Bose vs. Expensive wire and cable (1 Viewer)

[Steve G]

Part 1
Although I don't post here very often, I have enjoyed this site for a couple of years and this hobby for nearly 30 years. I have been watching thread after thread bashing Bose audio products. Most people will go on and on about cheap paper cones and how WAY OVERPRICED these speakers are. The one common bit of advice to anyone purchasing speakers is to buy what "YOU" like.AS long as it isn't Bose. Anytime someone comes on here asking for advice or comments about Bose they are suspected of being a trouble maker or a newbie that doesn't have clue. They are often ridiculed and publicly lashed out at. We all know the sayings; No highs no........ and all the rest. Yet it always come down to "You can do so much better for the money" "you are getting ripped off" "Bose sucks people in with their ad money".......and on and on and on.
Part 2
Now in the other corner are the wire, cable and inter connect group. They will come on and talk about and sometimes rave about what a wire or cable will do to improve they're system.Yet sometimes or maybe even most times it is only said to be a slight improvement.It is often said,that if person "A" can't hear or see a differance, then in a lot of cases it's because they don't have a good enough system. I just don't understand how anyone can justify the markup on these things compared to a complete system by Bose.
This all leads me to wonder about a couple things. If a person goes out and buys a Bose setup for $2000, why are they always taken to task in no uncertain terms?
Now if someone goes out and spends $2000 on wires and such, they are usually handled with kid gloves for the most part?
sorry this has gone on so long,but I think its time to respect everyones opinions. i know I can't hear differnces in speaker wire and connections. I also know "I" would get a lot more enjoyment with a complete Bose setup than I would by adding expensive wires to my system.
By the way I have Denon and Def Tech in my setup. I don't have Bose nor do I plan on buying any in the near future. Not that I wouldn't; I' m just happy with what I have right now.
Thanks for listening to my little rant here.
Steve
This is not being said to incite a riot. Its just how I feel.

 

[Jay Mitchosky]

This thread is going to be watched closely. Steve, you've opened up a huge can of worms here: Bose & wire debates have a long history here. People have strong opinions in both regards.
That being said I would comment that you answered your own question on one point...

If a person goes out and buys a Bose setup for $2000, why are they always taken to task in no uncertain terms?
...it always come down to "You can do so much better for the money"

I believe that's the heart of the attitude towards Bose on this and other enthusiast forums. There are better speakers out there that don't have the benefit of an enormous marketing campaign to support them. For someone who has had the opportunity to listen to a wide variety of competitive speakers and they still prefer Bose than they are absolutely justified in their purchase: if they think it sounds better than it is better. But there are many times when consumers buy these speakers based on propaganda and pitches exclusively, not having the opportunity to hear other systems yet are convinced that Bose is still the best. There is no doubt that Bose is one of the finest marketing organizations in the business.
That aside...
Warning in advance: Personal attacks in this thread will lead to immediate suspensions. We've seen this stuff get ugly before.
Thanks for your understanding.
--Jay

 

[Gregg Loewen]

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[Brian Fellmeth]

Thought provoking and I believe legit post. First time I've seen both flash points hit at the same time. In answer to your question re the apparent double standard- we are almost universally alligned against Bose, so the mob mentality takes over. But with cables, we are pretty evenly divided between Yea and Nay sayers. So the "kid gloves" here at HTF represents a little self restraint (that doesn't exist at some of the other sites) to prevent ugliness. This restraint is unecessary when posting about Bose where gleeful piling on is the rule.
[Edited last by Brian Fellmeth on August 13, 2001 at 09:13 AM]

 

[BryanZ]

Pt. 1 - Mainly Bose offers an extremely poor price/performance ratio. There is much better out there for far less money.
Pt. 2 - No idea. Perhaps cables do make a difference?

 

[Phil A]

Quality cables with good connectors can make difference. Like anything else in a system, the investment should be proportionate. One should not expect a $1,000 system to sound like a $1,500 system with $500 spent on cables. There may be improvements but likley not what could be gotten by spending the money on the system. Before one invests in anything, it is always best to listen to it in the context of their system. The best way to evaluate anything is to change the one item you intend to upgrade whether it be cable or hardware. If you can't hear a difference, then don't buy it. If there is a difference but you don't think it is worth the price then don't buy it either.

 

[John Garcia]

While I agree that there tends to be an immediate "gang-up" on anyone who asks about BOSE anything, I also have to agree that for the price, you can certainly do BETTER than BOSE. I tend to stay away from those threads, simply because I feel no need to argue the point and beat it to death.
Personally, I think Bose sounds OK, and will do for most people. I don't feel that their cube arrays provide me with the sound that I am looking for, however their Wave Radio sounds quite impressive (though not $999 impressive).
I could use myself as an example. My father owns the Bose AM-15 - 5 dual cube arrays and a bass module. Approximately $1200. Cube drivers: 2", Bass:6 1/2" or 7". They provide very good dispersion, and sound very acceptable.
My speakers on a budget: 4 Paradigm Titans, 1 Paradigm CC-170, 1 Yamaha YST-SW500 (120w, 10", ported, active servo). Far more presence and dynamics than the Bose system, including a substantial increase in low frequency response. Total cost: $950.
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[Bob McElfresh]

Steve: I believe advising against Bose or expensive copper is NOT a lack of respect for peoples opinions.
We get a lot of sticker-shock people new to HT/Music that come here for advice. And many of them are fresh from the stores where they have gotten the "fresh-out-of-Bose-marketing-seminar" spiel from the salesman.
This is what we are fighting against. Not the people.
And I disagree that people who buy Bose are always taken to task. I've even encouraged people considering them if they have SAF issues. This way, both the husband and wife will get into home-theater without the speakers becoming a point-of-contention.
So please, dont paint the entire fourm with a single brush.
I'm proud of HTF. We often get new-members that have been critized/yelled at from other sites. And I hope we treat them with friendship and respect.
But since you bring the issue up, I will try and watch the tone of our posts to be a little less hard-nosed. (We probably DO scare some people off.)
[Edited last by Bob McElfresh on August 13, 2001 at 10:08 AM]

 

[Todd Hochard]

Just a note:
Good cables do not have to be expensive cables. I can make a 1m cable that will equal many esoteric brands out there for about $8. I use the same stuff that BetterCables.com uses.
Bose- they just sound bad. Paper cones suck at high freq. reproduction. This has been reaffirmed by my recent purchase of an Acura TL Type S, with it's Acura/Bose system (no choice here). The highs are muted, and the midrange just isn't "right", for lack of a better term. The factory Honda system, with its component (separate woofer and tweeter) speaker system, is much more precise, even in the lousy car environment.
Todd

 

[RicP]

I know I can't hear differences in speaker wire and connections. I also know "I" would get a lot more enjoyment with a complete Bose setup than I would by adding expensive wires to my system

Absolutely Apples & Oranges. I've never seen anyone here compare speaker systems to wires, and I've never seen anyone recommend that someone buy $2000 worth of cables if they didn't have any speakers. If you had no speakers, then yes $2000 would better be spent on Bose speakers than on wires. However, if you had $12,000 speakers then perhaps $2000 on cables & wires is not such a terrible thing.
Like Jay said...you sort of answered your own question. With regards to Bose, they are good systems, but overpriced. Are cables & wires overpriced? Well yes...but subjectively they are more difficult to quantify. We can all see how poorly the Bose Acoustimass systems perform relative to other speakers in their price range. Wires however, will continue to be the subject of much debate for a long time to come.
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[John-D]

this post has been changed from it's original version. It's been formatted to fit forum standards and edited for content
[Edited last by John-D on August 13, 2001 at 10:46 AM]

 

[John Morris]

Last week I went to the local Fry's with my boss who was in town visiting with some of my accounts. We were there to look at portable printers but eventually wandered over to the HT area of the store. As we began to chat about HT gear, he matter of factly and proudly proclaimed that he ONLY used Bose speakers, because for music he HAD to have the very best... After a brief pause, I said:

Oh... so what printer do you think you are gonna get?

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[Alex F.]

As for the Bose query, the folks I know who own or have owned those products initially didn't bother to spend any time auditioning competitive speakers. They admittedly made their purchases based on a "need" created by many years of Bose advertising.
I will add that, coincidental or otherwise, that not one acquaintance who has spent an evening in our home enjoying a movie in our theater room or listening to music via our music-only system has ever purchased any Bose gear at any time afterwards.
As for cables, we have two systems built around high-end components, as alluded to above. Originally skeptical, I learned many years ago--starting with a blind test--that I can indeed hear differences between cable products. Sometimes the differences are subtle, sometimes not. Some cables can make a system sound unpleasant (particularly in the upper midrange and lower treble, where my hearing is most critical of a product's performance), whereas others can help a system sound better than expected.
In our bedroom system, which utilizes budget gear (inexpensive speakers and receiver), I use low-priced cables because I can discern no improvement using higher priced cable products. So, yes, I've found, the better the associated equipment, the easier it becomes to hear those differences.

 

[Steve_D]

Because Bose have major provable problems in Freq Response due to their design. If someone just spent $2000 on cables that completely dropped the 120 to 200 HZ freq range (maybe made by Bose? lol), I assume the whole forum would chime in.
Also, expensive cable/interconnect purchasers probably already have a good experience base and those that can hear a difference and are willing to pay for it are already well advanced in the audiophile category.
Think of it this way, in Little League every outfielder should be coached to catch the ball with 2 hands. Yet, by the time the select few get to the Majors, many of them catch it with the glove only, yet no one yells at them for not using "proper" technique (until they drop it!)
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[Edited last by Steve_D on August 13, 2001 at 11:18 AM]

 

[Steve G]

After re-reading my original post I think I may have gotten to long winded for my own good.
The point I was trying to make is how two groups of people perceive value. I really am not trying to say which is right or wrong or better or worse. Both products are marketed at a specific client group. Bose towards people that either don't want their rooms filled up with gear and Wire companies at people who want to try for the last ounce of improvement. A premium is paid for by each group. I was just trying to understand why one group is singled out so badly for trying to accomplish the same thing. That being what they think is right for them. I certainly apologize to anyone who feels slighted here.I was just trying to figure out why things are valued so differantly. Jay, please feel free to delete this thread as I really meant no harm and was only sharing my thoughts on what I understand are 2 very volitile subjects.
Thanks Steve

 

[James Q Jenkins]

You lost me. What's the connection???

Absolutely Apples & Oranges

More like apples and christmas trees to me. Apples and oranges are at least both fruit.
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-JQJ

 

[Saurav]

You lost me. What's the connection???

I think it's a valid connection - someone paying a premium for something, the perceived value of what he bought in his eyes, and the perceived value of the same product in other peoples' eyes. It's not comparing apples to oranges or christmas trees, because he is not comparing speakers to cables, he's comparing attitudes/mindsets towards paying a premium for products.
Having said that, I don't think a buyer of Bose speakers can really be compared to a buyer of high-end cables. The arguments for this have already been presented in this thread, but here's a recap anyway. I'm generalizing a little here, but not too many people who buy Bose have actually auditioned multiple brands of speakers - their purchase decision is based on hearsay. At the same time, not too many people who buy fancy cable do so on hearsay, most of them listen to several cables in their own systems before picking one. So, while both buyers are paying a premium for questionable benefits, the big difference between the two is the basis on which the decision is made. I'm sure no one would have any objections to someone deciding he wanted Bose after he had heard some of the alternatives, and still decided that Bose was what he wanted. Similarly, I'm sure a lot of people would wince if someone bought an ultra-expensive cable just because he came across the name of that manufacturer in a commercial.