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Bonanza "lost" episodes (1 Viewer)

Ron1973

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This isn't exactly a "DVD" question, but why are the later seasons of Bonanza referred to as "lost" episodes? I see Encore Western refer to them as such and the CBS Syndication Bible. I know they're not syndicated with the other run but why refer to them as "lost?" Here's for hoping CBS HE will continue to release these on DVD! The syndication bible says Season 7 is in the process of being redone for hi-def!!!!
 

Richard V

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Ron1973 said:
This isn't exactly a "DVD" question, but why are the later seasons of Bonanza referred to as "lost" episodes? I see Encore Western refer to them as such and the CBS Syndication Bible. I know they're not syndicated with the other run but why refer to them as "lost?" Here's for hoping CBS HE will continue to release these on DVD! The syndication bible says Season 7 is in the process of being redone for hi-def!!!!
Just watched one of the "Lost Episodes" and noticed that the closing music is completely different from the traditional Bonanza theme of the early classic years. Not sure if the original theme was restored in the last few years or not, but hearing a different theme music was jarring.
 

Ron1973

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Richard V said:
Just watched one of the "Lost Episodes" and noticed that the closing music is completely different from the traditional Bonanza theme of the early classic years. Not sure if the original theme was restored in the last few years or not, but hearing a different theme music was jarring.
Michael Landon had taken over production at that point. There were totally different camera shots from years before and if you'll also notice, at least on some episodes, some of the background music is the same as later used on "Little House." There isn't any music to restore on these but you're right, it is different to say the least!
 

Randy Korstick

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The reason these seasons are referred to as lost is when Bonanza was sold in syndication only the 1st 9 or 10 seasons were sold out of 14 seasons. (Sorry not sure of the exact season). That was considered more than enough episodes for a syndication package. The remaining seasons were not shown for many years until brought back as lost episodes in the late 90's. They weren't really lost but since they hadn't been seen in over 20 years when they were brought back they were referred to as lost. If the entire series is hopefully released on DVD they will not be referred to as lost episodes. The music issue is curious. Its possible some rescoring was done as in the public domain releases of Bonanza on DVD. We probably won't know for sure when those seasons come out on DVD.
 

Ron1973

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Randy Korstick said:
The reason these seasons are referred to as lost is when Bonanza was sold in syndication only the 1st 9 or 10 seasons were sold out of 14 seasons. (Sorry not sure of the exact season). That was considered more than enough episodes for a syndication package. The remaining seasons were not shown for many years until brought back as lost episodes in the late 90's. They weren't really lost but since they hadn't been seen in over 20 years when they were brought back they were referred to as lost. If the entire series is hopefully released on DVD they will not be referred to as lost episodes. The music issue is curious. Its possible some rescoring was done as in the public domain releases of Bonanza on DVD. We probably won't know for sure when those seasons come out on DVD.
I know growing up, I never saw these episodes. The first time I remember seeing them was about 10 years ago on one of the family-oriented channels. I'm probably in the minority (as usual! :D ) but I prefer these episodes over the earlier ones. Maybe it's just me, but the earlier episodes were too formulaic and I've never been a huge fan of Pernell Roberts. To me, Mr. Roberts sticks out like a sore thumb, almost like you could see how unhappy he was with his role. I, too, hope that CBS HE releases these later seasons to DVD. I saw where Season 7 is being transferred to HD per the syndication bible, so that gives me hope. Just in case, though, I'm saving these to my DVR and I'll be making DVD copies of them eventually.
 

Richard V

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Ron1973 said:
Michael Landon had taken over production at that point. There were totally different camera shots from years before and if you'll also notice, at least on some episodes, some of the background music is the same as later used on "Little House." There isn't any music to restore on these but you're right, it is different to say the least!
I would agree, the episode I watched was shot on location, and not on a obvious sound stage which was largely used in much of the early years. It looked much more similar to location shooting used in The High Chapparral.
 

Dan McW

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Richard V said:
Just watched one of the "Lost Episodes" and noticed that the closing music is completely different from the traditional Bonanza theme of the early classic years. Not sure if the original theme was restored in the last few years or not, but hearing a different theme music was jarring.
The classic Jay Livingston/Ray Evans opening and closing theme was replaced in seasons 12 and 13 by a new theme composed by David Rose. I believe the Livingston/Evans theme returned in season 14. The watercolor paintings used in the closing credits for seasons 1-12 largely disappeared in season 13, with scrolling credits appearing over a single watercolor (the one of the stage, usually seen at the end in earlier seasons).
 

Ron1973

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Dan McW said:
The classic Jay Livingston/Ray Evans opening and closing theme was replaced in seasons 12 and 13 by a new theme composed by David Rose. I believe the Livingston/Evans theme returned in season 14. The watercolor paintings used in the closing credits for seasons 1-12 largely disappeared in season 13, with scrolling credits appearing over a single watercolor (the one of the stage, usually seen at the end in earlier seasons).
Entirely possible that the original theme reappeared. Season 14 was where Hoss died and they wound up bringing Candy back. It was a season of trying to bring back viewers so it's very, very possible the theme returned.
 

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Ron1973 said:
Entirely possible that the original theme reappeared. Season 14 was where Hoss died and they wound up bringing Candy back. It was a season of trying to bring back viewers so it's very, very possible the theme returned.
Definitely correct. I saw season 14 only once, when it originally aired in the early 70s, but I remember how happy I was that the Livingston/Evans theme was back, even though I also liked the David Rose theme from seasons 12 and 13.
 

Ron1973

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I can't wait for CBS HE to hopefully transfer these to HD and get them out on DVD. The prints that Encore is showing look fabulous but I think HD would be astounding for those episodes considering the way Michael Landon's camera work was in those later episodes.
 

Ron1973

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Four years later, and I guess we're stalled on S8 of Bonanza as best I can tell. I guess it's too early to call it stalled out, but I sure wish CBS would get on the ball. Maybe I'm preaching to the choir, but then again maybe we can hope some head honcho at CBS reads what we post. The targeted audience for this show is getting older by the day. We're talking a series that started over 50 years ago. I see people on Facebook clamoring for this and other shows on DVD, yet they continue to live up the moniker of "Constantly Being Stalled." :wacko::unsure:<_<:(:thumbsdown:
 

Randy Korstick

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I hear you Ron. I'm still hoping they continue Bonanza and Gunsmoke. I have a feeling we will at least get season 13 of Gunsmoke at the end of this year but was hoping we would get 2 seasons this year. Hopefully Bonanza season 9 will also make it at the end of this year. I wish they would drop the extras and just release re-mastered seasons of these shows through their mod service. That would certainly reduce the costs for them. I just want the remastered episodes more than anything else. Don't care if there are extras or not and if it is mod or not. I guess I can include our favorite hillibillies in this too. It maybe the best chance of that show being completed too.
 

Ron1973

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I hear you Ron. I'm still hoping they continue Bonanza and Gunsmoke. I have a feeling we will at least get season 13 of Gunsmoke at the end of this year but was hoping we would get 2 seasons this year. Hopefully Bonanza season 9 will also make it at the end of this year. I wish they would drop the extras and just release re-mastered seasons of these shows through their mod service. That would certainly reduce the costs for them. I just want the remastered episodes more than anything else. Don't care if there are extras or not and if it is mod or not. I guess I can include our favorite hillibillies in this too. It maybe the best chance of that show being completed too.
I'm watching the "lost episodes" via YouTube. I could live with the picture quality being presented there as it's not bad; even my mother remarked last night how good they looked.
 

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While I would be willing to pickup seasons 9 through 13 w/o the HD remastering that the other seasons received, just to have them, I don't think CBS will go that route. Whenever they stray from the HD process they get blasted (e.g., Bonanza season 2, Rawhide season 4). The majority of consumers won't understand and will just gripe that it doesn't look as good as prior seasons and then initial sales will suffer sending the wrong message and back to stall-ville we will go.

As a result, i just hope they continue to revisit it from time to time for HD remastering (as they continue to prepare for HD syndication) and we'll get a surprise release every few years. Personally, while season 2 was a bit soft and washed out I still enjoyed it just fine, and would imagine these later seasons would look the same. I did captures from Encore of the "Lost" episodes several years back but not all of the later episodes are included, so even that doesn't fill the gaps. I also have some of the German releases to hold me over.

I saw season 14 just once on the "Family Channel" back in the 90's. I don't really have an interest in seeing it again. It starts with a real downer (two-parter) and has a hard time ever recovering without Hoss. I'd rather end my viewing with season 13 while Hoss is still an active part of the Ponderosa.
 

Ron1973

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While I would be willing to pickup seasons 9 through 13 w/o the HD remastering that the other seasons received, just to have them, I don't think CBS will go that route. Whenever they stray from the HD process they get blasted (e.g., Bonanza season 2, Rawhide season 4). The majority of consumers won't understand and will just gripe that it doesn't look as good as prior seasons and then initial sales will suffer sending the wrong message and back to stall-ville we will go.

As a result, i just hope they continue to revisit it from time to time for HD remastering (as they continue to prepare for HD syndication) and we'll get a surprise release every few years. Personally, while season 2 was a bit soft and washed out I still enjoyed it just fine, and would imagine these later seasons would look the same. I did captures from Encore of the "Lost" episodes several years back but not all of the later episodes are included, so even that doesn't fill the gaps. I also have some of the German releases to hold me over.

I saw season 14 just once on the "Family Channel" back in the 90's. I don't really have an interest in seeing it again. It starts with a real downer (two-parter) and has a hard time ever recovering without Hoss. I'd rather end my viewing with season 13 while Hoss is still an active part of the Ponderosa.
S14 is okay, but you're right in the fact it's not the same without Hoss. The thing with "every few years" is that there are 6 seasons left to go; that translates into 15-18 years! I may have to wind up going for the German releases if they include all of the episodes.
 

Neil Brock

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I know I recorded all of the "lost" episodes a few years ago from one of the cable networks that was running them. Unsydicated, not lost.
 

Ron1973

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I know I recorded all of the "lost" episodes a few years ago from one of the cable networks that was running them. Unsydicated, not lost.
I did the same as well. I also understand they were at one point unsyndicated, never "lost" per se. I was simply going with the term generally used to describe them. I'm watching S13 as we speak. I'm desirous, as many fans are, to have these officially restored and on DVD. If not, I can live with the episodes I have in the condition they are.
 

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Some episodes were dropped from later screenings, and some were
re-titled as 'Ponderosa' with revised 'burning map' and episode title background

Season 12 indeed features a new theme tune plus revised openings as the last 'ride up' - of just the three Cartwrights - was filmed way back in 1965 or 66 for season seven after Pernell Roberts dropped out - instead it's various shots of the three stars that freeze and go to 'blue tinge' for credit while Mitch Vogel joins the cast as Jamie Hunter-Cartwright to appeal to younger viewers (with semi regular credit in season 12) also the end credit is just the 'lady on the stage' end picture with rolling credits

David Canary's 'Candy' is absent - except for 'Kingdom of Fear' filmed earlier - which I felt was a loss to the show

Season 13 also had David Rose new theme tune BUT after the sad unexpected death of Dan Blocker season 14 saw the classic Livingston-Evans theme restored tho' in a new arrangement slightly more upbeat, while David Rose theme tune from seasons 12-13 is retained as incidental music in episodes

David Canary returns as Candy - no explanation of his two season absence - plus Tim Mathieson ('Jim Horn' in 'The Virginian' season 8) joins the regular cast as 'Griff King' a young ex-convict Ben rehabilitates by taking him on as a ranch hand after the episode 'Riot' who in 'New Man' proves a pain at first...but is established as a new regular by the episode's ending

Jamie remains...Mitch Vogel suddenly has sprouted up and looks about 16 years old being noticeably taller

so it's Ben/Joe/Candy/Jamie/Griff for the final season - with a set cast credit in that order with revised opening action shots of each after the famous 'burning map' intro

the final season was cancelled with eight episodes left unfilmed, so the 16 episodes give the show scant time to try to recover from losing Dan and Hoss BUT those 16 episodes are pretty decent as a TV western show in their own right

'Forever' where Joe loses his intended wife - written for Hoss originally - became Mike Landon's tribute to Dan Blocker...the latter scene where a tearful Joe and Ben embrace looks NOT to be acting by either Mike or Lorne...

no onscreen mention is made of Hoss absence as I recall....the show while never quite the same after Adam left was still strong enough to continue and grow in popularity, Candy filled the gap quite well too, and the later regulars were o.k. but minus Hoss (& Dan) the show just wasn't quite the same somehow ...but season 14 IS well worth watching
 
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smithbrad

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no onscreen mention is made of Hoss absence as I recall....the show while never quite the same after Adam left was still strong enough to continue and grow in popularity, Candy filled the gap quite well too, and the later regulars were o.k. but minus Hoss (& Dan) the show just wasn't quite the same somehow ...but season 14 IS well worth watching

My memory may be playing tricks on me, but I seem to recall a scene in the two part episode where Joe is tracking the killer of his intended wife and he is sitting down looking over a cliff and says something to the effect of missing Hoss and wishing he was there. Nothing to indicate what happened to Hoss, but just that he was gone.

As for season 14, I saw it once on the Family Channel. My personal opinion is that I wouldn't want to own it or ever watch it again. It was I suppose okay, but the combination of the first two-parter, the loss of Hoss, and the fact it only ran for half a season makes it an unnecessary part of the Ponderosa history for me. Now if it had continued on for a few more years and re-established itself with Griff and the return of Candy (who I always liked), I might have a different opinion.

Similar to what Ron stated above, I got hooked on Bonanza during the "Lost" episode run. So my familiarity came about with Ben, Joe, Hoss, and Candy, and then Jamie. While i was around i saw very few of the early years with Adam, so the DVDs have been great in allowing me to experience the whole series. I like the whole run even with the cast changes, but Hoss (as well as Ben and Joe) were too integral to the family dynamic to be lost for me (after 13 years of screen time). As it stands, I can go from the end of season 13 right back to season 1 without missing a beat, but not with season 14 in the mix. Just my personal perspective.
 

Ron1973

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My memory may be playing tricks on me, but I seem to recall a scene in the two part episode where Joe is tracking the killer of his intended wife and he is sitting down looking over a cliff and says something to the effect of missing Hoss and wishing he was there. Nothing to indicate what happened to Hoss, but just that he was gone.

As for season 14, I saw it once on the Family Channel. My personal opinion is that I wouldn't want to own it or ever watch it again. It was I suppose okay, but the combination of the first two-parter, the loss of Hoss, and the fact it only ran for half a season makes it an unnecessary part of the Ponderosa history for me. Now if it had continued on for a few more years and re-established itself with Griff and the return of Candy (who I always liked), I might have a different opinion.

Similar to what Ron stated above, I got hooked on Bonanza during the "Lost" episode run. So my familiarity came about with Ben, Joe, Hoss, and Candy, and then Jamie. While i was around i saw very few of the early years with Adam, so the DVDs have been great in allowing me to experience the whole series. I like the whole run even with the cast changes, but Hoss (as well as Ben and Joe) were too integral to the family dynamic to be lost for me (after 13 years of screen time). As it stands, I can go from the end of season 13 right back to season 1 without missing a beat, but not with season 14 in the mix. Just my personal perspective.
I was more familiar with the traditional package, though it seemed our local stations delved into some of the "lost" episodes since I remember Candy being a part of the show. I think the show took on a more "daring" approach in the last seasons with some great stories and some great camera work. I watched the episode last night (again), "The Saddle Stiff," with Buddy Ebsen guest starring. There is not one episode from the earlier seasons that would touch that in my opinion.
 

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