Blu-rays With Missing Elements in the Primary Audio Track

Bryan Tuck

Screenwriter
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Messages
1,785
Real Name
Bryan Tuck
There was a thread for Blu-rays with missing original mono tracks, but I wanted to see if we could put together a list of Blu-rays in which dialogue, music, or effects have been dropped, significantly altered, or even added on the primary audio track.


For example, on the BD for The Last Starfighter, a specific music cue is conspicuously absent during the scene in which Beta first reveals his half-formed face. Not poorly mixed, not de-emphasized, just plain gone.


Another example would be The Dark Crystal, in which several instances of incidental dialogue have actually been added to the soundtrack. I guess it's possible that these lines were present in the 70mm mix, but I am confident that they were not in the theatrical 35mm mix.


A word on differences between 70mm and 35mm mixes: I'm sure others could comment more definitively on this, but from what I've read, it's always debatable whether or not a 6-track 70mm mix from the 70s or 80s should be considered "definitive," as often sound mixers would make some final adjustments to the 2-channel 35mm version and would then consider it to be the "final" mix. At any rate, if there is some question over that, I'll note it in the list.


Also, I think this list should be limited to tracks with significant subtractions from or additions to the actual audio elements. If it's just a basic remix, even with possibly a different balance of the elements, but with no noticeable missing or added dialogue, music, or effects, it doesn't count. Also, if the original mix (or something resembling it) is available on BD, I'll make a note of that as well.


I know this is kind of nit-picky, but it seems to happen quite a bit, and it constitutes a genuine alteration to a film on the "version of record," at least as far as the general public is concerned. And this is going to be mostly US releases, but if there are some significant problems on releases from other countries, we can definitely include those, too.


A final note: Films such as The Exorcist or the Star Wars films were given significant audio overhauls for their "Special Edition" releases. However, since the films have been so heavily altered both visually and aurally, they kind of go without saying, so I haven't included them. However, E.T. has been included, since the Blu-ray seems to primarily use the 2002 Special Edition mix on the otherwise original cut of the film.


Please feel free to correct any misinformation here.


------------------------------------------


AN AMERICAN TAIL - When Fievel meets the orphaned mice, two of them have completely different voices than in the original version (possibly an older dialogue element than was used for the final mix of the film). Additional sound effects, dialogue, and "walla" are added throughout. End credits music is edited differently ("Somewhere Out There" starts later, and the violin solo near the end is removed).


ANNIE (1982) - In the alley where Annie finds Sandy, Annie punches a boy multiple times in the stomach and he grunts. Grunts are missing on the Blu-ray.


BACK TO THE FUTURE - Doc's line when he first sees Marty ("You made it!") is apparently from a different audio take than in previous versions. On the VHS/laserdisc, he practically shouts the line; on the DVD/Blu-ray, it's more subdued. (This could possibly be a difference between the original 70mm and 35mm sound mixes).


BACK TO THE FUTURE PART II - Strickland's shotgun sounds like a different effect than in original mix.


A CHRISTMAS CAROL (1951) - During the scene between Mrs. Dilber and old Joe (Christmas Yet-To-Come), the audio drops completely out for about a second, removing part of Mrs. Dilber's line (the words "for reaching it out" are gone). The full line can faintly be heard on both commentary tracks.


CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND (1980 SPECIAL EDITION) - In the opening scene, while the project leader is looking in the cockpit of the recovered plane, Laughlin's line "You! Listen to me, will ya?" is missing.


CONAN THE BARBARIAN (1982) - Missing choral elements in score during opening attack scene


THE DARK CRYSTAL - Extra dialogue in several places throughout. (Ex: The line, "Oh, it will make you young again, Sire," is extended to include "...and as Emperor you deserve it." Possibly heard in 70mm mix, or could be from an older dialogue element, but definitely not in the theatrical 35mm mix.)


E.T.: THE EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL - 7.1 track appears to be sourced primarily from the 2002 Special Edition, with added sound effects in certain spots (which now don't correspond to anything). Most noticeable is the altered sound design and different ADR during the first medical scene. 2.0 track on the BD appears to be the original mix.


ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK - In the 5.1 remix, the music drops out for a few seconds after Snake pulls the President off the train (about an hour in). Music has been added to the Broadway scene. Sound effects are missing in the last shot as Snake destroys the cassette. Original mix included on MGM BD, but Scream Factory's 2.0 track is a downmix of the 5.1.


GOLDFINGER - On the "original" mono track, the end credits music fades out before the final drum hit that ends the song. (This is a bit of a cheat, as the "primary" 5.1 track does play the song out.)


GREASE - 5.1 track sourced from the 1998 remix with numerous changes throughout, including awkward music edits and the addition of reverb and background vocals to some songs (some of which are out-of-sync with picture).


THE GREAT MUPPET CAPER - Some minor differences during "Happiness Hotel," lyrics added to "Night Life," Muppets' "checklist" scene scored differently, and most noticeably, Miss Piggy's trademark "Hi-yaaaah" as she crashes through the window and leaps off the motorcycle is missing. (I think these changes have been on every VHS, DVD, and Blu-ray since the 1993 VHS release).


HALLOWEEN (1978) - During first Loomis scene, extra thunderclaps and rain are added throughout. Original mix included on some BDs (mono track on 35th Anniversary Edition is a mislabeled downmix of the remix; corrected on box set version).


HALLOWEEN 4: THE RETURN OF MICHAEL MYERS - Several sound effects are missing. Thunderclaps during opening credits, door buzzer sound in following scene, among others.


THE HOBBIT (1977) - (DVD only) Numerous sound effects are inexplicably missing throughout. (This is another cheat, since it's only on DVD, but the error is so glaring, it's worth listing.) Recent "Deluxe" DVD edition has the same issue.


JAWS - New sound effects added throughout the film. Original mix included on BD.


THE LAST STARFIGHTER - Music cue during the reveal of Beta's half-formed face is completely missing (it can be heard on the commentary track). Music cue could have been missing in 70mm mix, but seems unlikely.


LEGEND (US VERSION) - Missing music cue after Darkness's line "Something troubles me." Rough sound editing during transition into following scene (could be reflecting the 70mm mix).


MAD MAX - On the 5.1 "Australian English" track, when Max starts dragging Johnny by his handcuffed ankle, some of Johnny's groans are heard a few seconds later than they were originally, and his line "Careful, my ankle! My foot, man!" is missing. "Original Theatrical Australian English Mono" track on MGM Blu-ray is apparently a downmix of the 5.1 remix. 2.0 track on Scream Factory BD is a stereo downmix of the 5.1 remix. It's unclear if the MGM SE DVD contains the actual original Australian mono, as Johnny's line is there, but some of the sound effects seem to be from the remix and others seem to be from the original.


PINOCCHIO - A couple of lines were missing from the song "Give a Little Whistle" on both the 5.1 and the "original" mono. Corrected on later pressings.


PSYCHO (1960) - Some newly recorded foley in certain scenes, particularly in the shower scene, and also in the basement scene near the end. Original mix included on BD.


ROCKY - Near the end, the piano cue at the end of the final round (during the lines "Ain't gonna be no rematch," "Don't want one.") is missing. Original mix included on BD.


STAR TREK - THE ORIGINAL SERIES (Ep. "The Devil in the Dark") - About 28 minutes in, as Kirk sees the Horta coming through the wall, a few seconds of music is missing on both the 7.1 and "original" mono tracks. (Ep. "The Menagerie, Part II") - When Pike has a vision of himself on Rigel 7, in front the castle, extra music is heard on the 7.1 track that wasn't there before. Music on the mono track is as it always was before.

STAR TREK III: THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK - As the Bird of Prey is flying away from the Genesis Planet, a loud "cracking" sound as part of the planet breaks away is missing, and has been since the DVD releases. The effect can be heard underneath the Nimoy/Bennett commentary, but not the Moore/Taylor commentary. (This could be another 35mm/70mm difference.)

SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE - New sound effects added throughout the film. Original mix included on theatrical version BD, though possibly incorrectly encoded.


THE TERMINATOR - New sound effects added throughout the film, and some music cues are mixed differently.


THE TIME MACHINE (1960) - When George stops in 1917, as he's looking at the dust on his clocks, the creak just before we see the mice is much quieter than it was before. (According to IMDB, there was a 4-track stereo mix for this film in addition to the mono, so the difference could date back to that.)


THE WIZARD OF OZ - Dorothy's stutter "Oh Tot- Oh Toto" is truncated on both the 5.1 and the "original" mono. (This was possibly an error in the original sound design, but the fix is still an alteration.)


YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE - Numerous sound affects are added throughout the film. Original mix included on BD.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Brent Reid

Brent Reid

Supporting Actor
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Messages
799
Location
Nottingham, UK
Real Name
Brent
This could be a helluva long list. You wanna include the plethora of Eastern martial arts that have only seen BD release in their 'westernised' versions, including sans original soundtrack altogether? For instance, Ong-Bak (2003) is only available in its western cut which is edited by five minutes and has the entire original Thai score replaced with a French hip hop score - crazy!


I'd suggest to avoid confusion you should clarify in your list exactly which mix you're referring to in each example, for instance whether the mono mix or the 5.1 or 7.1 remixes. For example:
  • "JAWS - New sound effects added throughout the film [7.1 remix]. Original [mono] mix included on theatrical version BD."
By the way, have you a non-theatrical version BD denied the rest of us? We should be told! ;)


Have searched within these forums but can't find the answer, so can someone please tell me exactly how to discern the difference between the faulty and corrected Pinnochio BDs?
 

Matt Hough

Director
Reviewer
Joined
Apr 24, 2006
Messages
22,034
Location
Charlotte, NC
Real Name
Matt Hough
Expect Joe Caps to remind us that Maria's apron slap during the opening title song is missing on the lossless English audio track of The Sound of Music.
 

MatthewA

Lead Actor
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2000
Messages
9,067
Location
Salinas, CA
Real Name
Matthew
Brenty said:
Have searched within these forums but can't find the answer, so can someone please tell me exactly how to discern the difference between the faulty and corrected Pinnochio BDs?
During the song "Give a Little Whistle," these lyrics are sung:
Jiminy: And if your whistle's weak, yell...Pinocchio: Jiminy Cricket!Jiminy: Right!
Jiminy saying "right!" was left off the uncorrected BD. That was the only thing missing, but it's back now.

Two others:

ANNIE (1982): In the alley where Annie finds Sandy, Annie punches a boy multiple times in the stomach and he grunts. Those grunts are not on the Blu-ray but were on every home video version before it.

THE MUPPET MOVIE (1979): The German track has a different orchestral arrangement for "Never Before, Never Again" and extended end credits music.
 

Bryan Tuck

Screenwriter
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Messages
1,785
Real Name
Bryan Tuck
Brenty said:
This could be a helluva long list. You wanna include the plethora of Eastern martial arts that have only seen BD release in their 'westernised' versions, including sans original soundtrack altogether? For instance, Ong-Bak (2003) is only available in its western cut which is edited by five minutes and has the entire original Thai score replaced with a French hip hop score - crazy!
Good point, but I think I'm going to limit it to original language tracks for original versions. I thought about including Anchor Bay's "25th Anniversary Edition" of Ghost in the Shell, which is missing a number of sound effects from the English dub (that were there before). However, the Japanese track seems fine (though the subtitles' accuracy is apparently debatable).

Brenty said:
I'd suggest to avoid confusion you should clarify in your list exactly which mix you're referring to in each example, for instance whether the mono mix or the 5.1 or 7.1 remixes.

For example:
"JAWS - New sound effects added throughout the film [7.1 remix]. Original [mono] mix included on theatrical version BD."
By the way, have you a non-theatrical version BD denied the rest of us? We should be told! ;)
I guess that's what I mean by "primary" audio track. I made an exception for Goldfinger, since that's such a strange anomaly. On Jaws, the 7.1 is the default track, but the mono mix is there. As for "theatrical version," that was meant for Superman; sorry :) Fixed.

Matt Hough said:
Expect Joe Caps to remind us that Maria's apron slap during the opening title song is missing on the lossless English audio track of The Sound of Music.
Do you know if the 4.0 is a more-or-less accurate representation of the original 4-track mag mix?

Douglas R said:
My main bugbear is the centring of stereo dialogue instead of retaining directionality, as happens more often than not.
I thought about that, too, but we really would be here forever if we included those. Like I said, this is just for missing or added elements, not necessarily re-arranged elements. Different issue, IMO.

MatthewA said:
ANNIE (1982): In the alley where Annie finds Sandy, Annie punches a boy multiple times in the stomach and he grunts. Those grunts are not on the Blu-ray but were on every home video version before it.


THE MUPPET MOVIE (1979): The German track has a different orchestral arrangement for "Never Before, Never Again" and extended end credits music.
I'll add Annie, but like I said above, I think I'm going to stick with original language tracks. Besides, was the German dub of The Muppet Movie always like that, or was it something that was introduced on the Blu-ray?
 

Brent Reid

Supporting Actor
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Messages
799
Location
Nottingham, UK
Real Name
Brent
Thanks for the answer MatthewA, but I haven't bought it yet and don't intend to keep buying copies until I get the correct one... :angry:

What I mean is if, for instance, I was considering bidding on a copy on eBay, what would I ask the seller to check for; is there a visible disc or packaging difference? Anyone?
 

moviebuff75

Supporting Actor
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
864
Location
Indianapolis, Indiana
Real Name
Eric Scott Richard
The Wizard of Oz: Dorothy's complete line when Miss Gulch is taking Toto is missing. Original line: "Oh, Toto! Don't..." Additional chicken sounds added, overwhelming the dialogue. Later in the film, a meter change was made on the track.

Home Alone 2: Some differences in the 5.1 & 2.0 tracks.
 

Dave MJ

Second Unit
Joined
Feb 26, 2001
Messages
268
Grease (1978) - the entire soundtrack was badly remixed in 1998 with many added and missing bits of music and sound effects. There are far too many changes and errors to list. The original soundtrack has not been available on any release since 1998.

The Hobbit (1977) - not available on blu-ray but the DVD is missing dozens of sound effects and bits of dialogue. There are also mixing errors and a few added bits of dialogue. It could be a temp mix which was used by mistake. This track has been used on all releases since 2001 despite many complaints by fans to WB.

Psycho (1960) - the 5.1 track has many added and changed sound effects. Most notable are newly recorded modern sounding effects in the shower scene (why they would mess with that scene I have no idea). New sounds are also added in many other places, some foley is missing altogether and the music/effects balance is changed. Fortunately the original mono track is included in good quality.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brent Reid

Brent Reid

Supporting Actor
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Messages
799
Location
Nottingham, UK
Real Name
Brent
Interesting about Psycho, Dave, ta. The BD reviews uniformly praised the 5.1 remix and I don't recall any dissenting voices of concern about its overt alteration.
Just found this though:
The quote "We dug a little bit deeper than restoration..." is a gross understatement and just about sums it up.

In principle I've no objection to this practice as long there is full disclosure about what's been changed and, as I said in the aforementioned thread, the original soundtrack is always included. Heck, I don't even object to colorization, as long as the original is included!

My point is that I believe such revisionism is easily the equal of colorization. Yet, whereas mere mention of that practice is usually enough to bring forth the screaming hordes, people don't generally react nearly as virulently when it comes to 'audio colorization'... :(

As for Grease, I'd love to hear the OST but I'm assuming it's never been released on any DVD?
 
Last edited:

Bryan Tuck

Screenwriter
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Messages
1,785
Real Name
Bryan Tuck
moviebuff75 said:
The Wizard of Oz: Dorothy's complete line when Miss Gulch is taking Toto is missing. Original line: "Oh, Toto! Don't..." Additional chicken sounds added, overwhelming the dialogue. Later in the film, a meter change was made on the track.

Home Alone 2: Some differences in the 5.1 & 2.0 tracks.
Yeah, I'll add The Wizard of Oz. I honestly think that was an error originally, but removing it is still a change (and I still wish they hadn't removed the snake reflection in Raiders of the Lost Ark).

Do you know any specifics on Home Alone 2, and which one more accurately reflects the original?

Dave MJ said:
Grease (1978) - the entire soundtrack was badly remixed in 1998 with many added and missing bits of music and sound effects. There are far too many changes and errors to list. The original soundtrack has not been available on any release since 1998.

The Hobbit (1977) - not available on blu-ray but the DVD is missing dozens of sound effects and bits of dialogue. There are also mixing errors and a few added bits of dialogue. It could be a temp mix which was used by mistake. This track has been used on all releases since 2001 despite many complaints by fans to WB.

Psycho (1960) - the 5.1 track has many added and changed sound effects. Most notable are newly recorded modern sounding effects in the shower scene (why they would mess with that scene I have no idea). New sounds are also added in many other places, some foley is missing altogether and the music/effects balance is changed. Fortunately the original mono track is included in good quality.
I've never been that familiar with Grease (only seen it once or twice), but I've read many places online about the remixed sound.

I was going to make this a Blu-ray-only list, but I'll make an exception for The Hobbit, as it's such a glaring error, and it's disappointing that it hasn't even been acknowledged by the studio, much less fixed.

Adding Psycho, too.
 

Dave MJ

Second Unit
Joined
Feb 26, 2001
Messages
268
Brenty said:
Interesting about Psycho Dave, ta. The BD reviews uniformly praised the 5.1 remix and I don't recall any dissenting voices of concern about its overt alteration.
Just found this though:
https://www.editorsguild.com/FromTheGuild.cfm?FromTheGuildid=192
The quote "We dug a little bit deeper than restoration..." is a gross understatement and just about sums it up.

In principle I've no objection to this practice as long there is full disclosure about what's been changed and, as I said in the aforementioned http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/327687-original-mono-soundtracks-missing-on-blu-ray/ thread, the original soundtrack is always included. Heck, I don't even object to colorization, as long as the original is included!

My point is that I believe such revisionism is easily the equal of colorization. Yet, whereas mere mention of that practice is usually enough to bring forth the screaming hordes, people don't generally react nearly as virulently when it comes to 'audio colorization'... :(

As for Grease, I'd love to hear the OST but I'm assuming it's never been released on any DVD?
They added/changed quite a bit of sound in Psycho, and during famous key scenes, I'm surprised more people haven't complained. I am very familiar with the film, so that makes a difference. And the fact that the mono track is there makes it less of an issue. I do like the simulated 5.1 music, it's well done. I just wish they had kept the original effects. I had a comparison video up at one time on youtube that demonstrated some of the differences, I will try to re-upload and post a link.

The original Grease soundtrack has never been released on DVD. One of the DVDs has a stereo track, but it's a reduction of the 5.1 mix. The original soundtrack was on numerous VHS and laserdisc releases up until 1998. I have the laserdisc and a HiFi stereo VHS version. Both are rather compressed but VHS track has a bit more range. A HTF member made a DVD version matched up to the laserdisc soundtrack a number of years ago and that is the version I watch. It would be great to have a blu-ray version of that. The remix is really atrocious. Backing vocals are out of sync, there are sloppy music edits, foley is much too loud in places, weird percussion and backing vocals added during songs, dialogue missing, etc. It's really a mess.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brent Reid

Bryan Tuck

Screenwriter
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Messages
1,785
Real Name
Bryan Tuck
Dave MJ said:
They added/changed quite a bit of sound in Psycho, and during famous key scenes, I'm surprised more people haven't complained. I am very familiar with the film, so that makes a difference. And the fact that the mono track is there makes it less of an issue. I do like the simulated 5.1 music, it's well done. I just wish they had kept the original effects. I had a comparison video up at one time on youtube that demonstrated some of the differences, I will try to re-upload and post a link.
Maybe the presence of the mono track is why there haven't been more complaints. I know I always watch the film in mono, so I actually didn't know about all the new sound effects until Dave pointed it out in this thread.

As with others, I'm not a big fan of complete audio overhauls, but I don't really care as long as something resembling the original track is also included.

And there are some 5.1 "remixes" that are essentially just unmatrixed Dolby Surround tracks, which I also don't mind (not sure if "unmatrixed" is a word, but I figure everyone will know what I mean).
 

Mike Frezon

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Oct 9, 2001
Messages
53,717
Location
Rensselaer, NY
Bryan:

To add to your list: there are a few words missing in the Blu releases of A Christmas Carol (1951). The character Mrs. Dilber has the words "for reaching it out" oddly taken away from her during the scene when she and others meet to sell off Scrooge's worldly possessions.

It was reported in this HTF thread back in 2011.

==============

BTW, I'll see if I can get you permissions to be able to edit the original post.
 

youworkmen

Supporting Actor
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
603
Real Name
david
Star Trek TOS Season 1.
On The Devil In the Dark several seconds of music plays as the Horta exits the wall and appears to Kirk for the first time but that music is missing from both English tracks . It is present on the foreign tracks.

In The Menagerie Part 1 as Pike approaches the castle to relive a battle the remixed sound appears to have additional and incorrect music playing over the top of the original music . This music plays correctly on the mono track

You Only Live Twice has numerous additional sound effects added to the remix track . Fortunately the mono track is fine and none of the other films seem to have similar alterations bar one cats meow on Diamonds Are Forever . Levels between music and studio are also adjusted on some of the other remix tracks with mono being ok
 

Bryan Tuck

Screenwriter
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Messages
1,785
Real Name
Bryan Tuck
moviebuff75 said:
The line in Oz wasn't a mistake. She said "Oh, Toto. DON'T...." They kept the following: "o. Don't."
I dug out my '89 laserdisc, and it sounds to me like two takes of the same line, very awkwardly cut together: "Oh, Tot-Oh, Toto." It may have been intentional; but the edit is kind of sloppy, even for 1939. Was it different before the LD?

On the Blu-ray, it sounds like they've kept the first take and silenced the second one. Again, just what I'm hearing; I may be wrong.

Anyway, this is really nit-picky, but that's what this thread is for.
 
  • Like
Reactions: moviebuff75

Bryan Tuck

Screenwriter
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Messages
1,785
Real Name
Bryan Tuck
youworkmen said:
Star Trek TOS Season 1.
On The Devil In the Dark several seconds of music plays as the Horta exits the wall and appears to Kirk for the first time but that music is missing from both English tracks . It is present on the foreign tracks.

In The Menagerie Part 1 as Pike approaches the castle to relive a battle the remixed sound appears to have additional and incorrect music playing over the top of the original music . This music plays correctly on the mono track

You Only Live Twice has numerous additional sound effects added to the remix track . Fortunately the mono track is fine and none of the other films seem to have similar alterations bar one cats meow on Diamonds Are Forever . Levels between music and studio are also adjusted on some of the other remix tracks with mono being ok
Interesting about the Star Trek changes. In "Devil in the Dark," was that music always in the English version before?

I'd always read that several of the Connery Bond films were heavily remixed for DVD, but that they were toned down a bit for Blu-ray. From what I understand, Thunderball was the worst offender, but the 5.1 on the Blu-ray is closer to the original mix. (As usual, if the original track is on there, that's what I usually listen to, so I don't know for sure.) What are some of the added sound effects for You Only Live Twice?
 

Tommy R

Screenwriter
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
1,243
Real Name
Tommy
These two REALLY bug me for some reason, perhaps because they are my two favorite movies of all-time. They may seem small, but I would've LOVED an original mono track included with these:

Back to the Future - When Doc first meets up with Marty after getting out of the Delorean for his first shot of the film, he says: "Marty, YOU'VE MADE IT!" But on the blu-ray, and I think on the initial DVD too, Doc's voice is less yelling-like, and sounds like a more horse "Marty, you've made it."

The Time Machine - When George stops in 1917 and is checking out the dust on all his clocks, there's a sound of wood creaking or some bang behind him and it cuts to footage of mice crawling around holes in the wall. In the DVD and blu-ray the sound of the bang is turned way down and barely there, making it more of a light tap.
 

Forum Sponsors

Forum statistics

Threads
344,458
Messages
4,710,668
Members
141,274
Latest member
Bats8711