Blazing Saddles: Race question.... (1 Viewer)

[Mike Franklin]

Huckleberry Finn probably should not be taught in school because of the feel and impression that was perceived by Mike. His class and that of his girlfriend appear not to have been given a background by the teacher into the society of the era.

The uncofotalbeness I was talking about was saying the *N* word. We completly understood the time and the era and what was going on and so did my girlfriend. The problem is that white people saying the *N* word verses the black people. Being black my self and agreeing with the majority of black people that, that word should never be uttered out the mouths of white people even if it is in a book.

 

[BrianB]

Huckleberry Finn probably should not be taught in school because of the feel and impression that was perceived by Mike. His class and that of his girlfriend appear not to have been given a background by the teacher into the society of the era.

Ashley, I have to respectfully disagree. That is exactly why it *should* be taught in schools alongside a history of the era & why Mark Twain was writing what he did, to show up why the novel is so important to American literature & society. That Mike's class didn't get that context is a deficiency of the school's program, it is not a problem with the book.

 

[Brian_J]

To give you an example, I accidentally lent him my copy of Reservoir Dogs on DVD completely forgetting about that awful Tarantino rascist diatribe that happens in it.

Sure Tarantino isn't rascist (according to Sam Jackson at least), the movie almost certainly didn't set out to be rascist, but I can certainly understand my friend feeling uncomfortable when that scene came on! Especially when so many people I know consider the film to be a classic! Obviously I don't think the guys in the film are "cool" when they're talking like that, I just hope he knows that.

I dont really get the hyper-sensitivity here. You are afraid that a black friend will think you are a racist because of biggoted remarks included at one part of a popular film? Its not like you are giving him a pro KKK documentary. Maybe this is the "white man's guilt." By the way, lets use the right terms here: ie racist vs biggot vs prejudice.

Brian

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

John: You're situation sort of reminds me of how alot of people view disabled person. They're so afraid of offending them, that the result is that they never end up getting to really know them. I'd say lend him the DVD, if he likes it fine if he doesn't just move on.

 

[Rex Bachmann]

Aaron Reynolds wrote:

is an angry film. It is also a viciously funny film,. . .

I didn't see the movie Bamboozled, but, from what I've read about it and the few scenes I've seen, surely it was intended as absurdist film. Surely.
Americans do not take well to absurdist literature on page or stage (or screen). They do tend to like the shtick, which is what most of Mel Brooks' drearily unfunny oeuvre is based on.

 

[Mike Franklin]

That Mike's class didn't get that context is a deficiency of the school's program, it is not a problem with the book.

BrianB my class got the book but we were making fun of was the *N* word and not the literary content. I tried to explain it without going to far but I see I have to fill in the blanks for everyone. When I say the *N* word to my friends and family it ok when a white person say's it, it's not ok that was the comparison I was making not to do anything with the school or the way were thought. I was in an advanced english class, so was my girlfriend, but the point I was trying to make, was that is reading the book in all black classroom is totally different,than in a classroom filled with white people and one or two black people. I recieved a fine education it has nothing to do with the school systme at ALL or every will. The problem that people have with the book, is that it is written by a white guy who uses the *N* very liberally and thats what it really boils down to.

 

[Ben Motley]

The problem that people have with the book, is that it is written by a white guy who uses the *N* very liberally and thats what it really boils down to.

Mike, if you're implying that Mark Twain was a racist, I think you have a lot of learning and growing to do. This is what it really boils down to? Really? I'm sorry, but it just isn't as black and white as that (every last ounce of pun decidedly intended). You can't legitimately write off one of the most respected satirists of all time by taking one word, liberally used or not, out of context.

 

[Mike Franklin]

Mike, if you're implying that Mark Twain was a racist, I think you have a lot of learning and growing to do

Once again you miss the point, of what im say of course I dont think Mark Twain is a racist. I was talk about black people at large not me personaly I was tring to get you to understand why people have a problem not that I have a problem with Mark Twain or any of his writings. Seeing that no one here will ever understand what im talking about there really any point in tring to explain. I give up.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Mike, if you're implying that Mark Twain was a racist, I think you have a lot of learning and growing to do.

Ben,

Such a statement was uncalled for in relation to what Mike actually said! Furthermore, who's to say that according to today's standards, Mark Twain didn't have some racist viewpoints. During his lifetime, I don't believe Mark Twain thought a black man was an equal to a white man and if so, does that make him a racist or a product of his times? Probably, a little of both!

Crawdaddy

 

[Ashley Seymour]

Thanks to Mike for making the effort to explain a tough and painful issue. Clemens wrote this book for a white racist audience that he was holding up to ridicule. While it is an important piece of American Literature it does not mean that an open reading in a classroom setting is the appropriate forum for discussion. Mike makes it very clear that the language and the message in a mixed audience can make for extremely embarrasing and emotionally stressful situation. I can see where reading out loud or a group discussion would produce the opposite effect that Clemens intended and that he would be offended by the presentation of his work in this manner. I can imagine having very close friends of different color, sex, religeous, sexual preference, etc. and but respect that because of our differences I could never say certain words, or express or repeat certain things because they would be offensive to my friend and would show a lack of consideration on my part.

I still believe that Huck Finn should not be presented in a certain setting, but not for the problem of political correctness. It should be avoided because of concern and respect for those who have a valid reason for feeling very ill at ease in discussing these issues.

Mike, thanks.

 

[Ben Motley]

Furthermore, who's to say that according to today's standards, Mark Twain didn't have some racist viewpoints.

That's exactly what I'm talking about here Robert. You and Mike are taking Twain and his literature out of context. It is entirely unfair to hold Twain up to today's standards. I stand by what I said Robert, as I do think it relates to what Mike said. Mike generalizes the issue by stripping it down to a "white guy" using the *N*, nevermind the content. It sure sounded to me like he was calling Twain a racist.

Mike, I don't know why you say that I "once again" miss your point, as I haven't addressed the Huck Finn issue but that once. I'll apologize for the "learning and growing" bit, but only because you conceded that Twain wasn't a racist. I still think anyone who thinks Twain is a racist or tries to define him in modern 21st century terms has got some learning and growing to do.

But I can take a hint Robert, so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Rex Bachmann]

Mike Franklin wrote:

N[/I]]Quote:

Although I agree with most of what you say, I think here you miss the point and contradict yourself. "Avoiding" discussion out of "concern and respect for those who have a valid reason for feeling very ill at ease in discussing these issues" is the very definition (as far as I can tell) of "political correctness" on the part of those who constantly(!) use this buzzword for anything they object to in public life. The sensitivity of others means nothing. Only their sensitivities, their "sacred cows"---and every group has its "sacred cows"; it's an integral part of group identity---count for them.
So your statement would naturally fall on deaf ears to that crowd.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Such a statement was uncalled for in relation to what Mike actually said! Furthermore, who's to say that according to today's standards, Mark Twain didn't have some racist viewpoints. During his lifetime, I don't believe Mark Twain thought a black man was an equal to a white man and if so, does that make him a racist or a product of his times? Probably, a little of both!

Crawdaddy

 

[Ben Motley]

Robert,

There is no assumption here; if one takes a word out of context, refusing to take a work of literature in as a whole, then one is willfully disregarding the meaning of that literature. A willful refusal to learn is ignorance.

I am not calling Mike ignorant.

I am not calling you ignorant.

I am however pointing out the problem I had with Mike's last statement in the post I quoted. As he originally wrote it, he said the problem that people have with the book is that it was written by a white guy using N a lot. Mike then came back and disociated himself from these very people, which wasn't exactly clear before. Okay, fine, I apologized to him. But, I still say that anyone who condemns the book on the above criteria alone, and doesn't acknowledge that the far more complex messages in the book have merit, could use some... nope, not going there again.

As for your own ideas on Twains personal thoughts, I think we both have some reading to do before we get into that Robert. You say you "don't believe" Twain thought a black man was equal to a white man. Well, before you go sounding off on that, and before I even think of attempting to debate that with you, let's do some research first, if you really would like to pursue this.

 

[Bryan Tuck]

I apologize for continuing to go off-topic here.

I think another way to look at this is to compare Huck Finn with Stanley Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket. The latter contatins some seemingly demeaning portrayals of Vietnamese people. However, if you really look at it, and if you understand Kubrick's style, you see that it is not condoning the racist actions and thoughts of the US soldiers; it's merely showing them, acknowledging that they existed, and providing a chilling commentary on wartime attitudes, not just from Americans, but from anyone.

To me, that's similar to what Twain did with Huck Finn. If someone were to write a book today about racism during the 19th-century, and did not include the "n"-word, it would probably be considered sugarcoated or unbelievable. Twain did not hold back in his portrayal of these attitudes, and that made his skewering of them all the more on target.

I actually find Huck Finn to be a blatantly anti-racist book, in the same way that I think Blazing Saddles is a very anti-racist movie, or in the same way that Dr. Strangelove is a very anti-war movie. Satire can make very strong and important statements when used properly, or at least suggest ideas. It's a shame that it is so often misunderstood.

I think I do understand where Mike is coming from, though. Perhaps the book shouldn't be read aloud in class. But I still feel it should be taught, and taught correctly.

 

[Mike Franklin]

Alright Im Back!

Ok where to begin, first let me say that I dont not think Mark Twain or any of his writing should be edited or any portails of the that time or idea's should be. You are all correct that this book was written during a very culturally bias time, the use of any and all word are apart of that as well as the ideas expressed in the book.

Secondly, I like to say Im sorry if my original post came off sounding like I thought that Mark Twain was a racist. Even if he was a little racist or a bigit that was simple the time and the socical norm thats just the way thing were.

I was just trying to disprove that Blazing Saddles was just racist as Huck Finn. If anything its more simular to Do the Right Thing than anything else.