Blade Runner - Fill Me in Please (1 Viewer)

[Will_B]

The extra minute of footage that the Criterion version has -- isn't that from the european theatrical version? I know that is the version I prefer; with Pris holding up Deckard ever so tenderly by his nostrils.

I discovered Blade Runner on vhs, like most did. And the vhs had the euro theatrical version. I expect that version to be on the super duper set when it comes out.

But perhaps they can do a seamless branching that will delete the extra minute for the very very very very very few people who saw Blade Runner in the theater back when it was released, and want that ever-so-slightly shorter version.

(Did I show any bias in the above post?)

;-)

 

[Bill McCamy]

Wait a minute... I'm not that OLD. I clearly remember a June Saturday in 1982. I was in Reno with my then six year old, soon to be twenty-six year old son. We were too late for the afternoon performance of the Rodeo, so we had hours before the evening performance. I hadn't yet learned how to gamble , My son and I went to the Century theater and saw Bladerunner. What a movie it was.
Nevertheless, I prefer the director's cut. It loses a little of the film noir feel, but allows the viewer to feel, see, and hear the flight back Deckard takes with Olmos.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Sam --

As you mention - the only drawback to the Embassy release is that it was in Pan & Scan only.
But at least it was the original movie

Some might say that those two statements contradict each other. Blade Runner panned & scanned is far from "the original movie".
Now lest anyone think that my response is just knee-jerk, let me say that I do have the film in its original U.S. theatrical cut -- not the Embassy LD but a limited-release pre-recorded SVHS that has almost the resolution of laserdisc. The Criterion LD, even with the extra few seconds of violence, is much closer to what I saw in theaters in 1982 than the cropped image on that SVHS tape.
M.

 

[Sam R. Aucoin]

I thought that my reference to "original movie" would be easily interpreted as referring to the RUNNING TIME and SCENES of the original, theatrical release - not the "presentation" of the movie (that is, picture width and height).

I realize that a Pan & Scan movie is NEVER the OAR as shown in theaters . . .

By the way, the "European version" (the one on The Criterion Collection LD) has more than just a "few seconds".

If you have not seen each of these movie versions, do not read further unless you want to be spoiled for the upcoming special edition which may or may not include some of the scenes mentioned below.

I. Embassy Version (original theatrical version):

A. Closeup of Batty's hand spasming while in the VidPhone booth.

B. Closeup of Batty in the VidPhone smiling (which was, really, a reverse of the shot of Batty in Tyrell's bedroom while they are both sitting on Tyrell's bed talking).

C. Deckard's narration from beginning to end.

D. Happy ending.

II. The Criterion Collection (European version):

A. Tyrell's death scene shows Batty bleeding profusely from his eyesockets and also shows Batty's thumbs popping out from the eyesockets as he lets Tyrell fall to the floor.

B. Pris twists Deckard 180 degrees around while straddling his shoulders.

C. Pris lifts Deckard up by his nostrils.

D. Deckard shoots Pris THREE times, and much more time is spent showing Pris thrashing around on the floor, including a slow-motion sequence where Pris's both spasms upward for one last time.

E. Closeup of Batty pushing a nail through the palm of his hand.

F. Closeup of Batty pushing a nail through the back of his hand.

G. Long narration by Deckard.

H. Happy ending.

III. The Director's Cut (on LD and DVD - which, by the way, was the FIRST DVD I purchased along with my Sony old DVP7000)

A. Narration is gone until the roof scene with Batty.

B. Violence from European version is reduced.

C. No happy ending.

D. Most infamous of all - unicorn dream-sequence is added.

MAJOR SPOILER AHEAD - STOP READING NOW

By the way - in ALL versions of Blade Runner, Deckard's eyes glow for an instant just as he leaves the kitchen after washing the blood out of his mouth and turns to say something to Rachael. You have to advance the frames very slowly to see this, but it DOES occur. This almost irrefutably casts Deckard as a replicant. I say almost because (1) I think he is human, despite what Scott now says, and (2) one could argue that his eyes glow simply because of the camera angle with his retinal fluid reflecting the background light (much like the leopard's eyes in 2001).

Regards,

Sam

 

[Michael Reuben]

Note that I (meaning, me in particular, but as well as several other Blade Runner "die hards") consider the Embassy Home Video version (albeit in Pan & Scan) to be worth more for one reason: it is the ONLY way to watch the Blade Runner movie, at home, in the theatrical roadshow version of 1982.

I was offering a different perspective on value. In my view, the Embassy LD (or any cropped version of Blade Runner) is not a way to watch the "theatrical roadshow version of 1982" because the film is so radically altered when the visuals are compromised.
In my view, the Criterion LD -- even with the added footage -- comes much closer to offering an experience of the film as it played in 1982. Again, it's a question of perspective.
Now if you're talking strictly about reference material (i.e., having a source for the sort of scenic listing in your most recent post), then of course you're correct. But I wouldn't want someone reading this thread to go bidding on the Embassy LD thinking they were going to get anything close to an experience of the theatrical version.
M.

 

[Sam R. Aucoin]

I give up . . .

 

[Michael Reuben]

Aw, Sam, don't give up so soon. At least stay long enough to correct the mistakes in your list. For example:

Quote:

These shots are not peculiar to the Embassy LD. They appear in all versions of the film.
M.

 

[Phu Vo]

Sam,
Sorry man, didn't mean to put you on the spot. It was a bit of a rhetorical question. I actually own a copy of the original 1983 pressing of the Embassy LD along with the CAV Criterion edition. Link Removed. Pretty good condition considering the thing is almost as old as I am.
I just wanted to know what your take was on it. I know Paul Sammons book lists the Embassy LD as the only time the original domestic theatrical release was ever on the format, but the Criterion edition varies little from this. Anyways, you didn't answer my question on how much you think the Embassy LD is worth.
BTW, I saw Blade Runner at the age of 7. Me and my brothers snuck into the local drive in here in San Jose almost 20 years ago. The original Blade Runner left a deep impression on me then and since. Flawed and all, I would hope that the original theatrical cut shows up on DVD in some form or another soon.

 

[Lawrence Davis]

Criterion Brazil Vs. New Warner Blade Runner SE

Brazil was a bomb at the box office. The people who loved the film, were a very tiny group of people. A dedicated and tenacious group, but tiny nonetheless. Blade Runner was not a box office smash, but its legend has grown over the years to the point that many consider it one of the best films of the '80's, if not ever and certainly one of the best science fiction films. Compared to Brazil, Blade Runner has wide appeal. Yes, Warner could release a super duper, no holds barred, special edition. I don't think they will and the reason is that they want a lot of people to buy it. The more discs, the more it will cost. Adding more discs and jacking up the price will cause J6P's to pass on buying it. On the other hand, turning the SE into a super deluxe for-all-time special edition, would excite a lot of people (me included). But I don't see Warner having the guts to add 3 or more discs and hike the price out of the reach of the casual J6P fan of the film. I would be delighted if I was wrong and I will definitely buy it in whatever form it comes in. I'm sure a lot of work has gone into making this a great SE. I just don't expect an exhaustive 3 or more disc release.

 

[Sam R. Aucoin]

Michael is correct about the narration on the DC of the LD/DVD the wall-to-wall narration is gone. Sorry for the mistake - I had just watched the entire DVD (for the hell of it), so I don't know why I made this mistake. When you watch all three versions on a regular basis, you tend to let them "run together" and forget which is which.
As far as the other comments, I maintain they are correct. They are not necessarily completely different scenes are they are CUTS of these scenes. If you watch the three versions and compare, you will see what I am talking about.
BTW: I took the wording almost word-for-word from Paul Sammon's book. If my post is incorrect, then so is is book. And I doubt that . . .

 

[Michael Reuben]

BTW: I took the wording almost word-for-word from Paul Sammon's book. If my post is incorrect, then so is is book. And I doubt that . . .

Sammon's book is correct, but you've transcribed it incompletely. On page 404 of Future Noir, he notes that the two shots in your list (Batty's hand spasming and the "reversed" shot of Batty supposedly in the Vidphone booth) were added for the U.S. domestic release and did not appear in either the previously shown workprint or the San Diego sneak preview. However, those two shots have remained in the movie ever since. Accordingly, they are not something that distinguishes the Embassy LD from other versions on tape or disc.
M.

 

[Sam R. Aucoin]

You didn't put me on the spot, Phu. Sorry I did not answer your original question: I would value the Embassy version at between $75-$100.

Regarding my post and Sammon's book, please see page 407:

Verbatim:

"Additional shot on IC shows closeup of Batty pushing nail through palm of his hand.

"Additional IC footage shows that naile pushing through the back of Batty's hand (also in closeup).

"These two ADDED CLOSEUPS OF BATTY . . ."

If "added", used in the context above, does not mean "changed", then I don't know what does.

Also, I never said that the closeups of Batty in the VidPhone were DIFFERENT FROM ALL OTHER RELEASES. These closeups were added to the ORIGINAL showing at the San Diego Sneak preview (which, by most accounts, was GOING TO BE THE AMERICAN RELEASE-VERSION), as well as the Workprint. I mentioned this only because some people may have actually attended the San Diego Sneak preview and never saw the movie theatrically again, and thought that they HAD seen the way Blade Runner would be released nationwide. It wasn't.

Finally, Paul Sammon himself, on page 429 of his book, refers to the Embassy Home Entertainment version as "The Original American Theatrical Release", even though he acknowledges it is in Pan & Scan.

Considering the fact that I have never seen a movie SHOWN THEATRICALLY in Pan & Scan, I assumed that when I referred to the Embassy version as the "original movie", people would think "content". I am (again) sorry if my wording did not satisfy everyone.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Quote:

I've never disputed that the Embassy laser contains the cut of the film first released in American theaters. You and I just have different views on what that LD is worth.
M.

 

[Sam R. Aucoin]

Michael - (and this will be my last post on this topic, because this is becoming tedious) - I NEVER SAID THAT THE VIDPHONE SEQUENCE IN THE EMBASSY VERSION WAS DIFFERENT FROM THE CRITERION COLLECTION OR THE DIRECTOR'S CUT VERSIONS. NEVER, EVER, NOT EVEN SUGGESTED.

You said: "There's no question that the Embassy LD contains a different cut of the battle on the roof. But the cut of the Vidphone sequence is the same."

Did you not read the VERY next paragraph of my post where I said: "Also, I never said that the closeups of Batty in the VidPhone were DIFFERENT FROM ALL OTHER RELEASES. These closeups were added to the ORIGINAL showing at the San Diego Sneak preview (which, by most accounts, was GOING TO BE THE AMERICAN RELEASE-VERSION), as well as the Workprint. I mentioned this only because some people may have actually attended the San Diego Sneak preview and never saw the movie theatrically again, and thought that they HAD seen the way Blade Runner would be released nationwide. It wasn't."

My point in posting the versions, IN THE ORDER THAT I POSTED THEM, was to show how changes occurred with each "new" release.

Again, as Sammon clearly states, the Vidphone sequence WAS different from what was to be the original theatrical release (which was given a "sneak peak" in San Diego. Either because of negative viewer feedback cards, or some other unknown reason, this particular sequence was changed when the movie was release nationwide, and it was the nationwide release that appears on the Embassy LD.

Michael, you said earlier referring to the VidPhone sequence (and I quote): "These shots are not peculiar to the Embassy LD. They appear in all versions of the film."

That is not true. They did NOT appear in the San Diego Sneak Preview (although I did not attend that preview, I will have to take Sammon's word as pretty darned good evidence).

In the end, I think we need to cut some slack here for innocent mistakes and perceived "values". Even Sammon makes a mistake in his book on page 404 when, under "3) The Domestic Cut . . ." to the Embassy version on he states: "Disc 1, Side 1, Chapter 9: Chew's visitors (Director's Cut)". It is obvious that he was discussing the DOMESTIC cut and NOT the "Director's Cut". The "director's cut" did not surface until 1992, and he specifically refers to "The Director's Cut" by that phrase in the subsection No. 5 heading. Unfortunately, Sammon used "DC" (which is now almost exclusively used to denote "director's cut" in shorthand) to refer to "domestic cut" in comparing the various versions, and even HE probably became was confused for a moment.

Regards,

Sam

 

[Michael Reuben]

I agree that it's getting tedious, Sam. I'm sure there's a point buried in your posts somewhere, but I just can't figure out what it is.

M.