Boeing 7E7 "Dreamliner" To Be Approved For Manufacturing On Monday Dec. 15th (1 Viewer)

[Peter Kim]

I love the history of American aviation, but I fear for its future. When McDonnell Douglas, Pan Am, and Braniff went down, I was greatly saddened.

I grew up in an era when US aviation/industry was at its pinnacle and world dominant. After watching a Discovery channel(?) piece on the Airbus A380, it appears that the only swagger coming from aviation is out of France.

I heard long ago that Boeing was to compete with the A380 by updating the 747 (which I believe is a failed plan - while I'm still awe-inspired by the jumbo jet, it's a too-aging blueprint not enticing to airlines). But I've not heard anything since about Boeing's plan to compete...if the 7E7 is it, I'm afraid Boeing will be relegated to coach class.

Although the 7E7 may return/maintain Boeing to profitability, it just doesn't carry the same stature as having the world's greatest & largest commercial plane...a mantle that Airbus will undoubtedly proudly bear and use to reap rewards.

 

[Cees Alons]

BTW, I like the dolphin look of 7E7. Hope the pictures are true to the real thing.

Cees

 

[Garrett Lundy]

I'm all for an airplane that uses less fuel.

But the air-travel industry is still the worst thing mankind has ever unleased on travel

End result: I still do not plan to fly again. Ever. Driving for me thank you.

 

[Cees Alons]

Garett,

I still do not plan to fly again. Ever. Driving for me thank you.

Europe? Australia? Japan?

Cees

 

[MattBu]

End result: I still do not plan to fly again. Ever. Driving for me thank you.

Please let me know how your Camry does on your way to Korea, or Europe, or South America, or any of the other wonderful places you can't get to by driving.

I've yet to fly on one of these new fangled planes with a TV though I did fly on one of the first 777 flights, being that the TVs weren't hooked up.

My sister and brother in law flew to the states from Germany and they said that on the TV planes there is now a trivia game you can play with fellow passengers (A la bar trivia) that sounds like a BLAST.

I'm all for the move forward in technology, I just hope that Boeing gets its head out of its ass and realizes that being American isnt enough for it to compete in the VERY competetive aviation market.

 

[Kirk Gunn]

My wife is a flight attendant, and if she had a dollar for every time she heard that... well, she wouldn't have to be a flight attendant anymore.

Flying post 9/11 s-cks, no doubt about it. But driving from Wash DC to Turk and Caicos is a little tough during the hurricane season.

 

[Edwin-S]

Yes, but I think that is because these newer jets are using high bypass ratio turbofan jet engines. Newer turbo fan technolgy is considerably quieter than the engines that were used on older jets. I remember being able to hear 737s taking off and I lived a long way from the airport. Nowadays, you hardly hear the things until they are almost right on top of you,

The BAE-146, which is used by a local commuter line, uses four smaller turbofans. For a jet it is very quiet: both inside and out. The same cannot be said for the Fokker F-28. Cabin noise is very pronounced in that aircraft. If I was an employee working day in and day out on F-28s, I would be wearing ear plugs.

 

[Edwin-S]

I believe Airbus is heavily subsidized by the British and French governments. I would hardly consider the company to be operating on an even competitive playing field with Boeing.

Not to mention, Airbus has also been known to stoop to bribery and kickbacks in order to ensure sales: not that Boeing could be called a virgin when it comes to offering "incentives."

 

[Michael*K]

I believe Airbus is heavily subsidized by the British and French governments. I would hardly consider the company to be operating on an even competitive playing field with Boeing.

I agree. To sit around and slam Boeing for a lack of technological innovation is shortsighted. Considering Airbus received $3-$4 billion in government-funded subsidies just for the A380 program, it's no wonder Boeing is playing catchup. If the U.S. government was putting that much cash in Boeing's pockets I think you'd see a more level playing field.

 

[Peter Kim]

Europe has long set in its sights the US and its efforts to unseat our leadership in the world economy has fast been at play (e.g., European Union/euro). As the company that bears the now-tarnished mantle of American aviation, Boeing has been Airbus' target for all of these years, culminating in the evolution and production of the A380.

While I'm sure talks about an uneven playing field are right, it is a competitive advantage that won't be abdicated because we cry out unfair. Even worse, the US gov't will never put that much cash into Boeing's pockets thereby propagating the Airbus edge. (See all of the US gov't contracts going abroad, e.g. software development to India, in the name of fiscal 'responsibilty' and taxpayers' dollars consideration, which paradoxically hurts the US/taxpayer in the long run despite whatever short term cost savings.)

So, the European Union won't genuflect to the US in the name of competitive integrity. And the US govt will not subsidize Boeing in the interest of preserving national pride and the fading glory of an iconic company (ironic that the glittering example of the singular circumstance, Chrysler, has been 'bought' by Daimler Benz.)

All that remains is the trump card the US/Boeing once held, cutting-edge innovation that was the hallmark of Boeing, McDonnell Douglas, et al yore. To rest on the laurels of its halcyon days and not regroup and reinvest in R&D to produce inimitable innovation would further sink Boeing into dire straits.

I love the Boeing name and its history. I don't like how it's being run down today. Look at Xerox and IBM...different situations, yes, but similar in the fact that they were once considered monolithic, invincible US names, only to be eventually cast aside by consumers in the face of unified, insurmountable foreign competition...and much worse, bogged down by their own mismanagement and arrogance.

 

[David Von Pein]

When McDonnell Douglas, Pan Am, and Braniff went down, I was greatly saddened.

Yes, I feel that pain. :frowning:

The "small" Pan Am of today just cannot compare to the Pan American World Airways of the 1960s/1970s.

Anybody remember these big beautiful orange babies of Braniff?

 

[David Von Pein]

It's hard to beat aviation (photography-wise) .......

http://airliners.net/open.file?id=23...%3D&static=yes

http://airliners.net/open.file?id=13...%3D&static=yes

http://airliners.net/open.file?id=23...%3D&static=yes

 

[Philip_G]

Mark, you wouldn't believe how much things like noise abatement proceedures affect the bottom line. Rumor has it that Southwest intended to make Albuquerque a hub, but decided against it because of the number of departures that would be subjected to noise regulations and have to fly an extra 20 to 25 miles each.

I'm hopeful that the modernization of the FAA is going to bring a more modern approach to noise control. Instead of blocking areas where nothing can fly, or restricting aircraft at certain times of the day, we need to have decibel guidelines and be able to use quick climbs to both the advantage of ATC and the airlines. If that comes to pass, we will see a much quicker transition to newer, quieter, more fuel efficient aircraft. The initial investment will be quickly offset by fuel savings.

GAH! beat me to it. MSP has a pretty extensive noise abatement program, I think it goes as far as having microphones in sensitive areas, then the *pilot* is fined for triggering them.
Also new airplanes are quieter across the board, not just airbus. Even the old airplanes are quieter.


I also agree that airbus is subsidized, they never have to turn a profit and can sell their products as cheaply as they want.

Time will tell for the a380, last I heard the french were pissed at the massive amounts of sand required to build the damn thing, and airbus was poaching it from a protected area. Haven't heard anything about that in awhile though.


I'm surprised no one has mentioned eastern. The other airlines went down to bad practices, got absorbed by others, or just couldn't fill airplanes, eastern got taken down by the mechanics union. It might have just been the final straw, but is a raw deal none the less.

p.s. I work for a subsidiary of boeing... so I might be *slightly* biased

 

[Michael*K]

I always loved watching the 747SP's like the one referenced in the Braniff link above. It always looked to me like a kid that stopped growing. Don't really see them much anymore. :frowning: Most of the remaining ones are in service with airlines in the Middle East.

 

[Garrett Lundy]

Europe? Australia? Japan?

If my destination cannot be reached by way of land-vehicle or boat, then I suppose I have no business going there. And I have a Mitsubishi , not a Toyota.



PS: If I could afford my own private jet, then I'll reconsider.

PPS: Next years vacation plan is S.America by way of motorbike. (Sweet)

 

[Jay H]

When I flew to France on an Airbus A-330(?) they had TVs on the back of each seat but the interactive stuff was still "under construction". They had some games that didn't impress me that much. That interactive quiz thing sounds like it would be a blast. Just wait til they setup an Xbox system link to all the seats!!

Airbus is a joint cooperative between EADS and BAE Systems (20%)

EADS being the European Aeronautic and Space Company and BAE Systems is formerly British Aeropace when it merged with GEC Marconi in the US.

There has been rumors/talk about a BAE Systems/Boeing merger because Boeing wants more european pressence and BAE Systems wants more NA presense but of course, BAE Systems owning a bit of Airbus is an obvious impasse. Of course, BAE Systems works with Boeing in many areas too, including the Joint Strike Fighter.


Jay

 

[Philip_G]

PS: If I could afford my own private jet, then I'll reconsider.

when you need a pilot for it, look me up

I flew to Frankfurt on an a340 and was much less than impressed. A bit of a rattletrap inside. I'm going to the UK in Feb. on a BA 777, even in economy on the 777 vs business on the 340, I think it will be a better flight.

 

[David Von Pein]

I always loved watching the 747SP's like the one referenced in the Braniff link above. It always looked to me like a kid that stopped growing. Don't really see them much anymore. Most of the remaining ones are in service with airlines in the Middle East.

Yes. Too bad we don't see them much in the USA anymore. :frowning:

It appears that 'Iran Air' is the carrier that has the most "Baby '47s" in service
at the moment (4 craft).

Who loves the Boeing 757 twin-jet? Great-looking plane. Never been on one; but I'm told
the take-off in one is akin to a rocket "blast-off" (well, somewhat anyway ). Super steep climb-out after t/o.

The 757-300 reminds me of a 'pencil with 10 wheels'.

 

[Philip_G]

757 is a great airplane. NWA came and spoke to some classes of mine in college and love their 757s, it's a very cheap aircraft for them to operate. The commonly run a 75 on longer domestic hauls, MSP to PDX is one, I'm sure there's a million though. Supposed to be a nasty one to land behind, but I never have luckily.

 

[Jason_Els]

Please let me know how your Camry does on your way to Korea, or Europe, or South America, or any of the other wonderful places you can't get to by driving.

You can get to these places by ship. It's not convenient but it's not all that hard to do.

I still do not like the idea of crossing large bodies of water with only two engines. That bothers me more than anything else. To me there is nothing like standing in a waiting area and seeing a 747 with four RR engines waiting to take you up. I find it reassuring.