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Blu-ray music albums target replacement of SACD and DVD-Audio (1 Viewer)

Kevin Collins

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Remember the last audio format war, SACD vs. DVD-Audio? Unlike the video format war, neither format won because it required a new player and neither format had the support of all the labels. What won was a format that had worse audio qualities than CD, but was immensely more portable and obtainable --- MP3 (or any derivative) and the iPod.

Well the record studios are making another go at this and circumventing the need for a new player, new format or new gear. They are using Blu-ray to accomplish what SACD and DVD-Audio tried to do, but without the format war pretense.

While this whole push is starting out in the Europe, it should eventually wind up in the US. Nirvana's Nevermind and Amy Winehouse's Back To Black will be among the first records to be released in the format.

What is this "format" on Blu-ray? The new format, officially called Pure Audio, uses similar encoding techniques to SACD/DVD-Audio but has the support of all the major record labels from the outset.
Pioneered by Universal Music, it launched in France earlier this year, where the initial batch of 35 titles have already achieved sales of more than 500,000.

When will it come to the US? Don't know, but Warner Music and Sony have already released albums on Blu-Ray in France and Japan, while Universal plans to issue 200 albums in 14 countries "very quickly".

How is Pure Audio different than CD? Ordinary CDs have a sample rate of 44.1kHz. Each snapshot is captured to a certain degree of accuracy - there are 16 digital "bits" per sample, giving a range of 65,536 possible values.
Most of the albums released in the new Blu-Ray audio format are sampled at 96kHz (96,000 snapshots per second) at 24-bit resolution (giving 16,777,216 possible values).

Granted, this is still for a niche audience that is willing to buy and optical disc for music. The jury is pretty much out on optical disc music as CD sales have plummeted over the years in favor of MP3 and not with streaming audio. Eventually, the Pure Audio files could be distributed digitally themselves - but with a four-minute song needing 1GB of storage space it will be a while before technology affords the compression necessary to stream or the space to hold on a media device.

How many listen to audio optical disc? How many people own either DVD-Audio or SACD discs?
 

jcroy

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Kevin Collins said:
How many listen to audio optical disc? How many people own either DVD-Audio or SACD discs?
I only own one dvd-audio disc.

These days I rip an entire music cd to a single *.wav file, and listen to it on the computer or on the stereo system.


I would be somewhat skeptical of a bluray-audio format at first. It would have to sound very impressive for me to start buying my music collection again.
 

Traveling Matt

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Kevin Collins said:
How many listen to audio optical disc?
I mostly listen to MP3s nowadays, but will occasionally pop in a CD for the fun of it. I do insist, however, that my audio purchases - like my video purchases - be on a disc. No downloads for me. Having said that, though, I too am skeptical of not only how impressive a format such as this may be, but how viable it is to have yet another disc format out there.

Kevin, can you link to any articles discussing Pure Audio further?
 

Mike Frezon

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I own a slew of DVD-A discs and SACDs.

I even own an Audio only Blu-ray disc: Grrrr! The Rolling Stones Greatest Hits (imported via Amazon.uk.).

There is an entire sub-culture of like-minded people (many with much larger high-rez music collections than myself!) over in the Music sub-forum.

In fact, if people want to see some critical reviews of some of these new Blu-ray audio releases, check out the High-Rez Music thread. A number of other members have imported some of the music Blu discs which have been released overseas for months. The discussion starts HERE (back in May 2013).

front.jpg
 

jcroy

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The other big issue I have with post-cd formats like dvd-audio, sacd, bluray-audio, etc ... is that I have great doubts as to whether it will actually improve the stuff I regularly listen to.

The stuff I've been regularly listening to for many years, were largely produced by guys who were either totally incompetent and/or they did everything to deliberately make the recording sound like shit. (Sometimes both).
 

SilverWook

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Could they put music videos on these as extras? On screen cover art and liner notes perhaps?

Back in the 80's, Pioneer actually did a few Laserdisc relases that were a complete audio only album plus a video or two.
 

Towergrove

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Kevin Collins said:
Remember the last audio format war, SACD vs. DVD-Audio? Unlike the video format war, neither format won because it required a new player and neither format had the support of all the labels. What won was a format that had worse audio qualities than CD, but was immensely more portable and obtainable --- MP3 (or any derivative) and the iPod.

Well the record studios are making another go at this and circumventing the need for a new player, new format or new gear. They are using Blu-ray to accomplish what SACD and DVD-Audio tried to do, but without the format war pretense.

While this whole push is starting out in the Europe, it should eventually wind up in the US. Nirvana's Nevermind and Amy Winehouse's Back To Black will be among the first records to be released in the format.

What is this "format" on Blu-ray? The new format, officially called Pure Audio, uses similar encoding techniques to SACD/DVD-Audio but has the support of all the major record labels from the outset.
Pioneered by Universal Music, it launched in France earlier this year, where the initial batch of 35 titles have already achieved sales of more than 500,000.

When will it come to the US? Don't know, but Warner Music and Sony have already released albums on Blu-Ray in France and Japan, while Universal plans to issue 200 albums in 14 countries "very quickly".

How is Pure Audio different than CD? Ordinary CDs have a sample rate of 44.1kHz. Each snapshot is captured to a certain degree of accuracy - there are 16 digital "bits" per sample, giving a range of 65,536 possible values.
Most of the albums released in the new Blu-Ray audio format are sampled at 96kHz (96,000 snapshots per second) at 24-bit resolution (giving 16,777,216 possible values).

Granted, this is still for a niche audience that is willing to buy and optical disc for music. The jury is pretty much out on optical disc music as CD sales have plummeted over the years in favor of MP3 and not with streaming audio. Eventually, the Pure Audio files could be distributed digitally themselves - but with a four-minute song needing 1GB of storage space it will be a while before technology affords the compression necessary to stream or the space to hold on a media device.

How many listen to audio optical disc? How many people own either DVD-Audio or SACD discs?
I still listen to audio cds when Im in the mood. I would like to point out that while CD sales have gone down they still bring in quite a bit of $$$ for the industry. Not to be ignored by the studios.
 

Doug Pyle

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The Oppo universal players (Models 95 and 105) are designed nicely for audio, and are a great solution to the format wars. I have yet to purchase a music-only BD but pre-ordered Yes Close to the Edge to try it out. I have the Oppo BDP 95, and a large collection of SACD, about 3 DVD-A, and too many CDs to count.

I dislike the down-res sound of MP3 and only tolerate it in my car since the car thumb-drive audio player doesn't decode lossless files. Lossy music (like MP3) irritate me as much as pan-and-scan or zooming a movie to fit the dimension of the display. You are throwing out musical information for the convenience of smaller file size.

I don't care if the music is on a shiny disk or a thumb drive or hard drive. I have lots of discs, but I would download hi-rez files if online stores would better standardize information about music they have for downloading (what is the resolution, is it an upconversion from redbook, or from a true hi-rez source, etc.).

Of the disc-based formats, I prefer SACD so far but am interested to see how the blu-ray music format works out.
 

schan1269

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Music only BD is basically...duh.The core audio of BD is already DVD-A.Same great music(capacity) delivered in a form many, many, many more people own a player for.
 

jcroy

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Doug Pyle said:
(what is the resolution, is it an upconversion from redbook, or from a true hi-rez source, etc.).
For something that is just an upconversion from 16 bit 44.1 kHz sampling to a higher sampling frequency and more bits, that would be a complete waste of money.

For a post-cd format album, I would only be interested in sources where they went back to the original master tape and digitized it at a higher sampling frequency and more bits. (Assuming the original master tape is analog).
 

schan1269

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What?

"Assuming the original master tape is analog"

About 5 years into CD recording, Analog Tape died. (about the only artist using Analog Tape is Jack White. Assuming you know who that is...)

That is why CD are marked with A and D.

Almost everything since 1995(I don't care to look up the exact year) is at minimum DAA. Classical music, folk and jazz are almost exclusively DDD.
 

jcroy

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schan1269 said:
What?

"Assuming the original master tape is analog"

About 5 years into CD recording, Analog Tape died. (about the only artist using Analog Tape is Jack White. Assuming you know who that is...)

That is why CD are marked with A and D.

Almost everything since 1995(I don't care to look up the exact year) is at minimum DAA. Classical music, folk and jazz are almost exclusively DDD.
The stuff I listen to is largely from analog master tapes.

In some musical genres, analog tape was still commonly used well into the 1990's.

I don't listen to much stuff from the 1990's and 2000's.
 

schan1269

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So what if it is Analog Master Tape. You had(then) a choice of it...or nothing.

When CD first debuted it had warnings on it saying "may reveal the limitations of the master tape".

Then when mixing technology improved, many "originating albums" went back...again...to the master tapes and "re-master" was born.

Unlike SuperBits in DVD, re-masters in CD made sense.

These re-masters are what caused Sony to come up with DSD(DVD-A around the same time). Again, once digital technology caught up with what Analog had long been capable of, Analog Tape died.

What exactly do you listen to? Decrying what you listen to as "The stuff I've been regularly listening to for many years, were largely produced by guys who were either totally incompetent and/or they did everything to deliberately make the recording sound like shit. (Sometimes both)"

Has absolutely nothing...at all, to do with the format itself. Basically your argument "against" a better format is akin to...

"The original BD of Patton sucks...so all BDs suck."
 

jcroy

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schan1269 said:
What exactly do you listen to? Decrying what you listen to as "The stuff I've been regularly listening to for many years, were largely produced by guys who were either totally incompetent and/or they did everything to deliberately make the recording sound like shit. (Sometimes both)"
I listen to a lot of less popular metal and punk rock bands from the 1980's.
 

jcroy

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schan1269 said:
Has absolutely nothing...at all, to do with the format itself.
For sure.

What I'm saying is what comes out of the speakers is only as good as the original source material.

If the original recording sounded like total shit, it will most likely still sound like shit on a good modern stereo system.

Even playing around with a parametric equalizer to remove the annoying sounding "resonances" in a crappy recording, will not turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. Doing this is not much different than "polishing a turd".
 

jcroy

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schan1269 said:
Basically your argument "against" a better format is akin to...

"The original BD of Patton sucks...so all BDs suck."
That's your words. Not mine. :)
 

jcroy

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schan1269 said:
I suggest you start here...it is stunning...

https://www.lasercd.com/node/9004
I've had my eye on this title for awhile (and a few other metal blurays). Haven't got around to purchasing it yet.

These days such metal and punk rock bands have hired competent professional producers to record their albums, who specialize and actually care about that type of metal.

Back in the day in the 1980's, it was a completely different story. Too many incompetent producers and crappy recording engineers. Especially producers who had total contempt for the bands they were producing.
 

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