Bjoern: JP3 dts Lower LFE Level

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Basil AJ, Dec 23, 2001.

  1. Basil AJ

    Basil AJ Auditioning

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    Saturday night, finished watching JP3, and was pleasantly surprised overall. I listened to the dts track right off the bat. But when I was fooling around with extras tonight, I figured I'd try the DD track for the heck of it. Well, blow me down! The LFE bass was louder! I thought: Oh no! Not another problem with JP dts soundtracks!
    A simple test with my trusty Radio Shack SPL meter set to fast response shows that dts5.1 LFE is 5-7dB LOWER than DD5.1. Just listen to rumbles in the opening logos for Universal, Amblin Ent., and JP3 Title.
    I also have the original JP1⓽ dts that are both 5-7dB bass deficient. Now that makes 3 JP movies with the same damn problem. Reading about the length of time people experience to get the re-pressed JP1 (D2R2 on spindle), I think I'm just going to hold on to all my JP DVDs and just adjust the LFE 7dB and let it rip. It is as easy as that.
    I need confirmation in the form of graphical charts from those who have the means to verify this. It is also noteworthy that some dts decoders behave different than others when handling dts and it's -10dB LFE bias. I have a Pioneer VSX-D608 dts Receiver fed by a Philips DVD-825AT DVD player, pumping sound into a Paradigm Mini Monitor x4, LCR-350 Center, and PW-2200 Sub.
     
  2. Roby Adams

    Roby Adams Stunt Coordinator

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    Help us Bjoern Roy! You're our only hope.
     
  3. Sean Oneil

    Sean Oneil Supporting Actor

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    That is strange... I own the original JP DTS version with the anemic bass track, and the LFE track on JP III DTS is miles ahead of the original JP DTS to my ears.

    -Paging Mr. Roy
     
  4. Basil AJ

    Basil AJ Auditioning

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    Just to simplify the situation, I need to remind everyone that this is NOT a comparison between JP1 and JP3 dts LFE. Only JP3 dts vs. DD5.1 LFE.

    I need to correct myself about JP2, after reading Bjoern's review at his website. JP2 is NOT LFE deficient. Just the original JP1 dts, and quite possibly now JP3.
     
  5. Jon D

    Jon D Stunt Coordinator

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    If your receiver has the ability, pump the DTS LFE level all the way up. Some amps have it set at -10 by default.
     
  6. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    No there isn't any meaningful difference between DD and DTS on JP III on my set up!Just took some measurments with my RS meter at my seat.They both clocked the same reading.

    As Jon said check your LFE setting wich can be different from the DD one,and the reason you have such large deviations from one track to another.

    There is nothing wrong with the DTS track that's for sure!
     
  7. Bjoern Roy

    Bjoern Roy Second Unit

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    Hi folks,

    sorry for the lack of participation over the last few weeks. On top of being busy, i was on a vacation trip.

    JP3 is already on my list to measure as soon as possible.

    Regards

    Bjoern
     
  8. Basil AJ

    Basil AJ Auditioning

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    If you want to measure the bass in the opening logos, setup your equipmet to route all bass to the sub. Set all your speakers as SMALL, just like Bjoern does in his tests... That is how my booskelf system is setup full time. And use the FAST setting on the sound level meter. Look for the PEAK level. I know the difference in bass is real, but not as high as 10dB so it is not the processor. My Paradigm PW-2200 doesn't lie when it tells me that the dts LFE is about 6dB lower than DD5.1.

    Bjoern, I hope JP3 is on the top of list now that the trilogy is marred by doubts about its dts sound. And by the way, keep up the good work, it is excellent!
     
  9. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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  10. Basil AJ

    Basil AJ Auditioning

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    That's cool. FYI, I can adjust the LFE level anywhere from -10 to +10 dB with my Pioneer. In addition, I have calibrated the DD5.1 LFE output level with AVIA and it is good at -5 dB trim in the processor and just 35% on the sub's own Amp control. Now if I need to crank it up, I have over 15dB to go with my processor, and another 65% pure AMP juice. My Paradigm PW-2200 peaks at 750W or 250W RMS and is flat between 15Hz-45Hz in my L-shaped big room. This is not a pissing contest about bass. You'll be surprised how little you need in a well calibrated setup/room.

    As I said before, I am perfectly fine with bumping the LFE trim, I just need to know if that is needed, and by how much. It looks like I need about 6dB more for the dts track.
     
  11. Basil AJ

    Basil AJ Auditioning

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    Ok, just did some more analysis. Until Master Roy gets a chance to verify this, here are my findings:

    [1] Using non-bassy plain dialog segments Ch7 (LFE turned way down as well), I measured DD5.1 with -4dB DialNorm, so you need to bump the volume level by 4dB so DD5.1 is level with dts5.1.

    [2] Using bassy opening logos Ch1 and Dino Duel sequences Ch6 for bass measurements, I measured dts5.1 with -6dB LFE offset compared to DD5.1. Compensating with LFE trim resulted in almost equal LFE responses in the Dino Duel sequence Ch7. However, dts LFE was more dynamic in the Logos Ch1.

    YMMV, and I can hardly wait for the real analyses straight from the DVD into the plotting program.
     
  12. William Ward

    William Ward Supporting Actor

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    from Spaceballs:

    "Oh....no. Not again!"
     
  13. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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  14. Basil AJ

    Basil AJ Auditioning

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    Does your Denon also compensate for the -4dB volume difference between DD5.1 and dts5.1 of Titan A.E. as well? That is another soundtrack where dts was generally louder by 4dB except dts LFE was 4dB lower when compared at reference loudness levels with DD LFE for Titan A.E. (according to my basic SPL fast-response peak readings).
     
  15. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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  16. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    Bjoern,

    Did you ever get a chance to measure this? Thanks.
     
  17. Bjoern Roy

    Bjoern Roy Second Unit

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    Dave,

    no i didn't. I will probably go into another SPL measurement frenzy soon, but i want to measure as many titles as possible 'in one session', because the setup of the equipment and cables is quite time consuming. Once i am actually running, it doesn't really matter whether i measure 5 or 10 titles.

    So maybe i should start a thread where people can suggest candidates for analysis.

    Regards

    Bjoern
     
  18. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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  19. Sean Oneil

    Sean Oneil Supporting Actor

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    Bjoern, how bout' adding Atlantis DTS to your list [​IMG]
     
  20. Oscar

    Oscar Second Unit

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    I didnt have problems with the bass in the DTS track of JP3, it sounded downright superior to the Dolby track[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     

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