Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last! (1 Viewer)

[OliverK]

Wait a minute
Can you tell us from where you got it ?
And can you post a screen capture preferably of the scene I posted ?
This is pretty exciting...

 

[ptb2007]

Citizen Kane Academy frame black and white, directed by the wonder boy who had his hand into everything. Not a great example.
I would also suggest that maybe he didn't want to stay in Italy a further 4 months after shooting ended, or that Warners didn't want the extra expense that would incur paying expenses to director and editing team.
Helen looks great agreed, and LOTP on my system is overall only darker in comparison to Helen.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

I got it from the studio, just like every other DVD reviewer - see the link in my sig?

No, I don't have any screen caps - I have cheap DVD software on the computer...

 

[OliverK]

Oops, I do not usually read sigs but in this case I should have

As I ordered from DVD Pacific I just hope that maybe my disc will ship by tomorrow with this week's HDM releases, we'll see.

 

[Brian Sharp]

Review of "El Cid" is up on DVD Savant

DVD Savant Review: El Cid (Limited Collector's Edition)

With 5.1 sound: just waiting for my copy to come!

 

[Simon Howson]

Try VLC Media Player (free):
VLC media player - Overview

To make a screen capture you just go Video, Snapshot. Then crop out the letterboxing and you're done.

 

[ptb2007]

The review says it is 2.35:1 rather than a 70mm format, but it does give us a date for Fall - April 20th. How reliable is DVD Savant? Some earlier posts don't seem to think much of the author. Any neutral comments?

 

[Simon Howson]

He seems to be very forgiving with the technical aspects of DVDs, giving some positive reviews of discs where others have found serious fault.

Regarding the aspect ratio, if this DVD was made from a Technirama element, then 2.25:1 would be the ideal ratio. If it was made from a 4 perf 35mm anamorphic element, then 2.35:1 makes sense.

My understanding is that the VistaVision large aperture has an aspect ratio of 1.5:1, multiply this by the 1.5 X factor of the anamorphic lens makes 2.25:1. However this was cropped very slightly at the sides to convert the footage to the 2.21:1 aperture of 5 perf, 70mm prints.

 

[OliverK]

I like DVDSavant for what he writes about things that are not related to video and sound quality as it sure is fun to read. No need to read his video and audio quality assessments of the DVD as even by the way he presents his findings we can see that first and foremost he likes movies and does not loose sleep over a mediocre or lesser transfer.

Regarding the April date for Fall it is what other sites have been reporting, too so I would think it is accurate.

Regarding the 2.35 AR: From what info I could gather 35mm low contrast elements were the source of the HD master for El Cid. So 2.35 is the aspect ratio to expect for both the SD and HD version. As doing a new master from the horizontal 35mm elements of El Cid already was deemed to be too expensive there is a very high probability that the less popular Fall will not see a release in its original aspect ratio either - going back to the OCN would cost hundreds of thousands for Fall.

 

[Douglas R]

Just received my copy of EL CID. The transfer is far superior to all previous DVD versions from Europe and elsewhere. The picture has been cleaned up well and looks very clear with scarcely a sign of any blemishes. The DD 5.1 sound is particularly good, especially as regards the music track (although don’t expect to hear much, if anything, in the surrounds – it was never that sort of film). Nevertheless the picture is not perfect – it seems to me that the colors lacked vibrancy but it’s probably the best that could be done in the absence (I assume) of the original negative.

Unlike the DVDs from Europe etc this is the first complete road show version with Overture, Intermission, Entr’acte and Exit music. I haven’t gone through all the extras yet but they seem to be very good and Weinstein have done an excellent job in giving the DVD special treatment. I was surprised to find that the souvenir programme reproduction contains 40 pages because the British version, which I have, contained only 16 pages. It’s printed on high quality paper as is the Dell comic book reproduction, and both are larger than the similar programme reproductions which Warner Bros and Fox have issued, making for good collectable items.

Where Weinstein have slipped up is in their placement of the Entr’acte which they have put at the end of the first disc, immediately following the end of Act 1. The Entr’acte music for road show presentations always came immediately prior to the start of Part 2 of the film and the Ent’acte should, of course, have been placed at the beginning the second discs. Fox did exactly the same thing with CLEOPATRA to the annoyance of many collectors. I’m sure this error stems from people who work on these DVDs never having seen these road show attractions and therefore not understanding how they were presented. Neither, of course, should there be title cards with the words Overture, Intermission or Exit Music as is the case here.

The editing of this film towards the end of Part 1 has always puzzled me. El Cid is leading his army to the convent where he is to take his leave of Chimene. There are four scenes as follows.

1. At the 1.55.22 mark there is a long shot of Charlton Heston beginning to dismount from his horse.

2. At 1.55.15 there is a medium shot of Charlton Heston still ON his horse with his army moving across the screen from left to right.

3. At 1.55.22 there is a shot of the army moving from right to left (in other words looking as if they are going in the opposite direction to the previous scene.

4. At 1.55.31 there is a medium shot of Charlton Heston dismounting from his horse.

Now it seems fairly obvious to me that scene 4 should immediately have followed scene 1 and that scene 2 and 3 were inserted into the final print in error. But I don’t understand how this could have been missed in such a major film. Has anyone got any ideas or have I somehow completed misread those scenes?

 

[Mark Anthony]

As El Cid underwent film restoration around 15 years ago, there were no doubt some good quality 35mm reduction prints created at that time that could well have been used as the basis for this transfer and further digital restoration.

As Warner's have proved over the last few years a good quality 35mm reduction print can still yield superb results from original 8 perf or 65mm materials. In fact as 35mm telecine appears to be better in some areas and is more common, it can be superior.

As "Fall...", hasn't had a film restoration or re-release, there are no good quality 35mm or 70mm prints of recent vintage, the film probably hasn't been printed full stop in 20-30 years. Therefore the only suitable materials would be OCN or interpositives etc created at the time of release or shortly after, unless Miramax have found an archive/collector with a pristine 30-40 yr old 35mm print, which is unlikely.

Time will tell...

M

 

[Stephen PI]

I hope this information is false as this was the reason I disliked the laserdisc. Miramax went the cheap route and the results had ugly, muddy and contrasty color. I was hoping that in 2008 Weinstein would have wisely invested in a brand new 35mm interpositive from Technirama originated elements. It is not possible for any low con element to yield a satisfactory HD master like an IP can. Sorry, but I'll pass on this.

 

[Stephen PI]

Fortunately, Criterion wisely accessed a copy of the four-track original stereo mix for the 5.1 track which has been re-used for this new release. Who knows how the four-track would have played today, if at all.
The original surround track mostly consisted of trumpet fanfares etc. For the 5.1 mix, additional effects were added such as thunder.

 

[OliverK]

Two words: Too expensive.

Weinstein does not own these movies and no other big studio does for that matter. How many large format movies which are very expensive to work on do you know that

A do not belong to a big studio AND
B had a major restoration and / or Hi-Rez master done starting from the OCN ?

I would be surprised if you could name one.

So unless the complete rights to these movies are bought by Warner or Fox or another major studio willing to spend hundreds of thousands in preserving them I do not see anybody going back to the OCN for the 4 Bronston movies that are for now with Weinstein, at least in the US.

As it is an HD master for El Cid is more than I would have thought to be possible but going back to the OCN is something I cannot see happening with the current owner situation.

 

[Stephen PI]

Out of the four Bronston releases issued on laserdisc, except for El-Cid, Empire, Peking, and Circus all looked like they came from IP's and looked great. El-Cid was the only title of the four released by Miramax. If the elements for the other three were new and were I.P's who paid the bill?

 

[OliverK]

There is a Digibeta master that was created from some kind of separates or Technicolor elements and I hope they won't use it but on the other hand I don't know what else they could use.
Fall is IMO among the most stuning looking epics of them all and it deserves better than the color fringing that plagues all its current releases.

 

[Mark Anthony]

I'm aware of what equipment is available, it just seem's for whatever reason that the studio's haven't used it to date, for example the new 65mm transfer of ben-hur is less-sharp than the 35mm of a few years before as it used an older 65mm telecine machine.

 

[Stephen PI]

I don't know the exact history of the so-called 'restoration', but a low-con was used for the telecine session and that is why the transfer turned out that way.

 

[RolandL]

What was used for the transfer of Mutiny on the Bounty, The Greatest Story Ever Told and Battle of the Bulge? They were filmed in Ultra Panavision and have a 2.76:1 aspect ratio on DVD.

 

[Mark Anthony]

As far as i'm aware both MoB & BoB were transferred from brand new 35mm interpositives, specially created from 65mm materials, to ensure optimal image quality and full aspect ratio. WB has done this on most of there recent 65mm film's released on dvd including Grand Prix and possibly 2001 too.

GSET was transferred from 65mm a few years ago using the older type of 65mm telecine I mentioned above.

To the best of my knowledge the only 65mm transfer to date to use the newer 65mm telecines (that are of equal quality to the average hi-def 35mm equivalent) is the special effects portions of blade runner, that were scanned in at 8K then downconverted to produce the new 35mm final cut negative.

Oliver K hasn't stated his source so we have only his word that EL Cid is from a 35mm low-con, which may or may not be accurate. If it is true it's likely exactly the same print that Criterion used, but this time transferred in hi-def with additional digital clean-up and colour-correction.

M