Boo Hoo! My Sony MDS-JA555ES minidisc deck goes in for repair tomorrow. :o( (1 Viewer)

[KeithH]

Martin, if Sony can fix the 'JA555ES properly, both operationally and aesthetically, then I suppose I will keep it. However, I am highly skeptical that Sony will ever get it right.

 

[KeithH]

Matthew, I sent an e-mail to the seller of the Pioneer Elite deck requesting a return authorization number. Hopefully I will get it soon.

I've searched web sites such as mysimon.com and have found dealers selling the Denon DMD-1000 for $400-450, but naturally, none of them are authorized dealers, and I'm not sure how reputable they are. I would rather buy the Tascam deck from Oade Bros. if I am going to spend that much on a new deck.

TEAC still makes MD decks as part of their Reference Series. I don't really like them. They are very small components, and I'm not convinced they are any good.

As for the Sony, I'm not at all optimistic that they will ever fix the 'JA555ES properly. We'll see. I've been very busy at work lately, so I haven't sent the 'JA555ES to Boston yet. I'm planning on sending it out tomorrow.

 

[Philip Hamm]

That's sad to hear about the Pioneer. I've always had a lot of respoect for Pioneer optical disc machines of all kinds. I think you may have gotten a DOA, it would be nice to have one that works consistently and see how that works out.

 

[KeithH]

Philip, the unfortunate thing is that I will not be able to fully evaluate the sound quality of the Elite unit. Out of the box, I was not too impressed with it, as I found the treble to be harsh. Maybe it would break in some. I'm not really a proponent of break-in, but maybe it would apply here. Anyway, the Elite deck is a nice-looking machine, but I got a lemon.

As I type this, I am listening to an MD in my Sony MDS-JB930 in my second system. I still love the 'JB930. It is a very solid machine. It sounds crazy, but if I want a good inexpensive MD deck for the main system, maybe I should look at the Sony 'JB940. It's a Sony, but maybe it's solid like the 'JB930. I could get the 'JB940 for $330 from J&R Music World. Hmmm....

 

[Rachael B]

Sorry you got a lemmon Keith! The Pioneer is a nice unit. It's greatest strength are it's analog inputs. Mine certainly never displayed any of those funky behaviors. I feel bad because I think I might have influenced you to buy the thang.
I think you overestimate the importance of weight concerning MD recorders. But, to be fair, I never had any of the over-built, IMO, Sony ES units. A guy locally was trying to sell me his ES MD a few years back. Last time I spoke with him he mentioned that the ES unit had broken down. I'm glad I idn't pay large bucks for it.
I do have the same Pioneer CD player as you. Our universes have some parallels. I think Pioneer's customer service is light years ahead of Sony's. I'd feel alot more comfortable with their's, if needed. Good luck with whatever you try next. I wouldn't discount another Pioneer automatically.... Best wishes!

 

[KeithH]

Rachael,
I hardly hold you responsible for the outcome with the Pioneer Elite MJ-17D. I was well aware of this player before we discussed it here. The reasons I bought it were a result of the reputation of Pioneer Elite components, my own positive experience with the PD-65, and the fact that it was cheap (I paid $250). In any event, it just didn't suit me, the TOC errors aside. Build quality could be better, and it should have gold-plated jacks and a coaxial digital output. In looking at the back panel, the '17D looks cheap. There is nothing "Elite" about it. As I also said in an earlier post, the sound did not grab me. The treble was harsh to my ears.
As for the weight issue, there is no reason for an MD deck to weigh 33 lbs. So, I agree that the 'JA555ES is overbuilt. It still is an impressive unit from a build-quality and sound-quality standpoint, so the problems I have had with it are truly disappointing. Meanwhile, the Sony MDS-JB930 has been going strong since I bought it in June 2000. I just used it last night, and I love that deck. It has a great feel. The transport appears solid when I insert and eject MDs, and the build quality is very good. This is why I am looking at the 'JB940 now. Yes, I know. Another Sony.
Matthew,
I have ordered from J&R many times and have always had good luck with them. Besides giving me great prices, they have always delivered first-rate merchandise that was well packed. I have also returned a few items to J&R for refunds and have never had a problem.
Only one time did J&R screw up an order of mine, and they quickly did right by me. In fact, they went above and beyond the call of duty. Back on the Sunday before Thanksgiving in 2000, I ordered a Sony CDP-CA70ES carousel CD changer from them. At first, they quoted me $250 for it, which was a good price. However, when I told them that Oade Bros. had it for $215, J&R quickly agreed to match the price. I then requested to have the 'CA70ES delivered by the Wednesday before Thanksgiving because I would be going away for the holiday. They said I would get the player by that Wednesday, no problem. By that Wednesday evening, the player hadn't arrived, so I called J&R. They told me that the 'CA70ES was back-ordered at least ten business days. I was pi$$ed and asked to speak to a manager. I had paid for express shipping to get the player before Thanksgiving, so I was looking just to get a refund on the express shipping or possibly to get a complete refund so that I could order the player from another dealer (OneCall or Oade Bros.). The manager, seeing how pi$$ed I was, said he would give me a 'CA80ES, which was in stock, for the same price as the 'CA70ES ($215). Back then, the 'CA80ES sold for around $400. Of course, I jumped on it. I got the 'CA80ES by the day after Thanksgiving. That's what I call customer service.
Matt, we all have different experiences with dealers. Believe it or not, there are probably some people who have sent Sony components to Bristol, PA and gotten good service. You never know.

 

[KeithH]

Matthew, actually, I did not get into a lengthy argument with the customer service rep. at J&R when I found out that the CD changer was on back-order. He was not the one who took my order, so rather than tear him a new one, I simply told him that the situation was unacceptable. He quickly offered to transfer me to a manager who could rectify the situation. I was on hold for a couple minutes, just enough time for the customer service rep. to explain the situation to the manager. So, when the manager got on the line, I didn't have to explain the problem all over again. He apologized for the inconvenience and offered me the 'CA80ES for $215. I was on the phone with J&R for no more than five minutes. I call that excellent customer service.

I will give you that J&R's customer service reps. are not very helpful. Crutchfield is certainly better in that regard. Unfortunately, Crutchfield's prices are not competitive. I do my research on components by other means than calling J&R with questions (e.g., using the HTF). So, I only call J&R for prices and to place orders. In that capacity, they have served me well.

 

[Rachael B]

Keith, I'd suggest that you get a another Pioneer MJ-17 or Sony 940 and hook them to the DAC of your choice and you'll achieve good sound. I think the DAC is the most important thing with this format. My cheap Sonys sound great thru my Marantz AV9000 or my Denon DA-500. A Sony 520 sounds hashy thru it's internal DAC, thru a better DAC it's quite good. I doubt people could tell too much difference between one MD player or the other when played thru a common DAC. I can't....Good luck on finding something you like!

 

[KeithH]

Rachael and Matthew, I am using an NAD C 370 stereo integrated amp, which has no digital processing capability. So, using an MD deck as a transport is not possible.
This MD situation is frustrating. There is no good way to go. Here are my options for getting a new deck since I am not convinced that my 'JA555ES will ever be fixed properly:
* Sony MDS-JA333ES: Pricey at around $700. Sure, I spent big money on the 'JA555ES since I really like MD, but I don't really want to do that again. Besides, it would really sting if I bought the 'JA333ES and it broke down on me. If Sony deems my 'JA555ES irreparable and replaces it with a 'JA333ES, that would be fine. However, I am not going to buy one myself.
* Sony MDS-JB940: J&R quoted me $339 with no payments for three months if I get their credit card. OneCall quoted me $319 for it, and I'm sure I could get J&R to match. I prefer ordering from J&R when I can. As I have said in earlier posts, I have a 'JB930 in my second system that I am very happy with. From that standpoint, the 'JB940 is attractive. However, it is a Sony.
* Sony MDS-JE470: I can get this deck for about $180. I view this as a deck that could tide me over in the hopes that the 'JA555ES would be fixed properly. However, I am simply afraid that the 'JE470 is a POS. I generally don't like Sony's mass-market gear. My main stereo system where this deck would reside is quite revealing, so I would expect the 'JE470 to sound poor there. Again, I can't use the digital output to my stereo integrated amp. Also, the 'JE470 is a Sony. So, I don't see myself getting this player.
* Sony MDS-E10: The 'E10 is a pro deck. Oade Bros. doesn't stock it, but they can get it. They quoted me $425, which isn't bad at all considering it retails for $600. One person at Oade Bros. said that the the transport on the pro model should be more robust than transports on consumer units, but another person at Oade Bros. said there is likely to be no difference. Again, it's a Sony.
* Sony MDS-E12: The 'E12 is basically the 'E10 with balanced inputs and outputs as well as RS-232 ports. In addition, the 'E12 lacks optical digital inputs and outputs that the 'E10 offers. I guess the optical digital jacks were dropped on the 'E12 to accommodate the balanced and RS-232 jacks. Oade Bros. quoted me $595 for the 'E12, while the retail price is $900. From what I read on Sony's pro audio web site, there is nothing in the 'E12 that should make it a better deck than the 'E10 in terms of construction and sound quality. So, I'd be throwing money away if I bought the 'E12. And once again, the 'E12 is a Sony.
* Pioneer Elite MJ-17D: I may be able to find another one somewhere, but I had a bad experience with one already. I wonder where people on eBay are getting them. They don't seem to be Pioneer dealers who just happen to have old stock. Anyway, given that the MJ-17D was discontinued awhile ago, I wonder if anyone is offering A-stock anymore.
* Denon DMD-1000: Yahoo! lists e-tailers who are still selling the Denon player for $400-460. However, none of these dealers are authorized. They state that right on their web sites. I went to the web sites of several of the vendors who are selling the Denon player for $400, and found that the web sites all look the same. Many of these e-tailers are merely distributors. They don't really stock anything, but are part of a buying network and have sources for merchandise. That bothers me.
Denon has a policy posted on its web site stating that you must buy their merchandise from authorized retailers to get service under the warranty. I called Denon about this yesterday because no authorized dealers still have the '1000. I told them that I would have no choice but to buy one from an unauthorized dealer (i.e., it's not my fault that Denon stopped making the player). So, I asked if under that circumstance whether I would be shutout from warranty coverage. The Denon customer service rep. said that in that situation, Denon would probably make an exception, but possibly for only one repair. In any event, he gave me the name and phone number of Denon's national service manager to discuss the situation were I to buy the '1000. It just seems like too much trouble. When I lived in New Jersey, a local, authorized Denon dealer stocked the DMD-1000, but no more. Ah, the good old days.
* Tascam MD-301mkII: This is another pro model. Oade Bros. quoted me $415 for it, though they would have to special-order it. I had a Tascam DAT deck once, which was a great unit. I wonder about the Tascam MD deck. One thing that bothers me a bit is that it uses ATRAC version 4.5, not the most recent Type-R. So, it may be an older model. I also know nothing about how robust it is or the sound quality using the analog outputs. At least it isn't a Sony.
* TEAC Reference Series players: TEAC makes three MD players for its different Reference Series systems. They are all very small components, and I just don't like the look of them. In addition, I have my doubts about the quality of these players.
So, that's it. There is no ideal solution here. In some regards, the Tascam unit may be the most attractive option. For now, however, I think I will wait to see what Sony does with my 'JA555ES this time around. I sent it out to their repair facility in Westwood, MA, yesterday. That was Sony's latest proposal to me. They said that only a Sony technician can deem a component irreparable, and that hasn't happened yet. So, they asked that I send it to the Westwood facility since they know that I am thoroughly frustrated with Bristol. I'll let you know what happens.

 

[Geo]

Keith,

Is the Sony MDS-JA333ES worth the $700? I have a JA5ES and really like it. How does the JA333ES compare to the JA5ES?

Thanks for your help,

MINI DISC RULES................

geo

 

[Rachael B]

Keith, my stereo system has an analog Hafler pre and a Rotel amp. It also has no digital inputs. The Hafler is a modified 1980's model. Having the stand-alone Denon DAC in the system means I don't have to pay for great DAC's in every source component I might want. I had a cheap Sony 5 disc CD changer in the system for awhile. Playing it out of it's optical output it sounded pretty darn good. You should explore this avenue. You might find a DAC that you'd prefer over the ones in the Pioneer PD-65...? Most stand alone DAC's have 2 or more inputs. Many have digital outputs to go to recorders too, mine does. You have more options here than you may presume. You can get another Sony 940 and linked to a terrific DAC it could be way better than a Sony ES unit. Good luck with your search for audio nirvana, Rachael!

 

[KeithH]

Matthew,

Yeah, I am going to wait and see if Sony's Westwood, MA, facility can finally fix my 'JA555ES. I hope so.

Geo,

I am not familiar with the 'JA5ES. I know Sony once made a 'JA3ES, but I have never used it. It's a few years old and probably uses an older version of ATRAC. I imagine a 'JA5ES is of the same generation. The 'JA3ES has no drawer, just a standard-looking slot for loading the MD. Does the 'JA5ES have a drawer like some of the later ES models (i.e., 'JA50ES, 'JA20ES, 'JA555ES, and 'JA333ES)?

Are you sure you didn't mean the 'JA50ES? The 'JA50ES was once a top-of-line model. It was the predecessor to the 'JA555ES. In any event, if you have a 'JA5ES, I would guess that the 'JA333ES (and the 'JA555ES) would be better mainly because they use a newer version of ATRAC. They could well be similar in terms of DACs, power supplies, etc.

Rachael,

I am very happy with the sound of my components using the analog outputs right now, so I am not entertaining an external DAC right now. I certainly wouldn't buy one to pair with an inexpensive MD deck. That's out of the question. Maybe I will investigate DACs like the Perpetual Technologies unit one day, but not anytime soon. As I said to Matthew, I am going to see if Sony can fix my 'JA555ES before I consider buying another deck. If the 'JA555ES comes back from Sony in unsuitable condition this time, I will call Sony once again and raise hell. If I continue to have to raise hell with them, maybe they will eventually decide to cut their losses one and for all and replace my deck with a new 'JA333ES. Maybe I just have to be a real on-going pain in their a$$ to get them to see things my way.

 

[Geo]

Whoops.......... I meant the JA20ES.

Sorry about that...............

geo

 

[KeithH]

Geo, the 'JA20ES was marketed at the same time as the 'JA555ES, with the latter model being top-of-the-line. The two players look virtually identical, but the 'JA555ES is quite a bit heavier at 33+ lbs. If memory serves, the 'JA20ES weighs around 20 lbs. The 'JA555ES has larger power supplies and a thicker chassis. I'm not sure how else the two models may differ, but the 'JA555ES could very well offer better internal construction overall. As for where the 'JA333ES fits in, a review I read in one British magazine last summer stated it was better than the 'JA20ES. Overall, reviews have stated that the 'JA333ES is not quite as good as the 'JA555ES. So, it seems that Sony discontinued the 'JA20ES and 'JA555ES and replaced them with an in-between model in the 'JA333ES. It really is a shame that Sony discontinued the 'JA555ES in the US. I believe it is still available in Europe.

By the way, the 'JA333ES has Sony's newer MDLP feature, which the 'JA20ES and 'JA555ES lack. Also, the 'JA333ES weighs around 24 lbs., which puts it in between the 'JA20ES and 'JA555ES.

 

[Philip Hamm]

I certainly wouldn't buy one to pair with an inexpensive MD deck. That's out of the question.

Why not? My MDS-JB920 hooked through the digital connection to my Sherwood Newcastle AVP-9080 pre/pro sounds amazing. There really is not much to an MD drive, the most important aspect is the analog section for recording in my experience. And the analog to digital conversion on my MDS-JB920 is very acceptible to me. As I wrote in my original first impression of the AVP-9080, the thing that really amazed me about the piece is the amazingly good sound of MiniDisc. Theoretically going through ATRAC conversion the digital audio is reclocked, meaning no jitter, a nice bonus. I tell you the sound of analog recoring through my 920 is very damn good, and when decoded by the high quality DACs in my pre/pro it sounds extremely impressive.

 

[Darren Lewis]

Hi again KeithH!

I'm sorry that you've had so much trouble with Sony. I have always praised them for being good quality products with good support. I own quite a few of their products (VAIO laptop, DV camcorder, 32" WEGA TV to name a few), and I've always considered them to be a "gold standard" brand.

I'm concerned by this lack of care for your equipment. Like many of us here I'm sure your equipment is lovingly cared for and given pride of place in your home. I get so annoyed when technicians/engineers treat it as just another bit of kit to throw around and generally treat like trash.

Is there any sort of third party in the US that can help you - consumer rights body or something similar? In the UK, we have the "Trading Standards Authority" and failing that the BBC "Watchdog" prog often takes on companies that are not treating their customers the way that they should.

Good luck in your quest, and don't let them get away with it!

 

[KeithH]

Philip,

If I were to buy an external DAC for my NAD C 370 stereo integrated amp, I would buy a high-quality stereo DAC, not an A/V pre-pro or receiver. The 'JA555ES or a replacement deck resides or would reside in a dedicated stereo system, so I would be looking at a stand-alone stereo DAC that would probably be fairly expensive. For example, I would look at the Perpetual Technologies model for around $800 or possibly something better (i.e., more expensive). I certainly would not spend that much money to improve the sound of a $320 Sony MDS-JB940 MD deck. Such a DAC would be for my better CD players first (Sony SCD-777ES, for example). Currently, I am very happy using the analog outputs on my CD players, so I am not looking for a DAC.

I looked at some inexpensive MD decks, but I have decided to wait and see what Sony does with my 'JA555ES. Either they fix it properly or they replace it with a 'JA333ES. Either way, I will not need an external DAC. I loved the sound of the 'JA555ES using the analog outputs. Except for the drawer problems, it's a great MD deck.

Finally, if I bought the 'JB940, I probably wouldn't need an external DAC anyway. Prior to getting the 'JA555ES, I used the 'JB930 in my main stereo system, which is quite revealing. The 'JB' decks have Sony's Current Pulse DAC, and the 'JB930 sounded quite good in that system using the analog outputs. In a previous post, I was discussing poor sound from the analog outputs if I were to buy the 'JE470, which isn't in the same league as the 'JB940.

Darren,

Thanks for support. I take great care with my components. When I first brought my 'JA555ES to Sony for repair, it was in immaculate condition, except that the drawer didn't work. It looked like it was brand new. I'm not one of those people who rests things on top of their components or does anything else careless. The 'JA555ES was in a component cabinet behind a glass door. It was very well cared for. As a result, I am horrified by the wreckless manner in which Sony has handled my component.

There are consumer watchdog groups in the US. The problem is that it is hard to prove where the fault lies for any damage incurred on an item. For example, it would be very easy for Sony to say that they gave me back the player in the cosmetic condition in which they received it and that I damaged it. Fortunately, they haven't pulled that crap on me (yet). Anyway, I would hate to have to get involved with a consumer watchdog group.

 

[Jeff]

As I stated earlier in this growing thread, I've never had a problem with my Pioneer MJ-707D, which is exactly the same as the Elite version but not as well built.

Etown (remember them?) rated the MJ-17D the best MD player as far as sound quality was concerned. This was a couple years back. I never doubted the review since the sound quality on my 707D is excellent.

Jeff

 

[KeithH]

Jeff, determining the best-sounding MD deck, like anything else, depends on one's personal preference and breadth of experience. I wonder what other MD decks the reviewer at Etown had experience with. In any event, I have no experience with the MJ-707D, but I found the treble on the MJ-17D to be grating. My 'JA555ES sounded noticeably better to my ears, as did the Sony 'JB930 that I used to use in that system. Just my opinion, of course.
By the way, given the difference in retail price between the '17D and '707D when they were in production, I would hope that they differ by more than just build quality. In other words, I would hope that the '17D offers more than just the rosewood sidepanels and black Urushi finish. As an Elite component, I would expect the '17D to have a better power supply and possibly a better DAC, and maybe even a better analog output stage. Maybe that is not the case. As I said in an earlier post, I found that the back panel of the '17D in no way resembled an Elite component. The RCA inputs and outputs are not gold-plated, and there is no coaxial digital output. Maybe the '17D is just a slightly gussied up version of the '707D. If so, then .

 

[Rachael B]

Keith, since everything about the MJ-17 "kit" you got wasn't cricket, maybe your evaluation was, say, incomplete.... I played my first MJ-17 several times through my Pioneer SP-99D's line 2 analog input the week I got it and was impressed. I then put it in my stereo system for recording vinnyl. I think it's analog inputs are a cut above my Sony 920's. I disconnected my 920 from my main system yesterday and inserted the extra MJ-17 into it. I'm listenig to it as I type this. The DAC is my Marantz 9000's though... The only thing I don't like better about the Pioneer better than the Sony 920 is the remote and titling. I don't care about built-in DAC's though as I really don't need them..... My brief impression of the 17's DAC's was favourable.
To anybody else out there looking for a bargin on an MD player. If you can find a MJ-17 for $250 or less, jump on it. It's an excellent player. As a transport it's rendering Mighty Sam McClain beautifully at the moment....
Good luck on your quest Keith, where ever it may lead you. Best wishes!