Blueprint 1203 comapared to Mass 2012 (1 Viewer)

[ChristianT]

I am new to DIY and am very anxious to get started on my first Sonosub. I am going to order my single 12" driver this week, and I am having some trouble determining the differences between the Blueprint 1203 and the Mass 2012. When I compare the driver specs, it appears that different formulas are used to establish the values for measurements.
For example:
Mass 2012 Cms (mm/N)= .31
Blueprint Cms (uM/N)= 133.0
As stated before, I am new to DIY and would like to get a grasp on the different specifications used define a driver. If someone could point me to some data on driver measurements I would appreciate it. In the meantime, I would still like to purchase my driver this week. If one (or more) of the many experts I have seen post on this forum would take the time to compare the specs of these two drivers, comment on the differences of the specs, and note the most significant numbers used to compare drivers, I would really appreciate it. Opinions would be appreciated, though I understand that some people are going to be hesitant to make firm recommendations. The specs are as follows matched up as best as I can (using the single vc 2012 since I believe the 1203 is svc):
Blueprint 1203 Mass 2012
Fs = 29.3 Hz Fs = 23 Hz
Re = 3.6 Ohms Re VC (ohms) 3.0
Qms = 7.20 Qms = 6.4
Qes = 0.30 Qes = .52
Qts = 0.29 Qts = .48
Cms = 133.0 uM/N Cms = .31 mm/N
Mms = 220.0 grams Mmd = 158 grams
Sd = 486.0 cmsq Sd (Sq.In./Sq.M) 77/.051
Vas = 44.80 liters Vas (Cu. ft./L) 3.3’ / 91 L
SPL = 87.60 dB SPL (2.83V/1m) 89 dB
X-max = 45mm p-p X-max (one-way) 20.7 mm /.82”
Power = 1000+ watts Continuous Power (RMS) 600 Watts
Thanks in advance for your help.
Christian

 

[Julian Data]

Christian:
Before jumping the gun, I would wait for BP to get their driver's DUMAX'd.
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[James W. Johnson]

Before jumping the gun, I would wait for BP to get their driver's DUMAX'd.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Julian, when will this be happening?, because this driver has my full attention...... Link Removed
Fs = 25.0 Hz
Re = 3.6 Ohms
Qms = 7.22
Qes = 0.38
Qts = 0.35
Cms = 130.0 uM/N
Mms = 300.0 grams
Sd = 1217.0 cmsq
Vas = 279.4 liters
SPL = 92.1 dB
X-max = 45mm p-p
Power = 1000+ watts
[Edited last by James W. Johnson on August 17, 2001 at 09:42 AM]

 

[Patrick Sun]

Off the PE board, it doesn't appear they'll go for DUMAX testing because it cost money, which would be passed down to the consumer, blah blah blah.
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PatCave; HT Pix; Gear; DIY Mains; DIY CC; Sunosub I + II + III; DVDs; Link Removed

 

[Jack Gilvey]

James, I was wondering when you'd smell that one.
Rick C. and I have been having some fun with prospective alignments for it over on the PE board. Assuming the specs are accurate (who knows?), the numbers are just silly.
I would like to see some Dumax numbers myself, of course. I don't know what Blueprint's official position is on it, but Rick is the one who had made the point about the Dumax cost being passed on to consumers. At the price of the 1803 ($229 pre-order), I might just take a chance. If it's even close, it's still the best I've seen. The lowish vas is what makes it for me, I can fit 2 of them in my IB.

 

[DanWiggins]

Just thought I'd interject... DLC Designs charges $100 to DUMAX a driver. With shipping, it cost us under $150 to DUMAX each model of our drivers.
Expensive testing is done by Klippel, in Germany. $600 plus shipping both ways, but you get some serious data (not just BL/Cms curves, but distortion components from BL/Le/Cms nonlinearities, power compression effects, etc.)
Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio
[Edited last by DanWiggins on August 17, 2001 at 10:33 AM]

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Maybe we could chip-in and get one Dumaxed...

 

[Mark Hayenga]

I'll pony up $20 for a DUMAX test on any 03 series driver.
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Mark Hayenga
www.hayenga.com
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"My standards are so high, most of them are double."

 

[Fred Seger]

Good idea Jack. If your serious, I'm in.

 

[Patrick Sun]

Maybe it's just me, but I would think it would behoove anyone that's serious about supplying kick-butt sub drivers to the DIY community to get their quoted spec's documented/DUMAX'd (and the cost is not that exhorbitant, as DanW as stated above).
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PatCave ; HT Pix ; Gear ; DIY Mains ; DIY CC ; Sunosub I + II + III ; DVDs ; Link Removed
[Edited last by Patrick Sun on August 17, 2001 at 12:26 PM]

 

[Jack Gilvey]

I'd tend to agree, Pat, I thought the cost of testing was quite high.
Do we know for a fact that the drivers will not be tested, or just that they apparently have not? I don't know much about the drivers or the company, really.

 

[Seungsoo Hwang]

How long is that 1803 pre-order going to last, and what will the price increase to?

 

[Jack Gilvey]

As far as I know, 8/31. The regular price is just $249, though.

 

[James W. Johnson]

Maybe it's just me, but I would think it would behoove anyone that's serious about supplying kick-butt sub drivers to the DIY community to get their quoted spec's documented/DUMAX'd (and the cost is not that exhorbitant, as DanW as stated above).
>>>>>>>>>>>
Its enough reason for me not to purchase any of these drivers.
Until they are Dumaxed I will not buy one, but if they Dumaxed out anywhere near the stated specs I would jump on several of them.
Jack,
I'd chip in $20 for a Dumax test on the 18"er, who want to give up their driver for testing?
We only need 5 people to chip in and whoever owns the driver can handle the shipping costs.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Maybe if we all e-mail our desire to see some Dumax results? It's the manufacturer's responsibility, after all. And I still don't know if they've been sent for testing or not.

 

[Rick Chwiendacz]

Dan: first off, thanks for coming in and laying it down like it is. We all appreciate the help you give to the DIY community. I'm actually amazed that Dumax testing is that cheap. For the record, my posts on the PE board about not having Dumax testing due to cost issues was just speculation. I haven't heard any word from Pat either way. Sorry if I mislead anyone.
I must say though, for only $100, there really is no reason not to have your drivers DUMAX tested. DLC designs does the driver manufacturers a great service and for cheap, too.
Btw Dan - is there any reason why your Dumax test sheets for your drivers isn't anywhere on your website or in your white papers? Considering you spent the money to get them tested, it would be nice if us DIYers could have a look at them, if only for the BL vs. X and Cms vs. X graphs and the suspension/magnetic centering data. I like the fact that PE has posted some for their drivers - it's a big help.
I must admit though, the specs for the BPD1803 are just sickening. And at the price, I'm looking at perhaps two of them in the near future. Not to start a war again like last time, but do any people with real experience designing drivers (not to name names or anything) have any thoughts or opinions about the BPD drivers?
- Rick

 

[Jack Gilvey]

I didn't find anything misleading about your post, Rick, it wasn't presented as from Blueprint, I don't think.
And I don't remember a "war" , just the same points made over the same thing, Dumax. For $100, if just to satisfy consumer's understandable desire for impartial third-party testing, it seems a no-brainer.
Indeed, the specs are amazing. This looks like a TC sounds driver, no, at least the frame does? Dan Marx mentionned this a while ago.
[Edited last by Jack Gilvey on August 18, 2001 at 06:10 AM]

 

[James W. Johnson]

Pat Morrissey from BP sent me this e-mail....
James,
The 1803 drivers are not yet available. We will gladly ship one out to have it Dumaxed when we have our first batch finished. We are awaiting the spiders an spacer plates before production begins.
We should be ready to ship in 4-6 weeks. I will ship a production sample off then.
Cheers,
Pat

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Thanks, James, that's all we needed to know.

 

[James W. Johnson]

Jack, what would one way xmas be? Specs state 45mm point to point.