St. Clair

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    Note Malcom's smiley. [​IMG]
     
  20. Joe Schwartz

    Joe Schwartz Second Unit

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    THX has certified that this DVD contains only 0's and 1's. Their quality control procedures have carefully eliminated any erroneous 2's, 3's, and 4's. [​IMG]
     

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