Big Brother 22-31cs vs Little Brothers 20-39cs+

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by BobAlbano, Mar 8, 2002.

  1. BobAlbano

    BobAlbano Second Unit

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    I am currently the proud owner of a 20-39cs+/Samson combo. When I bought my sub a couple of months ago I took some serious flack from my brother who is a Mirage die-hard. He kept rambling about his Mirage sub and why would you want to pay that much for a sub and have it be so big? Let me tell you that it took playing Titan A.E. one time at a little below Ref level to answer his questions. B/C of the Spot group buy I was able to get him a 25-31cs/Samson combo. I opted for the 22hrz tune for him. What a nice guy I am huh? Getting to make the decisions on what sub to get him really made this like my own purchase. [​IMG] He received the Amp on Wednesday and the Sub yesterday. I felt like a father telling his son he can't open his gifts until Christmas. I told him that I would come over after work and help him set it up as he doesn't have a sound meter or Avia. I stopped at home to pickup the goodies filled with test DVD that would be sure to make his mouth drop. After about 10 minutes of hooking everything up and getting his Denon 3802 calibrated I popped in U-571. We went to the standard Depth Charge scene and I couldn't believe what I was hearing and seeing. This thing was shaking his pictures on the wall. Next I popped in SW:TPM and it was pod race time. He kept asking me what that noise was went the pods flew by, you know that wierd bass that you don't really hear or feel with another sub. The 22-31 passed the test with no problems. By the way I have the sub calibrated to about 3db hot. New was the ultimate test! I was sure that this would be the DVD that would show the weakness of the CS version. Toy Story 2! I can tell you that there is just one word to describe my feeling "amazed"! I was amazed that this little cs 22-31 could shake the floors and rattle the glass at this magnitude. I took a reading at the sweet spot when the groud breaks apart and he was hitting about 110db's without the clipping light coming on. I was proud and jealous at the same time. Proud that the SVS had made me look good in his eyes and jealous that I couldn't remember if mine sounded that good. I quickly gathered my sound meter and told him that I had some things to do at home. Those things consisted of playing the 20-39cs+ to confirm that I still had more bass than him. I know but it's a little brother thing of always trying to out do your older brother. I popped in Titan A.E. the ice breaking scene and took some readings. 117db's at the sweet spot before the clipping light started to flicker! A smile came across my face as I realized that I was still one up on him! [​IMG]
     
  2. Jeff Brink

    Jeff Brink Stunt Coordinator

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    Bob,

    Great story! Wish I had a big brother like you. I'm anxiously awaiting the 22-31PCi, and like your brother, I also have the 3802. What other speakers does he run and what dimensions are his room? Since I am pretty new at this, and if you don't mind, I may tap into your expertise when setting up my system. My other speakers are all PSB Image Series (4Ts',8C,10s'and 1Bs'). Currently, everything is sitting in boxes as my room is about 2weeks away from completion. It's killing me! Anyway, it is nice to hear someone else out there is happy with close to the same set up. Feel better about all of my purchases, if you know what I mean. Once again, great story.
     
  3. Greg Br

    Greg Br Second Unit

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    Bob

    >117db's at the sweet spot before the clipping light started to flicker! A smile came across my face as I realized that I was still one up on him!

    How much over your reference level did you have to go to reach the 117db's?
     
  4. BobAlbano

    BobAlbano Second Unit

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    I believe that I was about 2or 3 dbs below Ref as I am running my sub about 4db's hot.
     
  5. Greg Br

    Greg Br Second Unit

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    Thanks,

    but just to make sure I am understanding, you have calibrated than set your master volume 2 or 3db's below that volume, say reference was 00 on your master volume and you were listening to it at -3 master volume and then that produced the 117db's?

    Not doubting just looking for a comparison to my setup/
     
  6. BobAlbano

    BobAlbano Second Unit

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    Jeff, he has mirage speakers that are about 7 years old so I don't know what series they are. I calabrated everything to about -10 dbs below ref which is 75 dbs for the speakers and the sub to 76 which ends up at about 4db hot. He has a room that I would say is about 2000 cubic feet. I played around with the crossover on his denon and decided to set it at 100hrz vs 80hrz. The mirage speakers that he has only have 5.25's in them so that was part of my reasoning in setting the crossover a little higher. Good luck with your system.
     
  7. BobAlbano

    BobAlbano Second Unit

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    I calabrated to Ref at 85 dbs with my receiver setting at 65. The sub at 65 is reading 86 on the sound meter so that means that it is a about 4 db hot or 90. I was listening at I think 68 or so so I was actually a couple db's above Ref. I believe that TV said that if you are running all your speakers on small you need to be able to hit 121 dbs for ref playback so I'm not quite there. I think that it was 115db's with your fronts set to large. I was a little confused on that so if anyone can clear that up it would help. My room is approx 1450 cubic feet and I have eq'ed my sub to get a +/- 3.5dbs from 20-100 hrz.
     
  8. Greg Br

    Greg Br Second Unit

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    Bob,

    So would you say if I was running dual 20-39cs with a Samson amp calibrated to reference, then at reference level playback my subs were only hitting 92db's max that there may be a problem.
     
  9. Jeff Brink

    Jeff Brink Stunt Coordinator

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    Bob,

    Thanks for the input. All of my PSB's have 5.25's as well so I will remember to play with the crossover. I appreciate the response and I will stay in touch.
     
  10. BobAlbano

    BobAlbano Second Unit

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    How big is your room? Do you have the subs in the same corner or different? I'm able to hit 117db peaks in my room with a single. They say that adding another sub is a additional 6dbs of headroom so that should get me to 123 before clipping if I'm correct. I would say that in my IMHO there is a problem if you are only hitting 92db's and the amp is clipping with dual 20-39cs+'s. Have you talked to Tom or Ron about this?
     
  11. Greg Br

    Greg Br Second Unit

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    I know there is a problem and so does SVS, I have been comunicating with them. I am so frustrated it is not even funny.
    The problem is I had been using a cheap amp and getting great bass until it crapped out and then switched to the Samson and know I can calibrate but the bass just is not there. I was easily hitting 115db's on the THX TPM[​IMG]intro, last night it measured 92db's.
    Talking about this with HTF is just some sort of theraputic physcology for me. It sucks not having SVS subs but it a hell of a lot worse to have SVS and then lose them [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  12. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    1)121dB for reference doesn't mean until you see the SPL meter hit 121dB...you ain't got things right.

    this is the max output possible if all 6 channels have extreme amptitude signal on them simultaneously...and you have all the bass routed to the sub(s).

    2)if it's low bass...and you are using a RS meter...it's going to be anywhere from 2-6dB low.

    TV
     
  13. BobAlbano

    BobAlbano Second Unit

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    Thanks for clearing that up for me Tom. Let me confirm that I have this right. If I have all the speakers set to small I need to be able to hit 121 db's for full ref playback. Seeing as my rat shack meter is anywhere from 2-6 db's off I could actually be at ref levels with my one 20-39cs+. REF level or not this thing shakes the house and I recommend SVS to everyone who is looking for a sub. [​IMG]
     

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