Bowers CM5 or Klipsch? Other? Size of Rec room> (1 Viewer)

[JohnRice]

I'd love to hear those ELAC Adantés they're discussing in that first video. If I had to replace my Thiels, those would probably be the first speaker I Listened to.

 

[Jcj02]

Lol my head hurts

 

[Jcj02]

I would try and stay away from mixing brands of speakers with the exception of the subwoofer. You want to stick with the same brand and line if you can but mixing brands can lead to a mixing of the voice from speaker to speaker which would be the timber of the speaker. Like someone else mentioned definitely do not mix speakers across the front channels. No problem with your receiver and Denon makes nice receivers so I would match your power to what ever speakers you get since you have already locked down your receiver. B&W and Klipsch are both good for home theater and plenty of people use both but they are different animals as Klipsch uses horn tweeters and B&W does not. That being said and because the actual sound from both differ I would make sure you also look into SVS and especially ELAC by Andrew Jones who is a well known speaker designer and the ELAC's are well designed and are not real expensive a great bargain for what your getting. If you live to far from retailers try to listen to as much as possible and make up reading as much as possible. Try to stay away from consumer reviews and take them with a grain of salt like reviews from Walmart and Best Buy or even Crutchfield. Have you listened to Klipsch speakers before? The highs can be on the bright side compared to other speakers as can horn tweeters be in general. Also after running Audyssey go back in and set your speakers to small! Unless you have large bass drivers that can handle deep bass on your left and right IMHO set them to small.

As far as your tv I would suggest making sure it does both HDR & Dolby Vision and make sure your 4K blu-ray player is compatible as well. I have a Samsung which is not that bad and has worked out well. But I would look at the Sony and Panasonic player but the Oppo is the best but just be warned that Oppo is shutting down if they have not stopped production already. Oppo is also alot more expensive than everything else but this is why I would stick with checking out the Sony or Panasonic player.

I would at minimum if you want good solid sub in your home theater I would go with at least a 12" sub maybe a 15" sub. I wouldn't go below a 12 and after living with the subwoofer for at least 6 months and after hearing a decent amount of content with good low frequency content reevaluate if the one subwoofer is enough and consider at that point if you need to add a second as that can make a big difference and a better performance in your room. If your receiver doesn't have dual rca outputs for two subs don't worry you can get a rca splitter to hook up dual subs later. Keep in mind to take any of these videos with a grain of salt. And one thing never take the audio presentation as a representation of what the speakers sound like because it will never sound like the way it did in the room where the video was shot. At the end of the day you are hearing your speakers not the speakers on the other end!

Just wondering if your a critical listener like I am? If yes then your choice in speakers will be critical!

















I hope this helps you achieve your goals! I like big full sound and it is my opinion that to get that kind of room filling sound nothing beats larger speakers! You do not need them as big as I have them but I also have another reason for hanging onto my speakers and that is they belonged to my father and the sound is incredible.

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Hopefully in the near future these Altec A-7's will get a high gloss black lacquer finish or back to the original grey. If I end up moving and can not keep these then I will be looking at B&W, Klipsch, SVS or another tower speaker. But unless I change my mind about the center channel I have I will most likely stick with moving to all B&W's. My other choice is to pair Klipsch to the Altecs or just flat out change everything to Klipsch or something else.

Thank you very much for the information

Ok here’s where I am
I have listened to a LOT over last few days.
I had liked the DefTech 9040/9060’s very well
However I had them shut down the sub and the atmos module to make it more fair

End result I was with the B&W 683 S2’s
Centered with the larger version center HTM71 S2
This coupled with 1 SVS PB-4000 and KEF-q (may return if they don’t sound right in my room) atmos speakers

Now my dilemma
Someone brought up another curve ball to me.

DIYsoundgroup page where I should build my rear towers
So I’m thinking I want to order 2 towers for rears, build them and see what they are like. If I love them I can undo my hold purchase of the b&w’s or if they are in by then just return.
Any thoughts here on the diys of this groups page.
Either way I have to say very impressed with the B&W setup and can’t wait to see it set up and with the svs!
Still jumble brained sorry

 

[JohnRice]

I don't know why you want to complicate things by using DIY for the surround. BTW, in a 5.1 setup, which it sounds like you are doing, the surrounds go on the sides, not the rear. Common misunderstanding. If you like the B&Ws, just get B&Ws all the way around, using bookshelf models for surround. Plus, surrounds really should be higher than floor standing speakers. I know people use floor speakers for surround, but it's not what I'd recommend.

 

[Dave Moritz]

Doing DIY speakers is not an easy task and getting the performance out of them is even trickier so I have to agree just stick with the B&W's and IMHO you will be happier in the long run and most likely even in the short term as well. Also I would run the surround speakers for the back. The only reason for running towers around the back is for surround music formats like DVD-A or some SACD's. Otherwise I wouldn't run towers in the back as surrounds do not require large towers to be used. The B&W's with an SVS sub should sound really good!

 

[Jcj02]

I don't know why you want to complicate things by using DIY for the surround. BTW, in a 5.1 setup, which it sounds like you are doing, the surrounds go on the sides, not the rear. Common misunderstanding. If you like the B&Ws, just get B&Ws all the way around, using bookshelf models for surround. Plus, surrounds really should be higher than floor standing speakers. I know people use floor speakers for surround, but it's not what I'd recommend.

It’s not complicating the situation it’s just seeing all options, as many say great things of diy towers. And we are comparing $6000 vs $3200. I’d much rather put the guys at my office and myself to work to save the $2-3,000 to spend on other aspects of my theater or the entire house. Btw, my end result is a 7 or 9 channel setup. I’m just buying pieces I like as I find and like them.

Either way, it was just a way to build a speaker and see what my actual feelings of their quality is, to my ears. And at $5/600 it’s well worth the task. If ends up not being up to par, I just have another speaker to add to the bedroom so it would be used either way. Anyhow just asking around. I’ll update my space size else where and get opinions on layout.

 

[Jcj02]

Doing DIY speakers is not an easy task and getting the performance out of them is even trickier so I have to agree just stick with the B&W's and IMHO you will be happier in the long run and most likely even in the short term as well. Also I would run the surround speakers for the back. The only reason for running towers around the back is for surround music formats like DVD-A or some SACD's. Otherwise I wouldn't run towers in the back as surrounds do not require large towers to be used. The B&W's with an SVS sub should sound really good!

Ahhh
Understood. Ok I will check out the bookshelves on pedestal mounts next time in. I do understand the non-tower surround concept and the lack of true power needed for that task. I’ll keep you guys posted

 

[Jcj02]

New thread or should I post my elementary drawings here with layout and position questions to see if I’m thinking correctly?

 

[JohnRice]

Your room really isn't that big. You want power and capable speakers, but I wouldn't bother with floor standing speakers outside the L&R. My big HT is 20x25x8, so not a tremendous difference from yours. My personal recommendation would be to consider external amps, at least for your front three channels, or full separates (preamp/amp combination) instead of a receiver. The alternative is to use a receiver with preamp outputs, and an external amp for the front three channels, and let the receiver power everything else. I think you should aim for a 7.1.4 Atmos/DTS:X setup. Don't get suckered into using two lesser subs instead of spending the same $ on a single, better sub. A single $1500 sub will always out perform two $750 subs.

FWIW, I use separates, aka a preamp and three power amps in my system, which is currently 7.1.2, headed for 7.1.4

 

[Jcj02]

Your room really isn't that big. You want power and capable speakers, but I wouldn't bother with floor standing speakers outside the L&R. My big HT is 20x25x8, so not a tremendous difference from yours. My personal recommendation would be to consider external amps, at least for your front three channels, or full separates (preamp/amp combination) instead of a receiver. The alternative is to use a receiver with preamp outputs, and an external amp for the front three channels, and let the receiver power everything else. I think you should aim for a 7.1.4 Atmos/DTS:X setup. Don't get suckered into using two lesser subs instead of spending the same $ on a single, better sub. A single $1500 sub will always out perform two $750 subs.

FWIW, I use separates, aka a preamp and three power amps in my system, which is currently 7.1.2, headed for 7.1.4

Yeh I already got the sub, svs pb4000
I just said that about rear towers as I’m only looking for quality and crisp sound. “Loudness” is irrelevant for me. They will all basically be loud enough for me.

The main focus for me is capturing all of the movement I can. Hence the 4 Dolby Atmos should 2 not cut it or just to see if 4 makes a large enough difference. Again, reason for the diy is to see if my ears hear a better more clear sound all the while saving a bundle. Yeh I remeasired today, first time was a guess but it’s just around that being 23x23 1/2x 10

As far as a separate amp
I asked that exact question today. Amazing all the answers you get in the audio world
Hifi store said not to add amp to my B&W front 3, because I asked hey why would I add one to up it some as the output of my avr is only just close to half that the speakers can handle.
That’s why I’m happy I’m able to add as I go and try as I like.

 

[JohnRice]

That SVS should be a good choice.

Which B&W speakers are you considering the most?

As far as an amp, you'll probably need to add one if you want to go 7.1.4, since virtually no receiver has 11 channels of amplification, so it just makes sense to me to add a powerful one for the front three channels. That takes a lot of strain off the receiver and gives you maximum kick where it's needed the most. Take a look at the Emotiva XPA-3 when the time comes. One warning, it's a big sucker.

I get a lot of argument over external amps, almost always from people who have never used them, but your speakers will determine how important that is. With Klipsch, it's not needed. With most better speakers, it is a benefit. The fact is, you virtually can't have too much power, but you can have too little. I'm also definitely a "believer", that amps do sound different.

Finally, the size of speakers has nothing to do with how "crisp" the sound is. Large speakers just don't make a lot of sense for surrounds, and they're mainly a negative, because surrounds should be at least at ear height, and preferably a little above.

 

[Jcj02]

That SVS should be a good choice.

Which B&W speakers are you considering the most?

As far as an amp, you'll probably need to add one if you want to go 7.1.4, since virtually no receiver has 11 channels of amplification, so it just makes sense to me to add a powerful one for the front three channels. That takes a lot of strain off the receiver and gives you maximum kick where it's needed the most. Take a look at the Emotiva XPA-3 when the time comes. One warning, it's a big sucker.

I get a lot of argument over external amps, almost always from people who have never used them, but your speakers will determine how important that is. With Klipsch, it's not needed. With most better speakers, it is a benefit. The fact is, you virtually can't have too much power, but you can have too little. I'm also definitely a "believer", that amps do sound different.

Finally, the size of speakers has nothing to do with how "crisp" the sound is. Large speakers just don't make a lot of sense for surrounds, and they're mainly a negative, because surrounds should be at least at ear height, and preferably a little above.

Yeh definitely never said size meant that
I was just saying I am not concerned with “loudness” or size. And explaining my wants as far as high highs and clear etc.

As far as the b&w’s
I like the 683’s. The 704’s sound great too however hooked up to my receiver I didn’t see the price difference. Actually this is where my question of the pre amp came in.

I felt the 683’s had as good of sound. The difference as usual was when they switched over to the 704’s the clarity was about same just little louder I guess due to the sensitivity. Well....adding a pre amp wouldn’t just boost the 683’s up to that range I asked. And being $1,000 difference In price, that pre amp would benefit my center as well correct? This is where he told me no. Anyhow
Short answer is, the 683’s are what is coming. I’ll probably go ahead and get the matching 600 series bookshelves on pedestal mounts. And to remind ya, I actually went up to the 700 upper series center with htm71

 

[JohnRice]

Hearing the difference in speakers can be interesting. With better speakers the difference might not be what you're listening for. Imaging can be the main factor, or the image the speakers create, how much they disappear and stop sounding like two speakers. Getting that in a demo is difficult, plus it's less important with surround than with two channel music. In the end, the 683s are probably a better use of $. You also tend to need better electronics elsewhere to bring out the difference in better speakers. It gets expensive.

Regarding a preamp... I'm going to roll back what I said. That approach is really a pretty serious enthusiast thing. I would just make certain any receiver you get has preamp outputs, and if/when you get to 7.1.4, you can use an external amp for the front three channels. The main idea behind separates is that you can get better and/or more powerful amps, and keep them through multiple preamps, rather than buying everything over and over again, so it can also actually save money in the long run. I upgraded my preamp earlier this year. I noticed the new model was only a very minor update from the previous one, and I was able to get the previous model on closeout for less than half price. I've had my other amps for several years, and generally got them at a pretty good deal as well. All three amps cost me (several years ago) a total of less than $2000, and I can use them for another 20 years. The preamp I got on closeout was $1050, normally $2200. If you spent $4000 on a receiver, it still wouldn't hold a candle to what I have now. So you can see how it can be a big savings in the long run, while allowing you to have really good equipment. Most people just don't seem to want to plan ahead or go to the trouble, even though it's not that much trouble.