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Bowers CM5 or Klipsch? Other? Size of Rec room>

Discussion in 'Beginners, General Questions' started by Jcj02, Jun 21, 2018.

?

Which speakers to start off?

  1. B&W CM5 S2

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  2. Klipsch 280fa

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  3. Other

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  4. Definitive Tech bp9040st

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  1. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    I'd love to hear those ELAC Adantés they're discussing in that first video. If I had to replace my Thiels, those would probably be the first speaker I Listened to.
     
  2. Jcj02

    Jcj02 Extra

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    Lol my head hurts
     
  3. Jcj02

    Jcj02 Extra

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    Thank you very much for the information

    Ok here’s where I am
    I have listened to a LOT over last few days.
    I had liked the DefTech 9040/9060’s very well
    However I had them shut down the sub and the atmos module to make it more fair

    End result I was with the B&W 683 S2’s
    Centered with the larger version center HTM71 S2
    This coupled with 1 SVS PB-4000 and KEF-q (may return if they don’t sound right in my room) atmos speakers

    Now my dilemma
    Someone brought up another curve ball to me.

    DIYsoundgroup page where I should build my rear towers
    So I’m thinking I want to order 2 towers for rears, build them and see what they are like. If I love them I can undo my hold purchase of the b&w’s or if they are in by then just return.
    Any thoughts here on the diys of this groups page.
    Either way I have to say very impressed with the B&W setup and can’t wait to see it set up and with the svs!
    Still jumble brained sorry
     
  4. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    I don't know why you want to complicate things by using DIY for the surround. BTW, in a 5.1 setup, which it sounds like you are doing, the surrounds go on the sides, not the rear. Common misunderstanding. If you like the B&Ws, just get B&Ws all the way around, using bookshelf models for surround. Plus, surrounds really should be higher than floor standing speakers. I know people use floor speakers for surround, but it's not what I'd recommend.
     
  5. Dave Moritz

    Dave Moritz Lead Actor
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    Doing DIY speakers is not an easy task and getting the performance out of them is even trickier so I have to agree just stick with the B&W's and IMHO you will be happier in the long run and most likely even in the short term as well. Also I would run the surround speakers for the back. The only reason for running towers around the back is for surround music formats like DVD-A or some SACD's. Otherwise I wouldn't run towers in the back as surrounds do not require large towers to be used. The B&W's with an SVS sub should sound really good!
     
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  6. Jcj02

    Jcj02 Extra

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    It’s not complicating the situation it’s just seeing all options, as many say great things of diy towers. And we are comparing $6000 vs $3200. I’d much rather put the guys at my office and myself to work to save the $2-3,000 to spend on other aspects of my theater or the entire house. Btw, my end result is a 7 or 9 channel setup. I’m just buying pieces I like as I find and like them.

    Either way, it was just a way to build a speaker and see what my actual feelings of their quality is, to my ears. And at $5/600 it’s well worth the task. If ends up not being up to par, I just have another speaker to add to the bedroom so it would be used either way. Anyhow just asking around. I’ll update my space size else where and get opinions on layout.
     
  7. Jcj02

    Jcj02 Extra

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    Ahhh
    Understood. Ok I will check out the bookshelves on pedestal mounts next time in. I do understand the non-tower surround concept and the lack of true power needed for that task. I’ll keep you guys posted
     
  8. Jcj02

    Jcj02 Extra

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    New thread or should I post my elementary drawings here with layout and position questions to see if I’m thinking correctly?
     
  9. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    Your room really isn't that big. You want power and capable speakers, but I wouldn't bother with floor standing speakers outside the L&R. My big HT is 20x25x8, so not a tremendous difference from yours. My personal recommendation would be to consider external amps, at least for your front three channels, or full separates (preamp/amp combination) instead of a receiver. The alternative is to use a receiver with preamp outputs, and an external amp for the front three channels, and let the receiver power everything else. I think you should aim for a 7.1.4 Atmos/DTS:X setup. Don't get suckered into using two lesser subs instead of spending the same $ on a single, better sub. A single $1500 sub will always out perform two $750 subs.

    FWIW, I use separates, aka a preamp and three power amps in my system, which is currently 7.1.2, headed for 7.1.4
     
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  10. Jcj02

    Jcj02 Extra

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    Yeh I already got the sub, svs pb4000
    I just said that about rear towers as I’m only looking for quality and crisp sound. “Loudness” is irrelevant for me. They will all basically be loud enough for me.

    The main focus for me is capturing all of the movement I can. Hence the 4 Dolby Atmos should 2 not cut it or just to see if 4 makes a large enough difference. Again, reason for the diy is to see if my ears hear a better more clear sound all the while saving a bundle. Yeh I remeasired today, first time was a guess but it’s just around that being 23x23 1/2x 10

    As far as a separate amp
    I asked that exact question today. Amazing all the answers you get in the audio world
    Hifi store said not to add amp to my B&W front 3, because I asked hey why would I add one to up it some as the output of my avr is only just close to half that the speakers can handle.
    That’s why I’m happy I’m able to add as I go and try as I like.
     
  11. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    That SVS should be a good choice.

    Which B&W speakers are you considering the most?

    As far as an amp, you'll probably need to add one if you want to go 7.1.4, since virtually no receiver has 11 channels of amplification, so it just makes sense to me to add a powerful one for the front three channels. That takes a lot of strain off the receiver and gives you maximum kick where it's needed the most. Take a look at the Emotiva XPA-3 when the time comes. One warning, it's a big sucker.

    I get a lot of argument over external amps, almost always from people who have never used them, but your speakers will determine how important that is. With Klipsch, it's not needed. With most better speakers, it is a benefit. The fact is, you virtually can't have too much power, but you can have too little. I'm also definitely a "believer", that amps do sound different.

    Finally, the size of speakers has nothing to do with how "crisp" the sound is. Large speakers just don't make a lot of sense for surrounds, and they're mainly a negative, because surrounds should be at least at ear height, and preferably a little above.
     
  12. Jcj02

    Jcj02 Extra

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    Yeh definitely never said size meant that
    I was just saying I am not concerned with “loudness” or size. And explaining my wants as far as high highs and clear etc.

    As far as the b&w’s
    I like the 683’s. The 704’s sound great too however hooked up to my receiver I didn’t see the price difference. Actually this is where my question of the pre amp came in.

    I felt the 683’s had as good of sound. The difference as usual was when they switched over to the 704’s the clarity was about same just little louder I guess due to the sensitivity. Well....adding a pre amp wouldn’t just boost the 683’s up to that range I asked. And being $1,000 difference In price, that pre amp would benefit my center as well correct? This is where he told me no. Anyhow
    Short answer is, the 683’s are what is coming. I’ll probably go ahead and get the matching 600 series bookshelves on pedestal mounts. And to remind ya, I actually went up to the 700 upper series center with htm71
     
  13. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    Hearing the difference in speakers can be interesting. With better speakers the difference might not be what you're listening for. Imaging can be the main factor, or the image the speakers create, how much they disappear and stop sounding like two speakers. Getting that in a demo is difficult, plus it's less important with surround than with two channel music. In the end, the 683s are probably a better use of $. You also tend to need better electronics elsewhere to bring out the difference in better speakers. It gets expensive.

    Regarding a preamp... I'm going to roll back what I said. That approach is really a pretty serious enthusiast thing. I would just make certain any receiver you get has preamp outputs, and if/when you get to 7.1.4, you can use an external amp for the front three channels. The main idea behind separates is that you can get better and/or more powerful amps, and keep them through multiple preamps, rather than buying everything over and over again, so it can also actually save money in the long run. I upgraded my preamp earlier this year. I noticed the new model was only a very minor update from the previous one, and I was able to get the previous model on closeout for less than half price. I've had my other amps for several years, and generally got them at a pretty good deal as well. All three amps cost me (several years ago) a total of less than $2000, and I can use them for another 20 years. The preamp I got on closeout was $1050, normally $2200. If you spent $4000 on a receiver, it still wouldn't hold a candle to what I have now. So you can see how it can be a big savings in the long run, while allowing you to have really good equipment. Most people just don't seem to want to plan ahead or go to the trouble, even though it's not that much trouble.
     

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