Blueprint 1803 applications!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Brian Bunge, Oct 30, 2001.

  1. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    OK, Jack suggested and I agree that we should start a new thread specifically about this driver and possible applications for it.
    Jack and I both received ours yesterday and I think I can speak for Jack when I say we are quite impressed with the build quality and massive size! We have discussed several applications in the past and everyone seems to agree that this monster was born to be used with a Linkwitz Transform Circuit. It has the necessary Xmax (25.86mm) and power handling (1000W!) to make this more than just feasible.
    My current design is a 4ft^3 enclosure (assuming 5ft^3 stuffed). This design before adding stuffing yields an Fsc of 46.56Hz and a Qtc of .68. The transformed design has an Fsc of 18Hz and a Qtc of .5. Group delay maxes out right around 6ms at 34Hz and drops below that as we go down in frequency. The F3 is around 27Hz with an F6 around 19Hz. Both of these are anechoic, which means response should be even flatter in-room. The downside is a need for about 2.5KW around 10Hz but I doubt that I will have much 10Hz material and if I do I doubt it will be for more than a few seconds. I don't actually hit 2KW until 15Hz and I never get close to Xmax until 10Hz.
    Jack had a bit of a different alignment which I believe was 7ft^3 (9ft^3 stuffed) and I believe an Fsc of 13Hz and Qtc of .5. I'll let him give all the specifics and correct me if I'm wrong.
    There's also been talk of a ported enclosure. Jack mentioned 14ft^3 with an 8" port. Don't remember the tuning but the word that sticks out in my mind is "ungodly". I'm assuming we're talking well above reference with less than 1000W.
    So that's what I've got from many of our conversations. If anyone else has one of these monsters please share how you intend to use it. Also, feel free to ask any questions or point out any inaccuracies. I'll continue to play with the LT alignments until I find what I feel will give me the best performance for my space limitations. Otherwise, that ported enclosure sounds menacing!
    Brian
     
  2. James W. Johnson

    James W. Johnson Screenwriter

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    Well I have been thinking about how I would like to have a 30cuft box look and I have come up with this...I would appreciate any critical advise now because boxes like this are very expensive to build...my 'Big Pig' cost me over $500 for the box alone.
    4'9" Tall x 4'3" deep x 2'3" wide ,All 1.5" of Baltic Birch
    Total ID will be 36cuft...so that leaves me 6cuft for bracing , vent and drivers.
    Drivers and port will face forward and for the port I want to use a square port and use the side walls of the box as sides of the port then all I have to do is cut a sqare port hole and install a top and bottom for the port.
    So the port will be 24" Wide ID and I am considering 6" high
    and a 17Hz tuning so it will be about 32" deep.
    The port will be very sturdy since it will be integrated into the box.
     
  3. James W. Johnson

    James W. Johnson Screenwriter

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    I forgot to add that the port will even act as an additional brace to the box... I also did not figure out what volume the port will take up almost 3.5cuft! so I will need to make the box 5'3" tall instead of 4'9"....then I will have 40cuft to work with on the inside...
    40cuft minus about 4cuft for port and drivers leaves me 6cuft for bracing.
    (edit: I just realized that I can't go 5'3" tall because Baltic Birch comes in 5x5 pieces....so actually I could save myself some work and make it so the side walls are 5x5 exactly so I could go 5'x5'x2'3" which would give be about 45cuft inside to work with....at this point I can probably get 35cuft worth of usable space after port, drivers and bracing. This sub will be a few feet deeper than the Big Pig all the other dimensions will be nearly the same....the Pig is 60"tallx26.5"widex38"deep)
    I am excited now!...I remember how much fun it was to come home from work in the evening and work on my Big Pig subwoofer...some nights I would start working on it right after I got home from work until midnight.
    What should I call this one?
    [Edited last by James W. Johnson on October 30, 2001 at 11:24 AM]
     
  4. Hank Frankenberg

    Hank Frankenberg Cinematographer

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    Have you guys seriously considered getting professional help to get you back to normal? I'm sure your wives would sign any necessary papers.
    Post results graphs [​IMG]
    ------------------
    "Do you expect me to talk?"
    "No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!"
     
  5. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Hank,
    I think my wife gave up on that when I spent almost $6K last year getting progressive scan DVD, 53" HDTV setup, etc. You should have seen her face the day I pulled into the Guitar Center parking lot! I told her that I was looking at amps for a new subwoofer I was thinking about building. The look was priceless!
    Well, I went back and redid the LT using 5ft^3 (included the stuffing this time) and it looks like I can lower my power requirements a bit. I only need 2KW at 10Hz now! [​IMG]
    Brian
     
  6. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

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    quote: Have you guys seriously considered getting professional help to get you back to normal? I'm sure your wives would sign any necessary papers.[/quote]
    Correct about my wife, I spent all the money we had put aside for treatment,though. She thought she had won when I stopped buying guitars. [​IMG] Seriously, I would never spend $800 for a driver, which is what a comparable driver might cost, but this one looked so good and was so cheap, I had to take the plunge. Just looking at the thing on my floor, it really seems like a steal at the price.Do I need it? Do I have time for this thing right now? Do I even need such a thing in my room? Hell no.
    Anyway, I had tossed around two ideas for the 1803, both of which would be astounding. One is the Linkwitz transform. I figured 7-9 ft^3 would be a manageable box, but wouldn't need nearly as much power as a much smaller box. With all the displacement available (and that's just considering "linear" Vd, this motor's probably useful well beyond Xmax), you can choose just about any Fc you'd like, even 10Hz looks do-able with enough amp. If I go this way, I might opt to use the http://www.marchandelec.com/wm8.htm
    [Edited last by Jack Gilvey on October 30, 2001 at 03:19 PM]
     
  7. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Jack or anyone else getting a Marchand bassis
    If you get a bassis be sure to buy 2 extra 0.039mf caps (I can't remember if they are C1 or C2) The stock 'Speaker Resonance Control' range is to high, (30Hz-130Hz). Doubling up on these caps (two 0.039mf paralleled = one 0.078mf) cuts the selector range in 1/2, (15Hz-65Hz). This is perfect for the new generation of subwoofers. There are plenty of spare holes in the PCB so the extra caps can just be stacked beside the stock ones.
     
  8. Bob Sorel

    Bob Sorel Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi guys!
    I'm glad to see people getting excited about the prospect of using a high quality driver like the 1803 [​IMG]
    Since I own 3 of the popular 15" drivers around, I thought I might just give a quick "visual impression" rating (and it is "apples to apples", since they are all the same size):
    1. Adire Tempest - very nice driver, well made, and a real steal at $140! Can't be beat in its class.
    2. Blueprint 1503 - hefty, heavy, very, very good build quality, and at $225, another incredible bargain!
    3. Stryke HE 15 - "Oh my God! I have never seen anything like that!"
    As you guys now know, pictures just don't do these drivers justice. You have to experience them in person to really understand. Now the best is yet to come - wait until you hear them! As Captain Beefheart once said, "You got religion now, boy!" I will be waiting in the wings to share in the cries of joy that will soon be coming from this forum [​IMG]
    [Edited last by Bob Sorel on October 30, 2001 at 04:57 PM]
     
  9. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    James,
    "What should I call this one?"
    Solid Rocket Boosters? [​IMG]
    The BASSIS unit does look interesting. I'd rather buy the completed unit, but for a difference of $150 I might be tempted to break out the soldering iron! God, I hate soldering! Reminds me of that year at Scientific Atlanta!
    Brian
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  10. Randy G

    Randy G Second Unit

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    Brian,
    Why don't you take a family photo and post it here...you, Kay, and the 1803.
    ------------------
     
  11. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

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    Thanks for the info. on the Bassis, Thomas. I remember discussing that with Phil Marchand a while ago, but I didn't recall it being so simple.
    Bob, this thing is really very impressive. It's so friggin' big, and really well built from what I can see. For the $225 pre-order, unbeatable. Even at $249, I can't think of anythinng close anywhere near the price. Now, the HE15 is pretty, if a driver can be such a thing (sure it can, right?), but this thing just looks serious.
    I've already had what I'd call "ultimate quality" bass in my room in the form of two Tempests in a Q=0.5 IB, but that didn't work out for a few reasons (one of which was the old plaster walls. [​IMG] )
    What I like about the 1803 is the prospect of "ultimate quantity". [​IMG] Of course, I expect it will sound astounding.
    Brian, you can order a completed Bassis in mono form for 2/3 the stereo price, if I recall correctly.
    ------------------
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    What are you guys each using to power the beast and how much did you spend on that power?
    ------------------
    Dustin
    [email protected]
    My Adire Tempest Sonosub
     
  13. Bob Sorel

    Bob Sorel Stunt Coordinator

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    Wow, Jack, your twin Tempest IB did that? I guess I did the right thing by putting my home theater in the basement, where I am surrounded by 12" thick concrete, heh? [​IMG]
    I am anxious to find out what alignments work out the best for the 1803's, and to find out what you guys think of the quality you get out of them. I suspect that you will be more impressed with the quality than you might think at this point. I heard an IB subwoofer made from 4 JBL 18" drivers (I don't know the model) recently, and to be honest with you, I really wasn't very impressed, but I don't know how much knowledge the guy had or how good the drivers were. I'm sure that you, Thomas, and Jon are much more knowledgeable and your IB's sound a lot better, but unfortunately you guys live pretty far and I won't get a chance to hear one done right.
    As far as my pair of 1503's, I am going to wait until ThomasW finishes his Krell MRS klone, and if it turns out as good as I suspect it will, then I will build one of those. If for some reason it doesn't work out, then I will build a pair of his AS15 klones. I have plenty of power, so I would like to keep the enclosures as small as possible.
    Oh, and by the way, as far as the the HE 15 is concerned, don't let its handsomely rugged good looks fool you...This driver is not just another "pretty face"....hehe.
     
  14. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Randy,
    "Why don't you take a family photo and post it here...you, Kay, and the 1803."
    The 1803 weighs a little over half as much as Kay! So I'm not sure whether to hold her or it. That reminds me. I saw a review thread in the hardware section where a guy was talking about his SVS 20-39 shipping weight being 60lbs. Well, the 1803 weighs 60lbs. shipped itself!
    I'm still overwhelmed by it's size! When I get finished building this thing I may have to put a sign on my front door stating those with heart conditions are advised against entering this home!
    Brian
     
  15. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Bob S.
    Progress on the MRS klone is slow since I been ill with some kind of crud for 3weeks. [​IMG] But am significantly improved now [​IMG]
    Also I don't know if the design is going to be 'better' than the AS-15. The MRS klone is part of my continuing search for a good 'mobile' sub; (you know, the military definition of mobile, can be moved given enough manpower and equipment).
    The MRS box is pretty small, so even with a TL circuit and parametric EQ it's possible it won't sound better than the AS-15. My goal is to get it as good. Now if by chance it's better, then I'll do back flips. [​IMG]
    I'll start a new thread when the prototype is operational.
     
  16. Vince Bray

    Vince Bray Stunt Coordinator

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    I found this which is interesting:
    http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/EQs/paramet.htm
    It's simple to add more channels, I think 3 would do it for sub duty, maybe just 2. The cost would be pretty low, with the pots needed being the most expensive part. It would work for eq duty pretty well I think, and it's very flexible. Have any of you tried building such a circuit?
    Vince
     
  17. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
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  18. James W. Johnson

    James W. Johnson Screenwriter

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    Now the best is yet to come - wait until you hear them! As Captain Beefheart once said, "You got religion now, boy!" I will be waiting in the wings to share in the cries of joy that will soon be coming from this forum
    >>>>>>>
    I hope so Bob!
    What are you guys each using to power the beast and how much did you spend on that power?
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    I am going to use my Mackie M-1400 so I will only have 500watts going to each driver....I may find that I will need to get another one though.
    Also I don't know if the design is going to be 'better' than the AS-15. The MRS klone is part of my continuing search for a good 'mobile' sub; (you know, the military definition of mobile, can be moved given enough manpower and equipment).
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    So under the military definition my sub will be mobile too!
     
  19. Bob Sorel

    Bob Sorel Stunt Coordinator

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    quote: Its linear displacement approaches that of dual HE15's, and it's got a very impressive Xmech, so I'd expect it to be almost impossible to bottom.[/quote]
    Yup, that's what I figured, too. One single 18" driver the approximate equal of two HE 15's....now that's some serious output! I think you had better fix any cracks in the plaster before you run that sub [​IMG]
    Thomas, I knew you weren't feeling up to par lately, and I'm glad to know that you are feeling better now. When I feel like crap I lose all ambition on any projects I have going and just do what's necessary to start feeling good again. When the thought crosses my mind "Hey, I think I'll go work on my newest sub", that's when I realize that I am finally getting healthy.
    I will be watching for your posts on the MRS klone, as this project is of great interest to me. As I remember, the MRS was one of the smallest packages that was able to deliver absurd amounts of bass, and if you can successfully klone it, it just might work for that "mobile" high quality subwoofer that you are seeking to build. Now if it sounds as good or maybe even better than your AS15, I'll be building one for sure. Either way, I'll be building one of your projects, the MRS klone or a pair of AS15 klones, making the best use possible of the pair of 1503's I have here.
    [Edited last by Bob Sorel on October 31, 2001 at 12:01 PM]
     

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