UHD Blu-ray Disc Association Completes Ultra HD Blu-ray™ Specification and Releases New Logo (1 Viewer)

[Robert Crawford]

Persianimmortal, I clicked on the like tab of your post not because I like the idea you are conveying that disc formats for movies are basically headed downhill, (I happen to think streaming devalues movies, making people consider them as common everyday commodities) but because you were not deterred from presenting a hard truth, that you must have known would not be warmly greeted in many quarters.

It is, what it is. I'm a collector at heart with probably one of the largest disc collections on this forum including over 2700 Blu-rays. With that said, I stream and download movies in 1080p every week to enhance a film library with titles that are not on Blu-ray and in some cases, probably never will be on BD. Furthermore, I'm an insomniac, there have been more than a few times, that I fired up my Roku or Apple TV in my HT bedroom to watch a film in 1080p when I'm too lazy to leave my bed and go downstairs to pick a Blu-ray from my disc library so I even use 1080p streaming and downloading for films I have on Blu-ray.


A few years ago, I was anti-streaming/downloading and have expressed such a point of view on this forum many times. In my mature years, I've learned a person has to adapt to his current environment in order to enjoy life to its fullest. This HT hobby is constantly evolving, therefore, I try to evolve with it. That's just my personal take here and I expect all of us will make their own personal decision on these matters as this hobby goes through its future technological cycles.

 

[FoxyMulder]

But Malcolm, isn't it true that some pretty critical reviewers (even RAH, if memory serves) have evaluated some high quality, pristine, Blu-ray transfers where these critics commented in their reviews that those particular Blu-rays were found to contain no trace of any banding?

Yes that's true of well mastered blu ray discs but its not just about banding, 8 bit has less shades of a colour, by going 10 bit you get a lot more shades and thus colours become even more accurate and better, i think blu ray should have been 10 bit from the very start of the format and UHD should use 12 bit colour depth, it's just about more colour precision.


Now having said the above i do think blu ray with its 8 bit colour depth can be superb, but if technology is now capable of doing it better then why stick to the past, give us the very best possible, most consumers won't care or notice, i think UHD will be a niche format and will appeal to a small minority of hardcore film fans, these people, including myself, want the very best they can offer.


Streaming is a problem for me as my speed is not much better than 7Mbps on a quiet day and a couple of Mbps lower on a busy internet day, not good enough for blu ray quality never mind UHD streaming, i think they are upgrading my exchange around 2017 but i'll still only get around 14Mbps when that happens, i have nothing against streaming, it's just not viable for me right now.

 

[TravisR]

A few years ago, I was anti-streaming/downloading and have expressed such a point of view on this forum many times.

I'll always prefer a disc to downloading but not to the point that I will cut my nose off to spite my face. When studios abandon physical media, I'll make the switch and hopefully by that point, a lot of the problems (like having the ability to allow a million people to quickly download a HD/4K copy of a big summer movie at the same basic time) will be worked out.

 

[Persianimmortal]

Persianimmortal, I clicked on the like tab of your post not because I like the idea you are conveying that disc formats for movies are basically headed downhill, (I happen to think streaming devalues movies, making people consider them as common everyday commodities) but because you were not deterred from presenting a hard truth, that you must have known would not be warmly greeted in many quarters.

And that's pretty much all I'm attempting to do: present the hard truth. I'm absolutely amazed that anyone who has observed the history of Blu-ray and its struggles over the past 9 years could possibly think that UHD Blu-ray has any chance whatsoever.

Personally, I'm not pro-digital or anti-disc. I don't own any movie on digital download/iTunes etc. Netflix only recently came to Australia, and I enjoy streaming for what is, mainly to view movies I wouldn't normally want to own. I strongly prefer owning as many of my favorites as possible on Blu-ray. I'm also of the opinion that Blu-ray will be more than adequate when upscaled on 4K displays, and given just how many great releases we've had on Blu-ray, we should actually be quite satisfied as classic movie lovers.

But honestly, let's not delude ourselves into thinking that physical disc has a bright future beyond Blu-ray, or that consumers will pay any attention to expanded color gamuts, HDR, Dolby Atmos and any number of subtle ultra-niche quality improvements. UHD Blu-ray is the Blu-ray Disc Association's last-gasp effort to try to remain relevant, and the studios and hardware manufacturers are going along with it because it may help sell a few more movies and 4K TVs. But the future for 4K seems to unmistakably be pure digital. As Robert says, we need to adapt to that. But again, for now we have a large and excellent selection of movies on BD to keep physical disc lovers happy for some time.

 

[Raul Marquez]

Again, a BIG thing to consider is the stability of Internet Broadband service. A LOT of places still have sub-par internet service which makes digital downloads and streaming a frustrating option. Nothing like popping a disc in the player and having it play immediately for DVDs and almost immediately in the case of Blu-rays.... wonder how fast the playback of UHD discs will be.

 

[Sam Posten]

Of course Doc, but on the other hand the world is not going to stand still for those who are bandwidth challenged. It's pressure for them to catch up not a reason for everyone else to be forever tied to the slowest links.

 

[KeithDA]

Of course Doc, but on the other hand the world is not going to stand still for those who are bandwidth challenged. It's pressure for them to catch up not a reason for everyone else to be forever tied to the slowest links.

Well, not sure how I can catch up and improve on my 1.6mb speed unless I move the house nearer to town!

 

[Raul Marquez]

Well, not sure how I can catch up and improve on my 1.6mb speed unless I move the house nearer to town!

Precisely my point!

 

[davidmatychuk]

There was a wind storm yesterday in Vancouver, and a lot of trees fell over, causing widespread power outages. There wasn't one here, but Shaw Cable, my Internet/Cable/Landline supplier, was out for a time in the afternoon, so I was without cable, phone, or Internet until about 1:30 PM, when it all came back on. Then around 9 PM, the picture on my TV froze, the computer disconnected from the Internet, and the phone wouldn't work. Again. I watched DVD's and Blu-Rays for the rest of the evening. At 10:30 AM this morning, the service was still down, then I got a call from a friend about 11:15, and service had been restored. The moral of the story as regards streaming, or any other home theatre function requiring an Internet connection: Man proposes, God disposes.

 

[Dave Moritz]

I'll always prefer a disc to downloading but not to the point that I will cut my nose off to spite my face. When studios abandon physical media, I'll make the switch and hopefully by that point, a lot of the problems (like having the ability to allow a million people to quickly download a HD/4K copy of a big summer movie at the same basic time) will be worked out.

Disc is still my primary way of watching movies and I also prefer physical formats. And the industry could very well end up going the way of digital downloads and streaming someday but it is not going to happen for some time. While studios may or may not want to abandon physical media I honestly do not think they will be able to do so anytime soon. To many consumers do not have computers and or internet service so until internet service becomes more widespread and penetrates at least 85%+ homes studios will need a delivery system to those who do not have cable and or internet service. So until then physical media will go on for some time to come even if more people stream content and or down load it. As far as I am concerned if physical media goes away I would most likely subscribe to a streaming service where I can watch content for a low monthly fee to go along with my direct tv. But I personally see no value in digital downloads and until video quality is a match for physical discs and until they offer lossless audio I personally see no reason for myself to purchase digital formats.

Persianimmortal, I clicked on the like tab of your post not because I like the idea you are conveying that disc formats for movies are basically headed downhill, (I happen to think streaming devalues movies, making people consider them as common everyday commodities) but because you were not deterred from presenting a hard truth, that you must have known would not be warmly greeted in many quarters.

I feel if digital downloads and streaming ever actually replace a physical format the way things are now that the experience is defiantly going downhill. Currently video quality is not up to what you get with physical media and while some streaming services have closed the gap others still lag behind a bit. Many streaming services via cable or satellite are still old fashion 5.1 dolby digital and to my knowledge a good part of internet streaming is still dolby digital as well. Yes some have some dolby digital plus but compaired to what we can get with 1080p blu-ray discs that offer uncompressed pcm or lossless 5.1/7.1 and a few immersive audio titles going back to dolby digital IMHO is also going backwards. Digital downloads and streaming also IMHO devalues movies and I agree that it creates a climate where the average consumer starts looking at them as a common commodity. Both digital downloads and streaming not only devalue content but destroys the value of content for those who collect movies. Two examples for myself that I will use is I did purchase 3 episodes of Battlestar Galactica and I am stuck watching them on my pc and I see no reason to have to buy a media player for something that I am not going to use much because I feel buying digital content is not a good investment. So lets say iTunes goes under or even worse Apple goes under meaning iTunes goes under not that it is very likely but any content is lost so not only do you not have any content but any media player is now useless as well. And I have purchased a map pack for a game but since upgrading my pc now I am unable to redownload the content I paid for so this will be a total pain in the butt. Also what are people going to do when they have built large collections of digital content and there hard drives die? What are they going to do if there provider goes out of business and they no longer have access to that content that they have spent alot of money on? Sure some of us here know that the answer to not having to download all that content over again is to buy multiple hard drives and run them in a raid configuration. But joe 6 pack is not going to buy extra hard drives and is most likely going to have low end internet so if the average consumer has to download 50 - 100 movies all over again it would be a disaster. Also peoples collections that they no longer actually own will be limited to how much hard drive space they have and they will have to decide if they are going to also have a streaming service and then decide if they will ether invest in another network area storage device to have more storage or deleting content from there drives and streaming that movie instead even though they have already spent money on that digital content. Yes there is a convenience factor to it that I can not deny but we are also going backwards to achieve a delivery system that doesn't require physical shelf space at a retail store. I can also see the death of retail stores in regards to buying physical media as being another set back to where people buy the content from digital sources and yet another instance where they are not interacting with other human beings. But because so many people do not have computers or internet access or have very slow internet I do not see physical media dying anytime soon. For studios to write off physical media would be for them to write off all the consumers that do not have internet. Also what if you loose your job and can no longer pay for internet? Now you can not view the content you have paid for and is now not accessible. Then there is the issues like some have experienced when services go down during or even after a storm and you lose access to your content. While digital content via purchasing and or just streaming can be a good choice for some to be an add on I do not think it should ever replace physical media you can hold in your hand and that you actually own.

 

[Dave Moritz]

davidmatychuk


That sucks! Good thing you had your blu-rays so you still could watch movies even though your tv and internet where out.

 

[TravisR]

And the industry could very well end up going the way of digital downloads and streaming someday but it is not going to happen for some time.

Yeah, I definitely think download-only is many years away too. I'm just saying that when discs are completely dead is the point at which I plan on making the switch to downloads.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

So lets say iTunes goes under or even worse Apple goes under meaning iTunes goes under not that it is very likely but any content is lost so not only do you not have any content but any media player is now useless as well.

When possible, I prefer owning discs. Just gonna throw that out there, cause the next thing I say might make it sound like I don't. But just having something in a physical format is no guarantee that it will last forever either or be useful forever. I'm the only one left in my family who can play VHS tapes, for instance. My parents and I had a huge VHS collection when I was growing up, and some of those tapes still reside in my dad's attic - but my parents both ditched their VCRs years ago, even though they owned content they could play, some of which isn't available in any other format. I still have a VCR, it doesn't get much use, but it's available if I need it. But some of my tapes have worn out from years of being watched and rewatched, and others have degraded from being stored in the attic or basement. And some of them just aren't useful to me anymore - I'm not going to watch a letterboxed VHS tape of "Jurassic Park" when there's a Blu-ray available. Then if we talk about DVD, some of the discs I've bought over the years no longer play, whether it was a dual layer glue issue or some other random anomaly. These are discs that used to work perfectly, that were always kept in good condition in their original packaging, that for whatever reason just don't work anymore. It's a small minority of titles to be sure, but it's happened. I suspect it's possible for the same to happen to a small number of Blu-ray discs over time. Though we can't imagine it now, maybe there will come a day when regular DVD players aren't readily available anymore.


What I'm trying to say is, as much as I love discs, I don't view them as being infallible or forever - more likely to survive than a lot of other things, yes, but not necessarily forever purchases. I used to buy more discs than I do now - I used to do a lot of blind buys, and a lot of purchases of movies I liked but didn't necessarily have plans to watch again anytime soon. Now I mostly only buy discs when I know I'm going to be watching them right away. Part of that is out of a desire not to have excess clutter and to try to save some money, but part of it is also because I don't want to spend money on something now, and then find that it doesn't work in a few years when I go to watch it for the first time.


I also live in an area where getting good internet service isn't a problem - it's basically as reliable as any other utility that I get at this point. So while yes, the internet could go out and I wouldn't be able to stream during that time, in my experience that hasn't happened. I've lost electricity more times than I've lost the internet in the past five years. And you can't watch anything without electricity whether it's streaming or discs. (Actually, I did stream some Doctor Who episodes on my iPhone during the Hurricane Sandy blackouts.)


I don't think I've ever made a digital purchase for a movie - I have a pretty decent online collection from redeeming the various coupons that come with the discs, but I haven't bought anything digital only yet. I don't think Apple is going anywhere anytime soon, but the point about being tied to a specific retailer and having your content forever dependent on that retailer's survival is a good one. For that reason, I like the idea of Ultraviolet - that you've purchased the license to view the movie, that the studio has that on file, and that you can choose which online retailers to view that title on interchangeably.


I'd love to live in a world where you purchase a movie once, and then you're forever done with purchasing that movie, and you have it forever with no worries, but I don't think we'll ever be completely, 100% there. Too many variables. Physical media can degrade, players can stop working. Digital streaming services might go out of business, digital file formats might change and not be playable on future equipment. Movie studios might go out of business and the digital licenses might no longer be good. I'm not really optimistic that there will ever be a completely foolproof way of buying a movie and having it forever and ever with a 100% guarantee that it will always be available to you at any moment without any added expenses or hassles.

 

[DalekFlay]

There's a middle-ground here most ignore,which is niche format still worth supporting or licensing for by the studios. CDs are still going relatively strong for a niche medium 15 years after MP3 supposedly killed them, and I have no doubt disc releases for movies will continue for decades. The only question is what form those releases take, BD, UHD or otherwise, and how many movies/shows skip a physical release.


I don't expect TV on disc to last much longer. As a medium it is perfectly suited for streaming. Movies, especially genre movies and classics, should be on disc for ages to come I expect, in some form or another.

 

[Persianimmortal]

Regarding stories of Internet outages, surely as Josh points out, you have about the same chance of having a lengthy power outage as you do a lengthy Internet outage in most areas.


In my opinion, the form any upcoming physical releases will take will primarily be DVD or BD; just like CD, they're an established format with a sufficiently large enough remaining user base to justify the cost and effort of production and distribution. UHD Blu-ray on the other hand only makes commercial sense for the biggest new release blockbusters, and only for as long as it takes that user base (i.e. people with 4K hardware who buy new release movies on disc) to transition completely to digital. I suggest that would be a window of sales opportunity of around 2-3 years at the most.

 

[bruceames]

A power outage is more likely than not having internet with me. If I lose Comcast internet, then I just fire up the Verizon mobile hotspot app.

 

[davidmatychuk]

I didn't have a power outage, but my Cable/Internet/Telephone company did. It gave me a sneak peek at living off the grid, and a fresh appreciation of the value of physical copies. This afternoon, I even got to brag to my Co-Op neighbours how entertained I was last night, in person of course.

 

[Patrick Donahue]

The way I look at all this physical/digital debate is - it's all a moot point if you ignore the 3 week early release window and purchase a Blu-Ray with a Digital HD code...

 

[Dave Moritz]

Speaking of the digital hd codes I have maybe registered a few of my blu-ray movies and have not bothered with a single ultraviolet viewing. Besides the issue of the possible loss of content if a provider of content goes out of business. It kinda sucks spending money to improve our home theaters only to have the business model pointing towards a delivery system that rely's on having an internet connection. And the fact that we finally have blu-ray movies with lossless audio tracks and the streaming and download model skips backward to 5.1 lossy dolby digital. Not to mention it looks like we are also going from physical formats that we own and where there is a possible collectible aspect that is totally going way with the streaming and download model. Don't get me wrong sometimes I rent a movie on demand to see if I might want to buy a title. I have 3 episodes of Battlestar Galactica and while these are the only content I have purchased. It sucks having these episodes stuck on the pc and I actually find it hard to sit down and watch any of those 3 episodes on my pc's 27" Samsung 1080p flat panel. I do not see how people enjoy watching content on a tiny smart phone. But for me it is difficult to watch content beyond the short videos on youtube on the small 27" monitor. Part of my upgrade plan includes a 4K/UHD projector and one thing is for certain I am not going to invest in a projector to watch digital downloads or streaming quality content.

 

[Robert Crawford]

It seems like some of us including myself are just repeating our previous comments on streaming, downloading and digital HD codes.