Blu-ray information on audio formats, hard coating, and release date (1 Viewer)

[Richard Paul]

Sony Corportaion of America's Mike Fidler, Senior Vice President of the Blu-ray Disc Group Division, has said in a interview with Widescreen Review that Dolby Digital will most likely be a requirement for pre-recorded Blu-ray. He said that DTS and other audio formats would be optional.

Mike Fidler also said that future Blu-ray players would use bare discs and that a hard coating will be implemented on future Blu-ray discs. Hard coating is quite simply a much harder kind of plastic than that currently used on CD's and DVD's. He also said that the Blu-ray recorders and discs in Japan came out before hard coating was implemented. So for better or worse it sounds as though all future Blu-ray products will be made for bare discs with a hard coating.

As for Blu-rays timeline Mike Fidler said that the specifications for BD-ROM (pre-recorded Blu-ray Disc) along with BD-R (write once Blu-ray Disc) will be completed by the end of the year. He also said that it would take 18 to 24 months of development time after the finished specification for shipping products to be released. Sony is expecting the first pre-recorded Blu-ray players to be released in the U.S. market by late 2005.

 

[Joseph Bolus]

Sony is expecting the first pre-recorded Blu-ray players to be released in the U.S. market by late 2005.

We'll still be waiting for the Original Star Wars Trilogy on DVD at that time!

 

[Philip Verdieck]

Well, George said he wanted to release it on HD-DVD

 

[Alistair_M]

Late 2005.

Isn't that also the time when the Sony Playstation 3 is rumoured to be released?

I wonder if the playstation 3 will be bluray prerecorded compatible? I think this is all part of Sony's plan to take over the 'living room' technology.

 

[Joseph Bolus]

Richard:

Has anybody confirmed that the first generation Blu-Ray players will also be able to play legacy DVD discs?

I know that I won't be the "first person on the block" to purchase one of these if I can't play my current DVD collection (Unless, of course, that's the only way to get the Original Star Wars Trilogy!)

 

[Richard Paul]

Mike Fidler said it won't be a requirement of the pre-recorded Blu-ray format. He also mentioned that the DVD format doesn't require CD playback and look how many DVD players play CD's. The decision to add DVD playback to Blu-ray players will be up to the individual manufacturer along with the ability to playback DVD+R/W and DVD-R/W.

Another thing Mike Fidler said that was interesting is when asked about component video output on pre-recorded Blu-ray his answer was less than sure. He basically said that though the consumers would want it that the Blu-ray Founders also understand the concerns of studios.

Alistair, I think the addition of pre-recorded Blu-ray playback on the PS3 would be a selling point. The problem is that it may not be a big enough selling point to justify the additional cost.

 

[Joseph Bolus]

Another thing Mike Fidler said that was interesting is when asked about component video output on pre-recorded Blu-ray his answer was less than sure.

Whoa!!

If component video out is not included then that would be a complete "show stopper" for most HT enthusiasts I'm afraid!!

Hopefully, they can get this ironed out prior to the U.S. launch!

 

[Jesse Blacklow]

Joseph: That's not entirely true. If they market Blu-Ray like they did DVHS, as a expensive high-end HD solution, then it won't have much of an impact. But if they market as a low-cost "successor" to DVD, there will be plenty of people that will bite the bullet, I think. Particularly if launch or near-launch titles are good films in terms of content as well as presentation, like the new HD transfer of Lawrence of Arabia RAH just finished (whereas DVHS was almost entirely Hollywood blockbusters with no substance, or IMO crap). I'm firmly against HDCP and all that it stands for, but the average HT enthusiast is pretty much beholden to the studios, and HDCP is what they want.

Now, on the other hand, HDCP is already under attack, both politically and physically (as in being hacked). It's quite possible that they'll go another digital route (Firewire), or give us VGA out. And what about BD-ROM/R drives in PCs? Nothing they can really do there.

 

[Mark Bendiksen]

Another thing Mike Fidler said that was interesting is when asked about component video output on pre-recorded Blu-ray his answer was less than sure.

That sends a chill up my spine. It took me years (yes, years) to convince the wife that I should get my Toshiba widescreen TV. Unless the thing spontaneously combusts I won't be buying another set for a long time. If the Blu-ray players don't have component outs then personally I'm going to be a wee bit upset.

 

[Jonathan_E]

Another thing Mike Fidler said that was interesting is when asked about component video output on pre-recorded Blu-ray his answer was less than sure. He basically said that though the consumers would want it that the Blu-ray Founders also understand the concerns of studios.

I may be missing something here, but what are the concerns of the studios when it comes to component video out? (and if component video isn't used, what will be?)

In addition, has an HD format been decided on for standardization? There are still multiple formats for HD-video out there (720P, 1080i to list two of them). If Sony arbitrarily decides a format while other formats are still common, I think it would reduce the interest in blu-ray until a standard is chosen (similar to how some might say the old div-x format of dvd that flopped generated confusion among consumers that delayed the widespread consumer acceptance of dvd).

 

[Wayne Bundrick]

Good. I've been arguing that the manufacturers should be doing something to make discs less vulnerable to scratches, and that hiding the disc inside a caddy is not a solution but rather a crutch that works only until the Unskilled Package Stompers manages to destroy the caddy and its shards scratch the disc it was intended to protect.

 

[Stephen_Ri]

Copyright protection is the problem with component via RCAx3. DVI or Firewire are the connections that are being most considered.

 

[Jonathan_E]

Copyright protection is the problem with component via RCAx3.

I don't see why copyright protection is a big deal with component video. People are always going to figure out a way to copy something, no matter what they try to do to it. And if they are going to have blu-ray computer drives, then there goes any hope of copyright protection.

The studios need to learn that the people who are going to sit there and waste their time trying to copy a movie are a very small minority, and the rest of us will either go out and buy or rent the movies we like. If they don't use component video, then they're going to eliminate a large portion of the market because not only will we have to get a blu-ray player, but also a new TV and it is going to severely inhibit the growth of blu-ray from the start.

 

[Thomas Newton]

Copyright protection is the problem with component via RCAx3. DVI or Firewire are the connections that are being most considered.

Copyright protection is not a problem with component outputs. Copyright is a legal concept that has little or no relation to component outputs.

A lack of copy perversion on these outputs is the supposed problem. The "need" for copy perversion stems from the desire of certain movie industry types to treat all customers as criminals, even after the sale.

I've put up with a certain amount of this treatment over the years, but it seems that the only thing that tolerating this type of behavior does is to encourage more of it. The proposal in this thread ("no component outputs" for all of those HDTV-ready sets), and the notices on some tuner boxes (that deliberately downgrade "copyright-protected" signals) are evidence of that.

 

[Richard Paul]

Joseph, I could see Blu-ray players having component video outputs but they would most likely have their resolutions downconverted to 480p.

Jesse, Blu-ray will not output pre-recorded video over Firewire since if someone crack's the DTCP encryption on it they could record the digital video in it's compressed form. Even when HDCP is broken one would still be left with a uncompressed video stream. As for PC's with Blu-ray drives I have no idea what they may do.

Jonathan, there are different resolutions for HDTV but they are all under the ATSC standard. In other words there are no competing standards for HDTV since all ATSC tuners have to decode all 18 ATSC formats. To know more about ATSC and the 18 different formats go to their website here. Though most people know of 720p and 1080i the ATSC standard also has 1080p at 24 and 30 fps. I believe that the Blu-ray Founders (BDF) will most likely adopt all 18 formats into the pre-recorded Blu-ray format.

The reason that Hollywood doesn't want to use component video is that Macrovision works at 480i and 480p but there is no version of it for 720p or 1080i. This was to say the least a horrible oversight that the studio's brought upon themselves by ignoring the development of HDTV until they saw that it would be successful. Now they are trying to replace component video with DVI-HDCP when they could have created a more secure component video connection 6 years ago.

 

[Thomas Newton]

If vendors listen to Hollywood demands to leave out or degrade component video output, BluRay vendors will take a DIVX-like bath.

DVD buyers didn't go for the "tough luck to early buyers" pitch, and they had only spent a few hundred bucks each. A HDTV-ready set can cost thousands. Think those buyers will be any more eager to drink the Kool-Aid?

 

[Mark Bendiksen]

My feelings exactly. I own nearly 200 DVDs (admittedly a small list by HTF standards) and not one of them is a bootleg copy. I believe in paying for what I get; conversely, I also believe in getting what I pay for. Case in point: I paid good money for a Toshiba HDTV-ready widescreen TV two years ago. Why should I be denied the right to potentially see high definition images from ANY source (satellite, HD-DVD, pay-per-view) simply because the movie studios have irrational fears?

I realize that I may be oversimplifying the argument, but this particular issue really strikes a nerve with me.

 

[GlennH]

Aren't component outputs analog (very good analog, but analog nonetheless)? I thought the big piracy concerns were regarding the ability to make perfect digital copies. Do DVHS machines allow recording from the component inputs?

I have a 2-year old Pioneer Elite that I do not plan on replacing soon. It has component inputs and an RGB one, but no DVI or Firewire. I think there's a large percentage of "early adopter" types who would be the most likely early targets for Blu-Ray that will not support any format without component outputs.

 

[Sean Bryan]

If vendors listen to Hollywood demands to leave out or degrade component video output, BluRay vendors will take a DIVX-like bath.

You talk about this as if it is somehow unique to BluRay.

This is a potential issue for ALL forms of future HD delivery (official HD-DVD, HD-cable/satellite, etc...).

 

[Jonathan_E]

This is a potential issue for ALL forms of future HD delivery (official HD-DVD, HD-cable/satellite, etc...).

Are you saying that this blu-ray format is not the official HD-DVD format? They're not really going to mess this up by having a battle of formats like they did when DVD-R/-RW/+R/+RW/Ram came out are they?