Birds of Prey - Season Premiere 10/9/02

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by DeathStar1, Oct 9, 2002.

  1. DeathStar1

    DeathStar1 Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2001
    Messages:
    3,267
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hope no one minds a thread started about the first episode.

    Spoilers ahead..



    This is my first foray into the world of "Birds of Prey". I knew nothing about it going in, and know very little about it going out. My guess is, the dissapearance of Batman and the Joker are gong to be season ending Cliffhangers, getting people like me to keep on tuning in.

    On it's own, it was an interesting show. It's nice to hear Mark Hamill as the Joker again. Good choice. Too bad they don't let him don the character itself and focus an episode on him.

    It'll be interesting to see where this series goes...
     
  2. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    38,680
    Likes Received:
    452
    Here's a link to the pre-premiere discussion on BoP.
    I am not overwhelmed by the Mia Sara casting choice as Harlequin. You could tell her scenes with Ashley Scott (Huntress) were definitely recently shot (Scott's hair was different).
    There were some minor differences between the pilot episode that was floating around cyberspace for the past couple of months, and the official episode:
    1. Voiceover by Alfred at the very beginning is new. The pilot also was longer in the setup of Batgirl getting shot at home, plus there was a lot of exposition via a newscast on the TV that was on in Barbara's place right after she gets out of the shower, and gets brutally shot and crippled by the Joker.
    2. The initial scene with Barbara and the new teacher is brand new (the original pilot had Barbara and another guy on the street, and Barbara wanted to push the guy away emotionally). The way it played out, the audience thinks that Barbara is open to a new relationship for the near future.
    3. The scenes between Harley and Helena are new, and the pilot didn't have Helena giving away so many details of her life to the court-appointed shrink, Harley. I much prefer the original scene with Sherilyn Fenn. Oh well.
    4. Some of the music score is different. Thankfully they changed the even cheesier music that was playing when Helena and Larry were fighting inside Helena's mind at the end.
    5. When Harley kicks Larry in his cell at Arkham Asylum, the original pilot had a much better, crisper, more potent kick by Harley's kick double. I felt sorry for the stunt double that had to get kick once more for the re-shoot with Mia Sara in the Harley role for this scene.
    Maybe it's just me, but Rachel Skarsten sounds a bit like Kristin Kreuk (Lana Lang in Smallville) in some of her scenes.
    Gotta love the "meteor rocks" line when they were discussing "metahumans" during Dinah's brain scan scene.
    I don't know how good the rest of the season will be, but I'll stick with it for now.
     
  3. Inspector Hammer!

    Inspector Hammer! Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 1999
    Messages:
    11,061
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    Real Name:
    John Williamson
    Like Neil, i'm new to this particular facit of the Batman saga, i've never even laid eyes on the comics of BoP. I really enjoyed the first episode and found it very intriguing. It has the potential I think to be a hit, providing it stays clear of the same dark and brooding atmosphere that brought down Dark Angel.
    I have a couple of questions though, does she know that Batman was her father? I wasn't clear on this. Will we get to see the Joker or Batman again besides in flashbacks? Finally, will she ever get a better outfit, I didn't care for the one she was wearing.
    I found it really strange that Batman just split after the death of his wife, I never thought of Batman ever doing something like that. It was refreshing though I must admit. Did anyone check out Mia Sara!? [​IMG] I tell ya, she certaintly has changed since her Ferris Bueller's Day Off days, now she looks like Anne Hesch! Not the young beauty I remember her as. OTOH she looks like she'll be a great villian.
    It has my attention, so i'll keep watching. Good show. [​IMG]
     
  4. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2001
    Messages:
    17,351
    Likes Received:
    1,936
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    After they butchered the hell out of the opening with the Alfred monologue, I was fearing the worst. Aside from that, it was clear sailing. I actually prefer Mia Sara as Haley Quinn... at the end when she's in the tank with Ketterly, she really goes for it with the Harley Quinn persona... you could defineately see her in the jester outfit once upon a time... not so much with Sherilyn Fenn.

    Also notable was the new flash from the rooftop battle on Batman Returns... this had previously been in the ads but not the episode. Cool touch. Wish they would have left the opening alone though. The TV playing in the background added some cool exposition.
     
  5. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    38,680
    Likes Received:
    452
    Yes, Helena knows that her father is/was Batman. Her second scene with Harley basically spells it out.

    This series is set quite a number of years into the future (like 15 years or more from the start of Batman's career, that's my guess). It takes a lot of liberties with the characters, mainly the Huntress who has been turned into a metahuman for this show.

    No one should mistake the TV show for the current comic book series that it is loosely based upon.

    Dinah may or may not ever develop the sonic abilities of her "Black Canary" character from the comics. Plus (just speculating) it might turn out that the teenage Dinah is the daughter of the original Dinah Lance, AKA Black Canary, who was an expert in hand-to-hand combat, and very tough, and earlier incarnations had her possessing a sonic cry that would render most of her adversaries deaf and discombobulated temporarily. The teenage Dinah might have been given up for adoption by the original Dinah Lance. Who knows...
     
  6. Rob M.

    Rob M. Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2002
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    I could really do without the cat screeching during the Huntress' fight scenes. Other than that, I was pretty happy with the episode. Of course, I'll watch the show no matter what. I can't get enough of Dina Meyer.
     
  7. Peter McM

    Peter McM Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 1999
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    Real Name:
    Peter
    On one hand, I almost expected some sexier costumes (ala Black Scorpion). On the other, some surprisingly good character establishments. Helena was quite believable and sympathetic.

    This show may actually make it past the first dozen episodes.

     
  8. MikeAlletto

    MikeAlletto Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2000
    Messages:
    2,369
    Likes Received:
    0
    I thought it was really good. I knew nothing about it except that batman fled for some reason and catwoman was dead. Is the Joker really dead? Do you think they'll try and bring in Batman for an episode here and there...maybe not as a major part but kinda hidden in the shadows kind of thing?

    There were some cheesy parts (like the dumb cat screeching that Rob mentioned), but overall I thought it was pretty cool.
     
  9. Jason Seaver

    Jason Seaver Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    9,306
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear sweet lord, that sucked. There wasn't one scene that didn't feel cloyingly artificial, and I wanted to strangle Helena about ten minutes in. To a certain extent, I had the same problem with her that I had with the "Firefly" premiere - just because the writers can think of a wiseass remark for every line of dialogue, doesn't mean they have to use it. The exposition was also piled on pretty thick, and not only repeated itself, but overwhelmed the story. There really wasn't much need for this to run long.

    I'm hoping that it's just a case of the pilot being awkward, but I'm not sure; there's too many things that seem not right about it. There are too many superheroes running around for Tim Burton-esque look to work (do they all go to the same costume shop?), and I wasn't sure how old Dinah was supposed to be - I had her pegged at 17 or 18, so was thrown by Babs's telling her she had to go to school. And Harley - aside from Mia Sara not having aged well at all, she's just a total blank, like a placeholder until a more interesting character comes along.

    Bleh. I suppose it was marginally better than the week's "Twilight Zone", but certainly won't bump "The Amazing Race" off the good recording device.
     
  10. Tom Keels

    Tom Keels Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 1999
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree Jason. Complete cheese. From the stupid costumes, to the low production values, to the "high tech" gadgets,(the neon frisbee and glasses were my favorites). I felt like I was watching an episode of Mutant X with the damn cat screeching. And can anyone say that Huntress actually did anything? 2 fight scenes, one that was in her mind. They took the idea of a great villan (Scarecrow) and nutered it.

    It almost looks like they made this show strictly for syndication. I expected more from the folks that brought us the excellent show that is Smallville.

    I will say this. The character setups were very good. At least we know a great deal about what happened AB (after Batman). This show has one more chance to redeem itself. If it can't, I'm gone. Much better shows on Wednesday than this.
     
  11. ChadM

    ChadM Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2000
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    0
    I taped this (out of town with no WB) and will weigh in on it this weekend. My wife did say that it looked cool, however she was concerned about choosing between Fastlane, BoP and the Bachelor on Wednesday. I told her that two of those shows will likely be gone sooner than later.
     
  12. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    38,680
    Likes Received:
    452
    Dinah is around 15-16 years old (or younger, like 14). She's got about 2-3 years of high school to look forward to.
     
  13. Andy Sheets

    Andy Sheets Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2000
    Messages:
    2,371
    Likes Received:
    1
    Count me as another one that disliked it. I very much liked Barbara and Dinah (well, I've always quite liked Dina Meyer), but Ashley Scott immediately rubbed me the wrong way as Helena and never recovered from that, and it's not because the character is supposed to be edgy either. Mia Sara...yikes. And I just really didn't care for the general design of the show. I've grown to dislike that overstylized "check it out, it's like a comic book!" look that the Batman movies popularized, and the show just proved that I still dislike it. The final nail in the coffin was the cat screeching. Killed the fight scenes dead. I don't think I'll be giving the show a second chance any time soon.
     
  14. florence franks

    florence franks Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 1999
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    0
    Question is did anyone actually to watch this in its entiredy?
    12 mins in, having realised I was loosing IQ pt for every min of this travesty I quickly turned it off. Besides feel alot dumber I want my 12mins back too [​IMG]
     
  15. Jason Seaver

    Jason Seaver Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    9,306
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  16. Peter McM

    Peter McM Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 1999
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    Real Name:
    Peter
    Yes, florence, Some like me stuck it out to the end. But must admit my mind kept giong back to that tight number Ashley Scott wore in AI. (Oops--there's that costume thing, again.)[​IMG]
     
  17. MickeS

    MickeS Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    5,058
    Likes Received:
    1
    I have about 15 minutes left to watch of the show, but so far I like it.
    A couple of things I thought of while watching it:
    1. Why does Helena have "superpowers"? Her mom and dad didn't have any powers, right? Did they explain this? One thing I've always enjoyed about Batman is that they're all "regular people" (well, somewhat [​IMG]).
    2. The cast looks a LOT better in the show than in the promo stills. The stills I saw even made Dina Meyer look bad, I didn't understand how that was even possible. Even Mia Sara looks OK in the show, especially compared to that horrible promo pic.
    3. There's is just WAY too much of a "Dark Angel" vibe in this thing: young, "dark" chick with catlike superpowers fighting crime, aided/led by a wheelchairbound partner equipped with high-tech gadgets, watching over the city from high above... are Helena and Barbara going to be a couple too? [​IMG] I hope they don't make the mistake that "Dark Angel" did and just focus on one main storyline.
    4. The "high tech" stuff was as bad as DA, it looks both like I could buy it at Radio Shack and like it's too implausible to work...
    I'll be back later when I've finished watching it all.
     
  18. Jeff Kleist

    Jeff Kleist Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 1999
    Messages:
    11,267
    Likes Received:
    0
    I only saw bits and pieces, but what I saw was BAD. The huntresses constant jaguar noises REALLY was pissing me off.

    Not watching this travesty again. Even Mutant X is better than the shit I saw
     
  19. Christopher Cheadle

    Christopher Cheadle Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 1999
    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    0
    Was hit or miss for me. There was some definate cheeze going on in there. Anyone think the whole "secret identity" thing in this show is even worse than the whole Clark Kent/Superman thing (which I can buy for the most part)? I mean to say that Babs makes a comment early on about having a secret identity to Helena and then when she goes off to be Huntress the only thing that has changed is her outfit and that knecklace she put on. The citizens of New Gotham must be completely low on the IQ scale if they can't figure that one out.

    In either case, there were moments that I liked and disliked. I will probably give this one a couple more weeks before I make any lasting decisions.
     
  20. Michael St. Clair

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    6,001
    Likes Received:
    0
    My beef is with the writing, and that's how I felt after the original pilot.

    A lot of other things could use some tuning, but the writing has got to get WAY better.

    I'll watch for a few more episodes and give it a chance to improve.
     

Share This Page