Big Super Audio Update at HiFi Show 2003! (1 Viewer)

[Rich Malloy]

Unnecessary and impolite ranting deleted... :b

 

[Justin Lane]

 

[Rich Malloy]

More rubbish for the bin... :b

 

[Justin Lane]

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

Those of us in the music business that work on recordings and see the incredible stupidity of the majors know how important unit sales are for catalog titles. All Sony has to provide is some strong evidence that more people are buying in part due to the hirez layer (which has got to be true in this case) and the labels will take notice. DSOTM is real evidence of that.

Again, there is NO proof that anyone is buying for the hi res layer, other than in your imagination, and in Sony's marketing department. This could easily have sold the same without it, based on the 23 million plus units the album has generated in its history. Even if there are people buying for the SACD layer, you have no evidence whatsoever that the increase is even statistically relevant.

 

[Rich Malloy]

True enough, Jeff. But when I buy a DVD-A title, as I did last week with Frank Zappa's "Halloween"*, do you think DTS Ent. (or Warner Bros, etc.) really cares that I'm only accessing the DTS or DD track? (For the time being, of course.)

I'm not saying it wouldn't be of interest for them to know who and how many are utilizing the DVD-A track compared to the DTS/DD tracks, but sales are sales. Just as those of us who don't have DVD-Audio players can access the DTS/DD tracks of DVD-A discs with our DVD-Video players, so too can those without SACD players access the CD tracks on SACDs in their CD or DVD players. Neither format can state with certainty how many consumers are purchasing discs for the hi-res layer, and that's just as true for DVD-A as for SACD. The waters are muddy, but equally so on both sides (except, of course, for the single layer SACDs which can only be enjoyed on a SACD player).

*Frank Zappa "Halloween"--I'm thoroughly enjoying this disc. Even if you don't have a DVD-Audio player, it's worth it for the DTS layer. Trust me. A great collection of music, wonderfully and seamlessly edited, and with gorgeous sound. HFR's review of this title is right on the money: http://www.highfidelityreview.com/re...umber=12353548

And I certainly hope my purchase of this disc "counts", even though I can't yet access the hi-res layer, because I want more new Zappa discs just like this!

 

[Justin Lane]

I typed that my last post would be it for this thread...I lied:b

After thinking about what I typed regarding Brian Moura's reporting techniques, I realize I was a bit harsh. While he seems to simply pass on what he is told by various SACD outlets, this is not necessarily a bad thing. He does provide useful information on upcoming releases on HFR and his own website. My main issue is that at times I wish he would take the hard line when dealing with certain subjects. However, if he took such a stance, he probably would not receive the scoops and insight he now provides. In the end he provides a very nice service to audio community, and if he is unpaid as mentioned earlier, he should be commended even further.

In the grand scheme of things, audio news is only a big deal to a very small group of people posting here and on a couple other boards. Sometimes I would like to see the reporters take more of what I would call a journalistic approach, but such an approach would leave us even more in the dark.

J

 

[LanceJ]

THIS kind of misleading statement is what causes many here to get upset:

Lee said:

When Meridian discusses hirez PCM, is Stuart going to say "but isn't the faster sampling rate of DSD capturing transients better?"

That highlighted section is the misleading part: DSD uses a ONE bit word format, whereas dvd-audio uses a MULTIBIT word format. You cannot directly compare them using sampling rates--i.e. apples/oranges--as this article graphically illustrates. Those waveforms sure look 99.9% identical to me (except for the fuzziness).

LJ

 

[Rich Malloy]

And I was too harsh in my response to you about Brian, Justin. Please accept my apologies.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Sometimes I would like to see the reporters take more of what I would call a journalistic approach, but such an approach would leave us even more in the dark.

I have no problem with that Justin, but HFR is a small site that may want to serve a "news only" role as its strategy may involve not wanting to upset any major players in the business so it can keep a steady flow of scoops and announcements coming. I think Brian's questions though do indicate some probing of Crest on his part.

Perhaps HFR could add a weekly (or daily) editorial by one of its reporters or better yet the whole editorial board so no one gets singled out for retribution. That way some would be free to speculate on important issues on both sides-DVDA and SACD.

 

[Justin Lane]

No problem Rich, accept my apologies as well. Let's just enjoy the music. These new releases coming to SACD are great news.

I think I am just a bit cranky after my copy of DSOTM has developed three cracks recently.

J

 

[Lee Scoggins]

That highlighted section is the misleading part

Lance, your comments are what people get upset about...you are taking those comments out of the context of acting as a counterexample to what Brian is accused of doing.

 

[Justin Lane]

Perhaps HFR could add a weekly (or daily) editorial by one of its reporters or better yet the whole editorial board so no one gets singled out for retribution. That way some would be free to speculate on important issues on both sides-DVDA and SACD.

That we can agree on. I would love to have someone ask or comment on why Warner has put out less than 10 DVD-A titles for the first half of the year, or why Sony is sitting on a number of their large catalog titles? Of course such questions would get little to "no reponse", but at least we could have some conjecture of some sort from those a little more in the loop.

J

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

Since I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that Brian Moura is a trusted source for SACD news (not commentary, not comparisons with other formats, just news), which is all he was claimed to be in the initial post (the word "most" may have been pushing it, but not so much that it deserved a thread hijack), I can't quite figure out why I am on the fourth page of a SACD vs. DVD-A media bias donnybrook. Don't we have other threads for that?

In any case, I am glad that Steely Dan will be releasing material on SACD. Perhaps this could lead to a hi-res 2-channel Aja if they don't find the missing multi-tracks.

I have also heard from Harry Weinger over at the Motown board that the 5.1 mix for Marvin Gaye's "Let's Get it On" is being overseen by the album's original mixing engineer, Cal Harris.

Regards,

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Of course such questions would get little to "no reponse", but at least we could have some conjecture of some sort from those a little more in the loop.

I would like to see that as well. One might even get a guest editorial from David Kawakami or another Sony rep.

 

[LanceJ]

Lee: out of context? No, I make sure I DON'T do that when I quote people so I will not be drawn into some anal-retentive tit-for-tat discussion.

LJ

 

[LanceJ]

Rich said:

Neither format can state with certainty how many consumers are purchasing discs for the hi-res layer, and that's just as true for DVD-A as for SACD.

Presently, dvd-audio discs have no CD layer, so the ONLY reason a person buys a dvd-audio title is either for the multichannel mix or the hi-res tracks: these are what the dvd-audio format is all about. Consequently, dvd-audio sales figures portray a truly accurate picture of its popularity--there is no ambiguity involved.

LJ

 

[Rich Malloy]

Not so, Lance.

I understand that your primary interest is in the multichannel mixes, but I think you do a disservice to the significance of the hi-resolution tracks.

Every DVD-A disc I purchase is, for me, nothing more than the equivalent of a DVD-Video mix or a DTS CD... I can't access the hi-res layers because I don't yet have the hardware. You say this doesn't matter, but consider this: if the consumer is not buying DVD-A discs for the hi-res layer, then why put a hi-res layer on the disc at all? Why sell DVD-Audio players if everything they have to offer, all that distinguishes them, is already playable on existing DVD-Video players?

Basically it comes down to this: if the studios and hardware manufacturers don't think it matters whether consumers are buying DVD-As for the hi-resolution tracks, or that no one's buying them for the hi-resolution tracks, then why not just release DVD-Vs with DTS and Dolby Digital tracks and do away with the DVD-A format altogether? After all, what does DVD-A have to offer that DVD-V and DTS CD don't? Nothing but the high resolution track!

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Lee: out of context? No

Lance,

I think you need to reread my posts herein. In this example, I was suggesting the damage to be done by holding the DVDA reporter to the same standard discussed for the SACD reporter. I was not discussing the pluses or minuses of either format.

By the way, the 10Khz graph you refer to (and refer to a lot whenever the subject arises) was developed by someone who works at Warner. In any event, this test does not really address transient response completely anyway. Transient response also involves multiple tones overlaid just as you get from real musicians playing...

 

[Emil Stoica]

Geez, when did this place become the Audio Asylum?

Sure Brian only presents SACD stories, that is because that is what he wants to do. It is not like he is getting rich doing it. It is a passion for him. If any of you are so upset about his style, why don't you go out and start our own website and start submiting articles to High Fidelity Review?